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Santa Fe school shooting: America’s gun problem, explained in 5 facts

Posted by  $  nickursis 2 months ago to Culture
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Now this is a classic, fake news article on guns and gun violence, take some statistics out of context (the US has more gun deaths than Sweden, Germany or Finland, uh, because they have strict gun control laws) and leave out the real data needed for an argument, like, oh, say knife attacks (if you don't have a damn gun, you use a damn knife, hatchet, samurai sword, whatever is at hand). Now, you pontificate on how it is the GUNS that cause all this, not the morons pulling the triggers, not the disturb kids who have been bullied to the point if they didn't have a gun, they would use one of the alternatives, the mental cases wandering around who do not take their med, the fact we have so many mental cases, after 30 years of "enlightened" education and oodles of reforms. Then you manipulate more data and arguments always supporting YOUR little fantasy, and POOF!, its all true and you have a herd of simple minded idiots voting to ban anything that uses a bullet. Talk to the Australian woman and children murdered by GUNS in a heavily REGULATED COUNTRY, who were killed last week, and you will find out: When someone wants to kill you, no damn gun laws are going to stop them. Or just pull the statistics from Chicago or Wash DC, shining examples of the total, utterly complete failure of the whole "take your guns away" fallacy.
SOURCE URL: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/21/17028930/gun-violence-us-statistics-charts


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    Posted by  $  CBJ 2 months ago
    To reverse the epidemic of violence and bullying in schools, a few simple reforms will suffice:

    1) Repeal all compulsory attendance laws.
    2) Close all government schools.
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  • Posted by  $  allosaur 2 months ago
    Last Friday Sean Hannity repeated his solution for protecting schools, which I've listened to him say since February.
    (Me dino decided not to post a link to that February 15-minute speech and condense Hannity's views with my own words).
    Having off and on worked security guard jobs after retiring from my corrections officer career, me dino agrees with Hannity.
    Hire retired cops and veterans as armed guards.
    Have one way in and one way out at the same point where IDs must be shown and a metal detector is used.
    Addressing the expense, Hannity said, "What is more precious than our children?"
    Last night he posed another question: "Have you ever heard of a shooting at the Oscars?"
    Hannity hs repeatedly said that armed guards are used to protect politicians, movie stars and athletes. Are our children less important?
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    • Posted by Solver 2 months ago
      Better than leftist solutions like disarming the people and supplying children with buckets of rocks.
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      • Posted by  $  allosaur 2 months ago
        Imagine those idiotic buckets of rocks used for bullying and breaking windows.
        And me dino suddenly recalls the Dukes Of Hazard using bows and arrows due to past convictions legally forbidding them to have guns.
        I occasionally get catalogs with which I can mail order crossbows, throwing knives and all sorts of sharp nasty stuff.
        Molotov cocktails are easy to put together. Wine bottles work the best for fireball breakage ignition..
        Yup, without guns, its still easy to kill kids armed with silly buckets of rocks.
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        • Posted by  $  2 months ago
          Notice a lot of attacks happen in the south, where they have yet to issue their rock buckets?
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          • Posted by  $  allosaur 2 months ago
            I grew up at Dothan, Alabama, home of the Peanut Festival complete with a parade, a fair, a beauty pageant and other stuff.
            It's hard to find a rock in the reddish clay soil great for growing peanuts and fashioning dirt clods and getting into dirt clod fights was fun.
            Ancient slingers oft used river rocks (rivers around Dothan are dirty brown runs over mud just like how the the Mississippi looks in New Orleans) but ancient slingers also melted down lead into round balls called bullets, that being where the word "bullet" came from.
            This way, a school shooter can be greeted by a hail of bullets. Get it? A hail of bullets!!
            Bwahahahahaha!
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  • Posted by  $  Stormi 2 months ago
    OMG, he has been a reporter for three or four years, and is now an expert, typical millennial. Have a conclusion, and supply statistics to support it. Delphi Technique. Since guns are banned in some countries, how about the full murder statistics, since they will use whatever they can get, knives, bombs, explosives, poison gas, vehicles. How about some twit like this actually doing the reesarch into each school shooting to see that schools are the problem, not guns. Politicans want to give schools more money now for safety. Crazy, since what they do in those schools is what is driving the kids mental! Is here no reason left int his country, esp. among college educated young people? Schools, and their call for more kids on psychotropic drugs, their weakening of the students, thier, constant psychological branwashing, that is why kids are so messed up. Everyone one has to conform to the group or be ridiculed. Individuals are discouraged and bullied. Kids have no inner strength to stand up to these actions, they only know they have self-esteem they did not earned, but teachers said they had. They have no idea what self-respect is, nor do the teachers. Teachers call tehmselves "change agents", and this is what they have brought us.
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  • Posted by NealS 2 months ago
    Homicides per Gun, you gotta be kidding me. Maybe I have some 35 guns or so, and not one of them has committed a homicide, not even a single one, not even a little crime. * United Nations Data, you gotta be kidding me again, we know how the United Nations thinks, they only talk about those nasty Israelis. The UN and CNN are synonymous with each other, they make up whatever fits their agenda. "The problem is guns, not mental illness"? Wow, another joke. If it would be stated "The problem is politicians, not guns", then I could agree. * Firearm suicides, how many total suicides where they don't have guns? Perhaps if I don't have a gun I just won't kill myself, yah sure. Tell it to a friend of mine that ran his car in his garage until it killed him. * How about taxes, I contend taxes cause criminal behavior, even suicides, and politicians are totally to blame for taxes, they create the need for more taxes every time they meet. Have you ever seen taxes go down (other than Trump's attempt)? I also contend that since the last administrations stirring of the pot again has revived unjustified hatred, confusion, mental illness, even down to our youth. It has made it a lot more dangerous to do the jobs we actually pay others to do to protect us. Just think how stupid that is, we pay for protection then we demean our protectors so the freaks attack and kill them. Sounds like mental illness to me. Even if our youth are not concerned or just plain ignorant of politics, they can't help hearing all of it from the media as to just how unfair life is here in the United States. Again, what's happening in our society today gives me more understanding why He eventually takes us away. I'd like to ask the author just how many dead students would be acceptable from a knife attack or even a bomb incident. Then could you continue to blame guns for dead kids?
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    • Posted by scojohnson 2 months ago
      Their "Trend' was clearly moving downward before Australia banned guns, there was a slight acceleration - but that was also a recovering world economy in the same timeframe. Nothing hastens adult male suicide like a serious recession and the inability to pay the bills or put food on the table. The economy recovers, and suicides go down. Has nothing to do with "gun buybacks". If someone is going to off themselves, there is no shortage of ways to do so.
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  • Posted by scojohnson 2 months ago
    Notice, the cherry-picking of "industrialized nations". None of those European nations or Canada have Mexico and Central America on it's border with 22-30 million illegal immigrants within its boundaries.

    The highest country for gun deaths - Honduras, with 670 murders per 1 million annually., compared to about 46 for the US.
    Guatemala is very high - 300 or so, El Salvador - 270, Brazil - 207, Columbia, 180, Mexico - 65, and Coast Rica at 60 - all of which come here by the pipeline and yes, a lot of them are criminals and gang members. Their gang wars certainly spill across the border and continue here.

    Why don't they mention that? It would suggest that building a wall will help, that stopping illegal immigration would help, and shipping the criminals back would help. - All substantially more than "gun control". You can't buy a firearm legally in any of those countries - yet it certainly doesn't stop a criminal from obtaining one.

    I still think it's hilarious, the left thinks guns are a mysterious technology akin to Artificial Intelligence and if you can't buy one in the store, you can never obtain one. LOL... I reload thousands of rounds of ammunition every year by hand, it's not exactly rocket science.. I have a lot of electronic and robotic tools to make it easier and faster, but ultimately I can do it by hand with a simple balance scale if I have to.

    Building a functioning firearm is not difficult either - the French Resistance built STEN full autos in the kitchen with plumbing parts.

    Lack that mental illness plays a part? I'll call Bullshit on that one. While it's probably not much of a factor in suicides or crimes of passion, basically every mass murder has had a serious mental illness. Even California recognizes this with an automatic ban on firearms purchases if ever held on a 72-hour mental facility incarceration (known as a 5150).
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    • Posted by  $  2 months ago
      Welcome to the Liberal insanity show...
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      • Posted by scojohnson 2 months ago
        Gavin Newsome's new governor campaign ad says "I'll ban military-style ammunition"... What the hell is "military-style ammunition"? A .223 round?

        Whatever, I'll just buy 10,000 .223 cases online and keep buying 22 caliber projectiles at the gun shop. What an f'ing moron.
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        • Posted by  $  2 months ago
          Exactly, people will be driving over the border and hording ammunition for the upcoming revolution, because this can only end one way, as they keep the pressure up and violating our rights, it happened in 1776, it can happen again, which goes back to why this is all a big setup.
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          • Posted by scojohnson 2 months ago
            You mean 1861... The Southern Democrats were inflamed over Lincoln's election to President and fired on Fort Sumter.

            They are doing it again, I used to kind of think I was alone in believing this will inevitably end badly, but if you actually Google "Second American Civil War" - there is no shortage of others believing the same thing.

            Someone even gamed out the 5 year campaign until the Republicans snuff out every last Democrat.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzxKn...
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            • Posted by  $  2 months ago
              Uh, sorry, but I do not have any faith in the republicans, in fact I would say they are close allies of the Dumbocraps in most things, but mostly in their insane craving of power. McCain is my poster boy for that theory, with Ryan standing behind him, nope, no Republicrats or Dumbocraps. An Independent Party I can go for if it ever surfaces.
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  • Posted by scojohnson 2 months ago
    We used to have segregated special education programs for autistic kids, slow kids, mentally ill, kids with mental defects, etc. Now, under Common Core, they are all lumped into "general population" complete with the idiotic new "math'.
    Apparently, the assumption is that kids will act like adults (instead of kids) and not pick on the kid in the front corner jerking off every day (that actually happened when my son was in high school - his Junior year the kid's mother came to the class to try to "explain" that her son was special and that masturbating in public wasn't a sexual thing, it was just how he calms himself so he can "concentrate".. so every day for the year, the kid masturbated to orgasm in math class. Lovely for the janitor... The 15/16 year old girls were supposed to look the other way apparently.

    Add fuel to that fire with Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Tinder, etc.. and you not only have bullying non-stop in the school like there always has been, but now includes 24/7/365 on social media.

    Simultaneously, the left has been so successfully eroding faith in society, that now there are large percentages of youth that are actively cynical, if not completely apprehensive to religion. Apparently, the left is offended by "Thou Shalt Not Kill", "Thou Shalt Not Steal", and "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbor's Wife" - all things that tend to send communities into a tailspin.

    Reportedly, the first girl shot in Texas last week was the one that refused his sexual advances. If you notice - out of the 10 dead, 8 were girls.
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    • Posted by  $  2 months ago
      You mean this girl: https://nypost.com/2018/05/21/teen-ki...

      So, if she had a real concern this kid would go nuts, why didn't she report it, and if she did, what happened, and where was mom who she told a couple weeks before? There are always a huge chain of stupid "we didin't do anything" stories on EVERYONE of these events. Yet you NEVER hear any cries about that, it is the total disregard for the reality, and the direct move to "it's the guns" that screams "setup".
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      • Posted by scojohnson 2 months ago
        Yup - every single one of these is a combination of a disturbed individual and a lot of bullying.

        Some commentary on one of the brand-x news shows last week had one of the classmates and he commented that even some of the teachers picked on him - the JV football coach used to constantly make little jokes & slurs about how much he stunk. Apparently one of those types that don't like to bathe every day.
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        • Posted by  $  2 months ago
          All indicative of poor social skills and a lack of basic education in interpersonal relations. Most of the nutjobs had some similar malfunction and their parents refuse to acknowledge it, until the kid explodes.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 2 months ago
    America's population exceeds all of the countries mentioned. The answer lies more in the area of education than in confiscation. Guns are primarilly used by honest citizens as weapons of self defense. They are highly effective for that purpose. We should br checking out what causes people to fly off the rails and using guns to kill,. I think that there is also an element of self-glorification in the form of martyrdom, but most martyrs have a cause whereas these killers seem only to want the cause to be the killing. Very insane.
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  • Posted by GaryL 2 months ago
    Pick the weapon you prefer to be killed by! Let us count the ways, guns, trucks, bombs, fire, knives, hammers, swords, Axes, poison, rope, rocks.
    Evil people and those who are mentally deranged have been killing since the beginning of time. The methods and technology have changed but the end results are the same, you're dead and if your death was intentionally caused by another human then it does not matter in the least what weapon or method that person used. What caused that person to have the desire to kill is what does matter and until they get a handle on that all the rest is just psychobabble. He can stick his facts where the sun does not shine and I will keep my gun just in case I run into one of these people with ill intents. Funny thing about being a human being is that God taught us and gave us the ability to survive and spears and bows just don't cut it these days. You can bet your ass when the SHTF the first call that writer will make is for a cop with a gun.
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  • Posted by  $  exceller 2 months ago
    This idiot German Lopez makes up a lot of nonsense here. One of them is "The problem is guns not mental illness" and he even believes it, never mind that mental illness has been identified behind several gun attacks.

    He is obviously a lefty and we are aware that for the left facts don't matter. The rhetoric does, e.g. Obama.

    It is sickening how this specimen has grown over the population and managed to sway many.

    The proof for their fake demand being a nonsense would be to ban guns with the result of gun related violence remaining the same, but that would inconvenience a lot of law abiding people. Of course that would not concern the left as long as their demand would prevail. They would find another reason for the violence then.
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  • Posted by  $  blarman 2 months ago
    Fact #1. America has a unique "problem". Truth. Yes, America is the only nation in the world which recognizes the individual right to protect one's own person and property - especially from the tyranny of government. And that's a big problem for the big government folks. What also doesn't get acknowledged is that the primary cause of firearm-related deaths in the United States is gang violence.

    Fact #2. The problem is poor gun control. Truth. Proper gun control means 1. knowing what is beyond your target, 2. only pointing a firearm at something you are willing to destroy, 3. never putting one's finger on or near the trigger until you are willing to destroy something, and 4. always treating a firearm as if it is loaded. And even before that is a proper respect for the rights of others - especially a right to life. What I find most galling and hypocritical is that these same loud-mouths advocating gun control are more than willing to support abortion and oppose the death penalty. They are also the ones most likely to impose restrictions on owning a firearm for mental health reasons except ones which really matter (see the Parkland Florida shooter).

    Fact #3. Gun control works. Truth. It works great for enslaving or decimating one's political enemies. Hitler used it to great effect in Germany in the 1920's and 1930's. Stalin used it to great effect in the 1950's, as did Mao in China and Pol Pot in Cambodia. Together it is estimated that they slaughtered more than 100 million of their own peoples. But what are those numbers in comparison to a school shooting?

    Fact #4. State and local actions are not enough. Truth. It is the halfway principles that are being peddled that are the problem. It's okay to push violent video games, okay to slaughter the unborn, totally wrong to punish criminals because they are just misunderstood, and totally okay to allow people to live in their own fantasy worlds instead of having to mature and deal with the real world. People have a right to a good job, housing, healthcare, and good education but they don't have a right to life or liberty or property.

    Fact #5. America needs to go further than anyone wants to admit. Truth. We need to get back to teaching American values: hard work, self discipline, self-reliance, personal achievement, invention, ingenuity, respect for human rights and especially what those human rights are. We should be teaching civics courses in grade schools and high schools (along with basic economics) in order to emphasize TANSTAAFL. We need to eliminate the cancerous federal welfare programs which promote sloth and an entitlement attitude. And yes, that is further than America wants to go.
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    • Posted by  $  pixelate 1 month, 3 weeks ago
      Thank you for your post. I like the way that you laid out these points and clearly articulated them. And what you said is so clearly and plainly obvious -- perhaps just to a portion of the population, such as folks here in The Gulch. All of the normalization of depravity and the embrace of entitlement is by design. I choose to not take part in it, so far as I am able... my resources are spent on maintenance and self-improvement. In any case -- I very much appreciated your post and thoughtfulness.
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  • Posted by chad 2 months ago
    Mass shootings seem to always take place where the shooter knows there will be little if any resistance. If it is desired to stop unnecessary deaths start with larger causes, eliminate cars and drunk driving deaths will be eliminated. No more ball bearings to be made, they can be used as projectiles in home made bombs. No diesel fuel and fertilizer so that bombs can't be made. Arrest all the people associated with the killings as in; not the NRA but the democrats and socialists, they always seem to be the ones doing the killings. Although the leftists always point at the NRA as being a culprit none of the shooters have ever been connected with the NRA, when information about the shooter leaks out it seems they are socialists. Eliminating them from society would seem to be more useful than eliminating guns.
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  • Posted by mrdenis 2 months ago
    These kids are bullying their own and now want to blame guns ....!...Bullying on social media lasts forever.
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    • Posted by  $  2 months ago
      Exactly! And the Liberal manipulation is to use it for their own ends, to get the guns away from us so they have a secure dictatorship. This seems to all be engineered, as it is weirdly suspicious that the last nutjon had an AR "assault rifle" and this one had a pistol and shotgun. Now all evil versions of weaponry have been covered, and the law passing can begin. Oregon already has the "ban all assault rifle" law gathering signatures, and they even have a huge lie there, the wording bans all "semiautomatic weapons" meaning rifles, pistols, shotguns. When pointed out in debates, the Liberal liars go "thats not what it means" and leave it at that. Corrupt scum, all of them.
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      • Posted by RevJay4 1 month, 4 weeks ago
        Well, it is the "left coast", and we all know what the left does best is lie. So, no surprise there that the socialists in Oregon would attempt to ban any sort of gun.
        And, when confronted about what their gun laws truly mean, they lie.
        Its what liberals/socialists/commies do. Sort of like the scorpion hitching a ride across a stream on the back of a frog, then stings the frog killing it. Its their nature. Simple.
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  • Posted by Solver 2 months ago
    Fake cause! So predictable. Something else, like the shooter had same type of hammer and sickle pin as some other school shooters, would never be reported as a possible violence motivator by the left bent main stream media.
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    • Posted by  $  2 months ago
      So, call me a conspiracy theorist, but the CIA has been documented as having refined several conditioning systems that can make a person kill their own parents without a qualm. Isn't it suspicious someone comes up with the weapons that have yet to be used in theis way, in an attack designed to surely get as much attention as any, and just to add the emphasis, throw in the red star, communist background and Iron cross? Now come the Liberals with the "we will save you from the evil guns and their communist backing nazi loving right wingers"? Doesn't this whole sordid affair seem engineered for a specific goal?
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      • Posted by  $  exceller 2 months ago
        Maybe I am missing something: "the evil guns and their communist backing nazi loving right wingers" - how do communism and right wingers come together?
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        • Posted by  $  2 months ago
          Ah, you miss the propaganda point, by adding in BOTH they make the argument that this nut job loves the control and the strict rules that would have protected him from the evil coaches and kids harassing him, then adds the psychological justification of his actions because the evil right wing Nazis of course will make you all kill others, and the evil commies will also do said actions, all in the name of the control freaks which is the bottom line of the Liberals emotional arguments. They keep pushing the the right wing will control all of you and allow all this evil to happen to every minority, female, race religion, sexual orientation. This kid just attacked that all. AND he attacked it using the evil shot gun and pistol, thus we have to ban all shotguns and pistols, now. Add that to the evil assault rifle attacks and now you have programmed all the SJW/Liberal/peasants that ALL guns are a threat to the future of the liberal agenda. They caused several "assault rifle" events to make sure that item is their number one target, because with those gone, if they get control, no one can really revolt because shotguns and pistols are the modern day equivalent to pitchforks and spears.I predicted after the last Florida attack that the next one was a shotgun or pistol, because whoever is running this OP is going to make the psychological oint that ALL guns are bad and must be taken. That is their ideal state, but they went whole hog on "assault" rifles, as they will be a real impediment to their control. Hillary's loss really scared the deep state, and notice that there has been a huge surge in these incidents since then? I don't think it is a coincidence, I think they got real worried there might be enough people who do not want their control, who could be a threat.Call me crazy, but I lost all my guns in the lake when my canoe tipped over, that's my story....
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          • Posted by  $  exceller 2 months ago
            Nickursis, you are right, I see your point now. There is nothing more evil than the liberal left (aka communists), except I always said that people here have no idea how evil they are b/c never lived under communism.

            Your sentence "thus we have to ban all shotguns and pistols, now" is spot on. Remember how Obama used to say every time he demanded one of his dictatorial measures: "we have to do it, now". Everything had to be done right now. Obamacare: "we have to approve it, now", we can read it later. It must be one of the Alynsky doctrines.
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            • Posted by  $  2 months ago
              Oh, they are already on the bandwago, Oregon is gathering signatures for banning and confiscating all "assault weapons" tht have the ominous detail in it "all weapons with magazines that hold 8 or more rounds". That will cover most weapons as all my pistols, mt AR and my 30-30 can hold 8 rounds or more. However, since they all fell to the bottom of the lake when the canoe tipped over, I guess they won't get mine unless they go diving....We can fight back...we have to lower our standards and honesty and start lying like they do.
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  • Posted by Eyecu2 2 months ago
    IN the article he states, "As I see it, the core issue is that America as a whole refuses to even admit it has a serious problem with guns and gun violence."

    I couldn't agree more; however, the serious problem is the Lefts desire to remove guns from Law Abiding Americans. If we would embrace Firearms training at the lowest levels. Teach gun safety, beginning in the homes of course, but also in the earliest grade levels. Encourage marksmanship starting in the early teen years and sponsor events. It would increase the amount of armed responsible adults; thereby, greatly reducing the likely hood of these kinds of events. While also providing for people who could head off these events earlier in their occurrences.

    These events aren't new; however, their media coverage is so all encompassing now that it seems far more impactful than in years past.
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    • Posted by  $  2 months ago
      Well, aslso if there was a serious attempt at discipline, and that kids are treated as adults from 13 on up for crimes and threatening behavhior, that would stop all of this in its tracks. But that will not happen, as programming the young has been going on for 30 years or so in preparation for this take over by the left. They are in the midst of it (Constant attacks on the President, fake news, all lamestream media running anti government propaganda, and mysterious chains of "events" all of which are engineered for a specific result) We are o the edge of an active war between left and right.
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  • Posted by  $  Dobrien 1 month, 3 weeks ago
    No problem to have an armed crew in an armored truck.
    But no guns for guards in schools.
    The trucks contents are more valuable then the school's contents ?
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 2 months ago
    I would like to see independent analysis of the numbers in the article. It says US has 29.7 homicides by firearm per million people. Two graphs down, it show US having 90 gun-related deaths. Does that mean the ave gun homicide has three victims?

    I'd like them add more countries to the scatter plot. It looks cherry-picked.

    I'd like to know how many of them were crimes. Homicide just means killing people. Killing a criminal in self-defense to save your life is "homicide".

    But let's set all that aside. Suppose the general thesis is correct. Suppose gov't could take away guns. Suppose that could make US homicide rate from all weapons fall to one sixth, as the article claims. That numbers in the article show that saving 15,000 lives a year. That's powerful. You have to put that on a scale next to the rights lost. We could save >15,000 by banning cars, and it would be a big step to fight global warming. Does that mean it's an obvious common-sense measure that we should have enacted long ago? I wonder if we could save thousands of lives if we dropped any pretense of following the Fourth Amendment. What about banning any speech that might be controversial enough to cause violence? I guess the author of this article puts 15,000 lives a year on a scale and weighs it against gun rights, and things the lives are worth more. We shouldn't stop trying to find away to stop murders, all murders, but I think there are direct and intangible benefits to citizens having the right to guns. I actually would agree with some kind of strict licensing, registration, and background check, if I didn't think they were a backdoor way to ban guns altogether. These articles make me think there are people who are just not into guns and therefore don't see it as an important right, so thousands of lives easily tips the scales for them.
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    • Posted by  $  2 months ago
      CG, uh yea, the data is cherry picked, it is skewed and what is not said is the clue to how totally innacurate it is. Notice the "US gun death" chart and the bar is out the roof and all the rest of the countries who are "civilized" and have strict gun control are so nobel and safe. BS. It does not mention that other forms of murder are used in those "civilized countries, such as knives, samurai swords and hammers. Leave that tidbit out and we are barbarians, add that in and the whole world are barbarians. All part of the programming.Makes the whole gun argument an excecise in Liberal bias and emotional "you are gonna die today" argument, all invalid. The one purpose of taking the guns is to make sure we cannot revolt in the future, period.
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      • Posted by hattrup 2 months ago
        It would be interesting to see the data cherry picked further to exclude the deaths (and populations) from Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, and a few other urban wasteland's in the US.
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