Two Oklahoma Citizens Killed an Active Shooter

Posted by CircuitGuy 3 years, 6 months ago to Philosophy
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This article is about how on May 24 two Oklahoma citizens shot a gunman who was shooting random people. I'm posting this under philosophy because one of the shooters had this quote:

"It is what it is. You’d better be damn sure that what you are doing is right, because you’ll pay the consequences if you are wrong."

The article says having armed citizens isn't that simple because the police and armed law abiding citizens sometimes shoot one another. It implies it would be simpler if only the police were armed. It would be simpler, but it undermines the reality that people are adults who established gov't and who have a right in matters of life and death to take some responsibility. It is is what it is. You'd better be damn sure that what you're doing is right, because you'll pay the consequences if you are wrong. That applies to everything in life, not just stopping a criminal. Gun rights aren't just about a calculation of how effective citizens are at a savings lives. It's about recognizing citizens as adults, the "we the people", who grant some powers to the government to secure liberty, about reality existing (it is what it is), and that actions have consequences. .

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  • Posted by freedomforall 3 years, 6 months ago
    CG, why don't you post an UN-biased story for a change? This is propaganda trash.
    Once again you only post biased statist rubbish from the Wa P.O.S. (or the New Yellow Times.)
    Naturally the biased scum that wrote this disgusting biased editorial posing as a news article twist a heroic effort by two brave men into a weepy liberal statist call for gun control on honest people.
    "Wah-wah-wah, Boo-hoo, Boo-hoo. Someone might have been injured. Wah-wah, Boo-hoo. Save me from honest people with guns. Wah-wah-wah. I want my safe space. Wah-wah, Boo-hoo."
    Reading the tripe from the Wa P.O.S. is for naive morons who should never be allowed to vote.

    Here is what should have been accurately reported as news, not propaganda rubbish:

    "An armed citizen shot and killed a man who walked into an Oklahoma City restaurant and opened fire Thursday evening.

    The Oklahoma City Police Department says the unidentified suspect entered Louie’s Grill & Bar at around 6:30 p.m., pulled out a pistol and started shooting. Two people were struck by the gunfire.

    Armed Citizen Fights Back
    After leaving the restaurant, the shooter was then confronted by an armed citizen. Witness Ron Benton says the gunman—described only as an 18-to-20-year-old white male—was wearing eye and ear protection as if at a shooting range and holding a gun in one hand when another man in an SUV pulled into the parking lot. When the man saw what was happening, he grabbed a handgun from inside his vehicle.

    Benton says the suspect started approaching the man.

    “I spotted the shooter walking along the sidewalk in the trees and I pointed saying, ‘He’s there! He’s there!'” Benton told The Oklahoman. “He kind of stopped walking and was kind of pacing around and they are screaming, ‘Put it down!’ [The gunman] must have made a move because shots began being fired. I got down behind a car, and I don’t know exactly how many shots were fired but there were a few. When I got up, he was down on the ground… and a police car was coming in at that time.”

    The suspect was shot by the armed citizen an unknown number of times and died at the scene.

    Police are still working to identify the gunman and ascertain his motives.

    “Right now, all I know is that it was just a good Samaritan that was there and looks like he took the right measures to be able to put an end to a terrible, terrible incident,” Oklahoma City Police Department Captain Mathews said.

    “This is a blessing that it was stopped at this point, who knew when this guy was going to stop shooting people,” Mathews added."
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    • Posted by $ allosaur 3 years, 6 months ago
      As a former police reporter during the 70s, I believe I would have included that the good guys were arrested and then released once things were sorted out.
      As a concealed carry person, I have every expectation that if forced to use my gun, I may be arrested by police arriving on the scene.
      I'm going to do exactly what they tell me to do.
      The police do not want to get shot any more than I do.
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    • Posted by Lucky 3 years, 6 months ago
      FFA- I read the article and just did not understand what happened, I did not persevere as you did. Now, after your rewrite, and allosaur's comment, all is clear.

      That W Post link is an example of what is now wrong with journalism.

      A plus point is quite inadequate to show appreciation of FFA's very good response.
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  • Posted by $ ColinJ67 3 years, 6 months ago
    Nazario and Whittle, the two Samaritan citizens, acted in good faith, when they intervened to stop an armed man actively attacking other citizens with a gun. Using the information available, they assessed the situation and took the action they deemed appropriate.

    In the ensuing investigation, the outcome not to charge either of them, indicates their actions were deemed lawful and appropriate.

    In our free society, we have the freedom to protect and defend ourselves and others from unlawful attack. We accept that the outcome won't always be perfect or even to our liking.

    It is noted, in the article, that Alexander Tilghman didn't kill anyone. I'd say it wasn't for a lack of trying to. What may have happened had Nazario and Whittle not confronted him and stopped his unlawful shooting of others can be debated. I'd predict he would have continued shooting people.

    The article gives background information on Tilghman indicating he may have had mental or psychological issues at the time of the incident. This isn't a viable or reasonable excuse not to take action to stop him using the force necessary. As Tilghman was using deadly force through a firearm, it is reasonable to use deadly force to stop his actions.

    In the mid to late 2000's the number of persons shot in an active shooter incident was approximately 2.5 per minute. Which means, though the police were only a minute away, they could have faced that many additional shooting victims when they arrived. When time is of the essence, the sooner action is taken the better.

    Sometimes we, the human race, must take life to defend life. We should seek to only do so out of an absolute necessity.

    I happen to be a retired police officer. I spent 13 years of my career on our tactical enforcement unit. I was taught active shooter response, studied it, then was called upon to teach it.

    You can't have a perfect outcome from these incidents, as they always start with a person or persons harming and or killing their fellow man.

    It's been quite some time since I've posted something here. I hear the health club calling me to workout, so I'll end here.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 3 years, 6 months ago
    It always works. When bad guys shoot and good guys are allowed to shoot back, the bad guys go down. How many more would have been wounded or killed had Nozario and whittle not been there before the police arrived? Just one more case for the right to be armed.As more people are armed and the word gets out that shooting others is a death sentence then perhaps shooters who heretofore would kill with impunity, might think twice about it.
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    • Posted by 3 years, 5 months ago
      I agree with all of that, but my point is that this article treats it just as an issue of stopping a horrible crime. That's obviously important. But another issue is acknowledging the concept that citizens are adults who take responsibility for life and death issues, and they grant powers to the gov't, not the other way around. I suspect that was one reason the framers of the Constitution specifically included the right.
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  • Posted by rtpetrick 3 years, 6 months ago
    What color was the shooter?
    My guess is, based on the use of proper English language in his response, the is probably white.
    What do you think.....?
    Average police response to a 911 is 7 min.....The average response to a.357 magnum is 1300 ft/sec.
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