Which way do you blow? Objectively speaking.

Posted by EgoPriest 7 years, 8 months ago to Culture
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Not to start a flame war (I'm sure we can all be civilized), but I think it an issue of vital import to the efficacy of our political will and might as "Objectivists."

I would like to know (if you are willing to enter the fray), are you primarily or exclusively with ARI, The Atlas Society, some other? Or perhaps you see yourself as an equal opportunity consumer of Objectivism (I myself, though always exclusively ARI/Charles Tew like Dr. Hicks quite a bit, but on Nietzsche and Postmodernism not Objectivism (he holds another view).

So this is just about the meta-principle of systematic unity, all or nothing integration vs. ____ (I'll let you fill in the blank).


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  • Posted by 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "If you do it right," aye, there's the rub!

    Then you are a "Truthist" not an "Objectivist." Which is fine if you're honest enough to admit it. You can be a fine ally on a myriad of social issues. Mine is to convert you and others here to that method, that Aristotlean-devised mechanism of integration that powers our knowledge of all things that are true without extraction or or crypto-contrarian contradiction. There is no space for pluralism (or time for monism) in Objectivism if Ayn Rand's Revolution is to stand a chance of success in changing the culture (let alone your mind -- the one is an extension of the other, which way is up to you): https://youtu.be/hhwDQBVYuH8

    Not to sound like a rationalist, but in my (and Ayn Rand's) view, her philosophy is a systematic integration of a specific set of principles that may be legitimately applied in limitless ways. That only works to define your existence on earth by being limited to the system she set forth in its entirety.

    You have a different (pluralistic) "truth." Or a reification of something "outside" to be "open" to. I get that. I've had the ad hoc mentality myself driving my mental "hodgepodge." But homey don't play that game anymore. Now it's time to get focused, serious, integrated within the fortress of your soul if you want to be part of Ayn Rand's Cultural Revolution, in the "eye of the storm" as it were.

    You can do it by an act of will, by turning your mind off (for a time) from everything else once you've seen the truth of my argument:

    https://youtu.be/gkXlg0ypjqg
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  • Posted by $ jdg 7 years, 8 months ago
    I don't belong to any ideological organization these days; I'm just an independent, mostly libertarian, but I've been a fan of Rand for decades and have all of her books.

    I view most aspects of life through the lens of economics, meaning I judge any proposed policy by what behaviors it will reward or punish; and I have great, but not total faith in Adam Smith's invisible hand.

    I am active on other forums too, but come here because it is an island of sanity.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 8 months ago
    Good for you. I've been in the fray for years, debating and demonstrating only to look behind me and to see no one there. Talk is cheap. Talk without action is cheaper. I'd join you but I'm an infirm old fart.If I can help while sitting at my desk, count me in.
    By the way, Ms. Rand excoriated Nietzsche but never made a big deal of it.
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 8 months ago
    I have to say that I pretty much think about and decide what I should do, and then DO it. I think philosophy isnt of much benefit unless it can be practically applied in one's life.

    In the end, I suppose what matters is what one DOES. If the decisions are based on pure emotion, they are likely to be the wrong decisions. Collectivists I think make this mistake and then use collectivism to justify what they already did.
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  • -1
    Posted by 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    PS. Prepare to endure another "cleansing" if you hang around me long enough.

    I'm trying to carry out -- not "a flame war" -- but "a controlled burn."

    Benevolently,

    B-)
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 7 years, 8 months ago
    I'm not a fan of rigid ideology, and I don't think Ayn herself was. If anything, her personal writings were criticisms of how people are prevented from doing what is in their best interest by ideologues. Some of the disputes over the relative purity of one or another school's form of Objectivism reminds me of the old Vatican arguments on how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

    If I do something for someone else it's because I believe they are worthy of my help. I don't tolerate whiners or the self-absorbed, but I do support those who have a downturn because of the actions of others against them, or because the forces of nature (illness, natural catastrophe, etc.) work against their own efforts on their own behalf.

    A real Objectivist doesn't waste time pontificating or seeking converts like a religionist. Rather we gain support and interest from our actions and success as an example.
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  • Posted by BiggestShoelaces 7 years, 8 months ago
    Objectivism isn't about which person we believe, objectivism is about what is true. In everything we must examine the metaphysical reality of it, come to understand the epistemology of why that concept exists. If you do it right, you will have no contradictions and sound, realistic foundational premises.
    The Rothbard Ancaps were a former sect of objectivism, and the people that follow them today only follow, they do not think for themselves. This is the result of abandoning the philosophy and picking sides and following your favourites.
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  • Posted by 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thanks for that story. It paints a pretty picture.

    I sometimes wonder what would have become of me had my first Objectivist friend in the early "90s not led me away from what I call "the hangers-on."

    And I'll agree with you that those individuals you mention are moral...but dishonest.

    (A...but non-A).
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  • Posted by mia767ca 7 years, 8 months ago
    I went thru the whole schism back in the 70s and endured the "cleansing"...became best friends with Nat Branden on my airline pilot layovers in L.A. as we would meet for lunch or evening cocktail when he was free...and know David Kelley, Stephen Hicks and many others I consider moral individuals...I am inclusive...although the Tea Party kicked me out for holding their intellectual feet to the fire...
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  • Posted by 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That's basically it. There are institutions (e.g., The Jefferson School, The Ayn Rand Institute, the Atlas Society, et al) that promote (or claim to promote) Objectivism and post many videos on their Youtube channels that are worth watching or listening to (e.g., courses on How to Think by Dr. Peikoff).

    These various groups do not always agree with each other and sometimes outright disagree. It is for each reader of Ayn Rand to decide for themselves whether or not they agree with her philosophy in whole or in part and what that means for their involvement in promoting it or studying it.
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  • Posted by 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There's actually only one that qualifies. Others are departures from it. One in today.s world, the other of it.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 8 months ago
    I just read three of the books and liked them. I like the notion that humans should live for themselves. It's rude to other people to do things for their sake that you don't really want to do. Most people don't want that form of charity.

    I also like the notion that humans, living free, created personal freedom and wealth unthinkable to our ancestors. I have a hopeful notion of this continuing. In AS I see people unwilling to be denied. My reading is that great people are amazing, but people doing politics, living for some reaction in others undermines people's efforts to provide one another value in honest trades. If this gets bad enough, even the greatest person cannot overcome it.

    I am only vaguely aware that there are different schools of Objectivist thought. Many people who claim to be fans of Ayn Rand seem to take away exactly the opposite of what I took away from it, 180 degrees opposite.

    "Which way do you blow" sounds weird to my ear, but I think I got the meaning. :)
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 8 months ago
    Postmodernism is the virus that has taken our progressive upside down paradigm and turned it inside out and backwards...untangling that mess and what it's done to history will take a herculean effort.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 8 months ago
    I am totally integrated and do not favor the compartmentalization of any academic or philosophy by itself. Life, nature and existence itself is extraordinary diverse; there is no one language, one body of thought, that could explain it all...

    I don't "Believe" anything, I observe and I do so as objectively as humanly possible; for "There is some value in all things, good, bad and ugly, if only to recognize, that which is not." (The Fight for Conscious Human Life, author...yours truly).

    I am, however, a fan of Neothink (Mark Hamilton) for it was he that introduced me to Ayn Rand and Julian Jaynes. I am an active member of all three along with several scientific groups.
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  • Posted by 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thank you for your admission. I'll withhold judgement to give others a chance to speak. I really hope to learn something here.
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    Posted by mminnick 7 years, 8 months ago
    I think for myself and read almost anything on Objectivism. If I think it makes sence within my frame, I add it. If not I discard it.
    One should always keep an open mind and be ready to add new ideas and discard old when necessary.
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