That b*** (Ivy Starnes) is like more than one person I have met (as I recall, it usually was in school. Don't get me started on that subject). But Jeff Allen admits that he and the others voted for it. [Memory quote ("And what we asked for, we had it coming to us. By the time we saw what it was we had asked for, it was too late....And we weren't so innocent, either, back there..."] But at least he has the honesty to see and admit that it was wrong.

I kind of agree with you that its a habit that is formed. But I would say it happens when young and living in an environment where emotions are paramount and rationality is not as important. Once the habit is there, then we rationalize it through adopting collectivism as a moral standard

As to making the choice when "very young", I don't think that the choice is made just one time, once and forever; one may decide to be rational, but still one has to constantly keep making that choice, over and over, even on a cold winter day when one has to get out of bed, get dressed and go to work the hot dog cart, when one would prefer to go back to sleep, or rather than delaying it too long while listening to the radio.

I loved that scene when Dagney first entered the shanty town that remained around the old motor company factory. Ayn Rand's description of the people - the lady that looked twice her age, and the follow-on story of how people were paid by their needs...very impactful writing. I was upset that wasn't covered in the AS1 movie. As it approached, in the theater, I said to my wife, "Watch this...This is very interesting." Then, nothing burger...

...and that is science in America today, in a nutshell. I'm an engineer. And, as Dagney said, "When I see something, I see it." I have seen things covered up that you wouldn't believe. Not only that, and no offense, you wouldn't want to believe. Huge wakeup call for me several years ago. I, and at least one MIT mathematician, knows where it will lead. It's not good. I'll be in my own Gulch when the chickens come home to roost...

Galt's Address is my favorite moment in the book. He speaks to the creators, the innovators, the ones with the intellect, the vision and the courage to enter the arena and risk all. We forget that the founding fathers of the American Revolution despised and abhorred democracy. It had failed in Athens and would ultimately fail wherever it might be attempted. The dull, the greedy, the poor not of wealth but ability and integrity will always outnumber the men and women of true achievement, intellect and talent. The ballot box becomes an instrument of tyranny, the inevitable descent to the lowest denominator. The founding fathers rather saw a Republic that represented not only a majority of voters but every segment of society, every region. The nation was to be insulated from the passions of the mob, yet giving every citizen a voice, not a veto in the body politic. The system of checks and balances they created was designed to protect the numerical minority from the tyranny of the majority.

Their genius was to see men and women's rights and obligations as rooted in themselves, as individuals not as members of a class, a political philosophy, a race or religions affiliations. The tyranny of the few of over the majority was no less odious then then that of the majority over the few. The system of checks and balances they created was wisely crafted. Sadly that instrument has been corrupted in the name of greater "democracy" The Republic they envisioned still speaks to us. Their enduring legacy is to uphold the rights and liberty of the individual above all. my guess is Ayn Rand and Franklin would have been good company....

Henry at the trial was my favorite part of the film.
My second was Frisco on the Money the Root of all Evil speech at Jim's Wedding.

I disliked that we did not keep all the same actors in all three films, and we were not able to have them for 3 hours each.

Psychological projection is observed by almost all looting politicians, particularly demagogues the Clintons and Obama. Do they even realize they are doing it?

Dagny's speech on Bertram Scudder. I remember throwing my fist in the air in triumph when I first read (at 16 YO): "For two years I had been Hank Rearden's mistress. Let there be no misunderstanding of it: I am saying this, not as a shameful confession, but with the highest sense of pride. I had been his mistress. I had slept with him, in his bed, in his arms. There is nothing anyone might now say to you about me, which I will not tell you first.... Did I feel a physical desire for him? I did. Was I moved by a passion of my body? I was. Have I experienced the most violent form of sensual pleasure? I have. If this now makes me a disgraced woman in your eyes--let your estimate be your own concern. I will stand on mine." Utterly unexpected yet ruthlessly logical!

Define 'Psychological Projection'.
A theory in psychology in which the human ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others?
Bonus round.
'Narcissists' are renowned for using 'psychological projection' to blame other people, even when it is entirely apparent that they are the
Guilty.

"Now see here, all ya had to do," me dino scolded while wagging my index talon (allosaurs have 3 to an arm, T-Rex's 2), is to enter "dinosaur droppings" into the PC to see how to spell "coprolite." Me dino did not know the term because my own dropping aren't fossilized as yet."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprolite
My spell checker doesn't know coprolite either--just like allosaur.

Sorry I can't spell it, but its petrified dinosaur droppings.

I postulate that this choice takes place when very young, after seeing how parents and others deal with their emotions, and also after having experienced perhaps intense and frightening emotions resulting from treatment as a child.

Once it is decided that emotions are to be feared and cant be controlled or mitigated, one tends to adopt liberal ideas about "stronger together" and "political correctness" in an attempt to control their own emotions.

I have been looking for awhile now for the enduring and incredible attraction to collectivism, in the face of the fact that collectivism is a dismal failure over thousands of years, and even today in Venezuels. Perhaps it is indeed rooted in one's ability to deal with one's own emotions. Talk about individuality and rationality fall on deaf ears if the primary goal of ones life is to escape bad feelings and bask in good feelings however they can be had (drugs or otherwise)

It just didnt make sense to me that after all the work he did to "stop the motor of the world", he would help them torture him. Same with McCain, which is why I never considered him any sort of hero, but rather a self sacrificing whining manipulator who lived his life on whining about his "service".

I agree that none of the movie parts did justice to the book. Its such a great book that I felt like I was "there" already while reading it. A movie needs to distill a lot of the details so as to fit within the 2 hour typical window. I spent three days reading the book. Spielberg and other great directors know how to do this distilling, which is why they are great.

I will say that I read Jurassic Park after I saw the movie, and I could see that a LOT of the details were left out in the movie, including all the work that the Ingen people did to guarantee safety and efficiency in the process they used. It was essentially sabotage that was responsible for the problems, NOT some loosely worded thing about "life finds a way". It was their programmer who found a way, not the dinosaurs

I am surprised how often I quote that section of Atlas Shrugged while commenting on other boards. It seem so ubiquitous to many conversations.

That instruction from Galt would have contributed to the breakdown of James Taggert.

Yeah, but she thinks it is hopeless, and that Dagny is a "lonely victim" and is doomed as well.

Perhaps because he thinks they're such a bunch of incompetents, the torture cannot go on much
longer , so he can afford to tell them how to repair it.

I think I've been in situations like that (the one Ferris describes), as a kid in school, and on a certain job (where I had a boss that I thought was like Rearden, but turned out to be more to me like James Taggart). But I had read Atlas Shrugged, and knew how to spot it.

Probably it will be necessary to separate school and state first.

Emotions should be strong. But of course they should not take precedence over rationality. But man has free will about that.

Yeah, that's said by Dr. Floyd Ferris, one of the worst villains in the book; he wants to grab taxpayers' money to support his version of "science".

There is a sort of poetic justice in that Winston Tunnel incident; she implies that those passengers got what they deserved, or that at least there was "contributory negligence" on their part. (Of course, that could not apply to the children aboard.). There may be some poetic justice in that Luke Beal, the fireman, is the only one who survives--he is presented as an innocent, one who is not very intelligent, but who honestly doesn't know what the result will be (and is also good at his job, as far as it goes). Also, for the news broadcast about it, there has to be one survivor, I guess to tell what went on in the train; the screaming, and somebody pulling the emergency brake cord, etc.

I thought none of the parts came near doing justice to the book. The Wet Nurse didn't even get killed.I knew from a preview on the computer that Eddie Willers was going to be black, and I thought that was a mistake, because, given Eddie's complete subordination to Dagny, it would make him into an "Uncle Tom" stereotype; and also no need to offend black people without any reason.
I had thought, off an on, for years about what a movie of it would look like; I concluded that a mini-series would be better; that Winston Tunnel incident would have made a very good episode all by itself. For $300 plus an automatic typewriter, I could have written a much better script. Not bragging on myself as a writer, that main thing would have been in knowing what to keep and what to cut; since Ayn Rand had already done most of the work, most of it could have been written by doing straight copy from the book.