Fatherlessness by Mike Rowe

Posted by $ blarman 6 years ago to Culture
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For those who argue that there are no such things as gender or gender roles, the facts clearly state otherwise.
SOURCE URL: http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/mike-rowe-hits-hard-fatherhood


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  • Posted by $ Stormi 6 years ago
    Mike Rowe has always seemed to be an honest and sensible guy. He is right, boys, and girls, need the difference that comes with each gender.Boys learn how to treat women from dads and girls learn how they should be treated from dads. The women's movement has made women think men are disposable, they are not. They have made women act with disrespect toward men, just for existing, that is stupid. That is not to say boys should not learn equally about the realms from the female perspective. Girls can learn about how men think and feel from dad, and become more able to deal in the business environment successfully. And the cown is when parents work together to model how a marriage should work (which did not happen in our home. Each gender brings something important to the business or supper tabl, and to leave dads out of the equation is disasterous and unfair to the child.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 6 years ago
    My old man (now deceased) was very strong. He exercised and kept himself in shape. He taught me to fight (including a few techniques with the fist). Still, I was not usually afraid of him (except in cases of a dispute, where I had a specific reason to think he might hit me--which he sometimes did). When I was about 5 years old, and we lived on a blacktop, I heard the neighbors' yelling at them with an edge in his voice (unlike my father's voice, which was generally high-pitched, but without the edge). It scared the h*** out of me. If I was there, and he came home from work, I would run home. And there was a young guy (perhaps a relative or friend of their family) who had the youngest boy in a sort of bear hug; I got the idea he was hurting the boy (probably he was not). That showed me; men were mean and dangerous. I was scared of men for a long time--maybe about two or three weeks. One evening, my father and I were in the yard, and he was cutting grass, as I recall, and I thought, even though I was scared of men, Daddy was a man, and I wasn't scared of him. So I though of saying, "You're a man, aren't you?", though I may not have said it out loud. But even so, it was enough. I saw that I did not have to be scared of men; just that neighbor. (Later I learned that the neighbor was not all that bad, either, but it took time). But suppose my father had been an abuser. Or maybe not an abuser, but somebody who was never home, and thought all he had to do was make the money and fork it over, and his job as a father was done? Or somebody who had deserted us? It was very different. But one good father can outweigh millions of brutal, evil men.
    I don't know, I do think boys need a role model, but maybe a good father is even more important for a girl.
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    • Posted by $ 6 years ago
      I have heard the same from other women: that the role of father teaches them how a man should act toward women. For fathers who respect women, the women learn that that is what they should respect from other men. Those women learn to expect doors to be held, hands kept to themselves, speech to be policed, and chivalry to be the standard. Statistics continue to show that girls who grow up without a father are those most likely to become pregnant out of wedlock, most likely to end up in prison, most likely to drop out of high school, and most likely to get into drugs. That cycle can be very difficult to break.
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  • Posted by chad 6 years ago
    I always thought Mike Rowe seemed to be a decent guy. After watching this video he has high marks in my appraisal. His article is spot on. Sometimes there is a reason that a father may not be in someone's life, then the extended family and friends may have to step in to help out but positive role models are still important.
    I drive a school bus now that I am semi-retired. there were many problems on the bus with the kids while I tried to use the approved socialist guidelines of the school the get the kids to behave. I finally threw out their system and one morning at the school while the kids were still on the bus I got on the PA and told the kids we were not going to write tickets anymore and try to get the principal to cooperate with me. If anyone misbehaved, hurt others, used bad language they would be immediately removed from the bus by me and would not be able to return until I told them they could. I had to remove a couple of them before they realized I meant business. One teenager would not remain in his seat so I pulled the bus over on the highway and took him by the shirt collar, brought him to the front of the bus and told him that was where he would now sit or he could start walking (I heard him later inform another kid, that's Mr. Chad, when he says sit down he means it!). One kid used some foul language and I told he couldn't return until his mother met me at the bus stop and repeated to me what he had said, that way I would know he had told his mother the truth. Within a few days the bus settled down, the kids waited in lines at the bus stop instead of chasing the bus. Instead of shoving each other to get off the bus they unload one row at a time politely waiting for others. My worst kid, who has no father at home, started taking karate lessons so I would show up at his lessons to watch him. You could see that he was proud that a man was taking interest in him.
    As the other kids behaved well I made it a point to thank them and treat them with Grandpa' Chad chocolate chip cookies and tell them how well they are doing. Instead of calling me names they call me Mr. Chad. I respect them and tell them I expect the same from them and tell them they don't have to like me but they do have to be nice. The kids who were the biggest problems are now my bus safety officers who ensure kids are seated properly. I also train them in emergency procedures in case something happens they know they are expected to help others and be the last ones off the bus in an emergency. They respond to kindness and responsibility and understand that there is also firmness in what is expected from them.
    Still the best thing in a home are both parents being role models of what it means to be of different genders.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years ago
    I agree with the tenor of this article, but I think it's a mistake to focus on gender roles. We need the "fatherly" behaviors in kids lives. Someone who's father is dead or absent for other reasons can have other people fill that role. Just being a parent whose present and male does not guarantee he will fill that role. Trying to push people into the roles based on their sex is a separate problem that appears to be decreasing.

    I think the crisis is even worse than Rowe describes because I think we have an epidemic of what I call Momism. That's where one parent, usually the mother, obsessively focuses on shielding kids from all aspects of the adult world and autonomy. If there's a parent, usually the father, who wants to help the children grow stronger on the path to being an independent adult, people dismiss him as too risk prone.
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    • Posted by $ 6 years ago
      "I agree with the tenor of this article, but I think it's a mistake to focus on gender roles. We need the "fatherly" behaviors in kids lives."

      To be honest, I'm not sure how one can reconcile these two statements. One can not be female and be a father (neither can one who is male be a mother). It takes a father to be a father.

      "Someone who's father is dead or absent for other reasons can have other people fill that role. Just being a parent whose present and male does not guarantee he will fill that role."

      I mostly agree to the first and absolutely to the second. Dr. Laura used to call the second type "sperm donors".

      "Trying to push people into the roles based on their sex is a separate problem that appears to be decreasing."

      I disagree. See my comments above. "Father" can only be filled by a male role model, just as "Mother" can only be filled by a female role model. There is no getting around gender no matter how much society wants otherwise.

      "I think the crisis is even worse than Rowe describes because I think we have an epidemic of what I call Momism..."

      I agree, and I would add to that other non-parenting techniques like buying off their kids with stuff, putting being their friend over being their parent, being a "trophy parent" (one who pushes their children into all kinds of extra-curriculars so they can brag about their kid), and more. Being a parent means sacrificing. It means giving up your time and your money to nurture and help develop another human being. Many people think you can be a parent without those things, which is why they fail.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years ago
        " all kinds of extra-curriculars so they can brag about their kid"
        This definitely happens in some cases, but it's sort of become a custom even for parents who are not at all braggarts. I am not sure of their motivation. It seems like in the 90s there was this idea that kids needed to be in "structured activities" rather than just out playing. It seems to have gotten worse in that now it's like a neurosis in which teachers and parents don't want kids to experience even the most minor difficulties alone. People (they call themselves kids) can stay on their parents' health insurance until age 26. 26 is like the new 21. More people in their early 20s are into doing what they're told. The good thing about this is these kids take fewer risks with drugs, sex, and other reckless acts. But it worries me how docile they are about following instructions and even nervous when they have to find their own way.

        Some of it's related to trophy parents, but I really think there is more going on. I'm shocked by these parents who use the expression "eyes" while gesturing with their index and middle finger to their own eyes. It's an admonition against even going momentarily out of sight, like kids running around trees or turning a corner in a hall ahead of their parents. The theory is kids, even kids who are 9 y/o must have someone literally staring at them every moment. Some parents even want open floor-plan houses so they see their kids every moment. It seems more like neurosis than bragging.

        If you ask them, "remember when we were kids in the 80s and we ran all over the place." They say, "yeah, the world sure has changed a lot since then." If you ask how, they say it's not safe. The world is measurably safer, so I have no idea what they're talking about. Madison is one of the safest places in the world. I don't press on picking apart their neuroses. It's their choice. It's sometimes awkward because if my kids are out playing with theirs in the neighborhood, they imagine they're babysitting my kids, but my kids can jump on their bikes and head to the other park or anywhere within their boundaries.

        Hopefully I just have a "kids these days" old-man bias. I don't feel like an expert at all. I just see that my kids are growing up in a neighborhood two miles from where I grew up, yet attitudes toward kids' freedom and agency have changed radically in 35 years.
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        • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 6 years ago
          The feeling that the world isn't safe is, to a degree, the result of cable news and the 24/7 news cycle. We live in a world where we see every sparrow fall and discuss it endlessly.

          Think of all the energy and fear we are spending on school shootings. 50 million children attend 85,000 schools every day. What are the odds of any of them ever encountering anything like the shootings -- which are, thankfully, quite rare. Nevertheless, they are all being exposed to fear.

          Halloween was essentially killed by the fear of people putting razor blades or other things in the candy. The only events that happened were actually in the household with the child. For years, hospitals dutifully x-rayed bags of candy and found -- candy. Nevertheless the 'danger' eventually made people do less and less. Of course there is real danger in young children dressed in black roaming the streets at night, but people were generally careful driving.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years ago
            Exactly. School shooting are a rare freak peril and the Halloween danger is non-existent.

            We could use more bravery.
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            • Posted by $ Abaco 6 years ago
              To some degree, bravery is now lumped with "toxic masculinity"...and discouraged.
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              • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years ago
                I do not understand this. I had to google toxic masculinity. In some ways I'm becoming a confused old man because I don't get this stuff like what bravery has to do with masculinity and who's doing the lumping and discouraging. It's a cliche to grow old and think the world has gotten candy-assed, but it's apparently happening to me.
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                • Posted by Solver 6 years ago
                  Yup, had to look that one up also. It’s a term used by these gender study groups. Too bad self reliance, which is, “reliance on one's own abilities, decisions, etc”, is grouped in with “toxic masculinity.”

                  Something else I found, under “you can’t make this stuff up.” Here is a link to a list of the continuously growing, made up “gender neutral” identity pronouns everyone will be expected to use,
                  (in some places using these properly is already being enforced.)

                  https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appe...
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                  • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years ago
                    "“reliance on one's own abilities, decisions"
                    Who calls this toxic? I thought everyone accepted this as a virtue.

                    "Here is a link to a list of the continuously growing, made up gender identity pronouns everyone will be expected to use,"
                    The way I handle this in English is by trying to make things plural.
                    "A police officer must not lose control of [possessive pronoun] gun." --> "Police officers must not lose control of their gun."
                    If it has to be singular, I just pick one gender or the other: "The CEO is responsible what goes on at his [or her] company." I just pick one.

                    I've never met someone who doesn't want to be a "he" or a "she", but I would struggle with it because English is my native language, and I learned people as taking personal pronouns. I learned Spanish at a age 14, and I'll always think of "mano" (hand) as being grammatically feminine in Spanish, so I'll call it "ella" (she or her) in Spanish. It doesn't mean anything about men and women. It's just how I learned it from a young age.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years ago
        CG: I think it's a mistake to focus on gender roles. We need the "fatherly" behaviors in kids lives.
        Blarman: I'm not sure how one can reconcile these two statements. It takes a father to be a father.

        That's why I said fatherly in scare quotes. People should not force themselves to conform to their group. It's fine to be a man and not be into the fatherly things or a female not into mothering. It's usually the case that the mom is inclined to comfort the child and the man is inclined to insist they take responsibility. I see no reason to ask people not to be themselves.

        If one parent dies or isn't involved, the person who fills that role doesn't have to be male or female. Certainly same-sex couples don't have to designate one person to be "the woman" or "the man" of the family.

        I know many parents for whom doing all the traditional roles of their sex would be difficult or impossible; and there would be no benefit to it.
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        • Posted by LibertyBelle 6 years ago
          If the father is dead or institutionalized, or has deserted and is not present, perhaps an uncle or
          grandfather, or maybe in some cases even a (male) neighbor can be the "father figure".
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years ago
        "Being a parent means sacrificing."
        I accept that if "sacrifice" means making a trade-off, giving up one thing you might want in exchange for something else you want more. I do not agree with sacrifice if it means doing something that's not a net benefit.

        I don't think you meant it that way, but some people do sacrifice in the grudging sense.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years ago
    The first line is Parents "have put their own happiness above the best interests of their kids.".
    I do too. My kids will never have to think "Dad probably hated taking me to those ice skating events" or whatever it is. I don't do them unless I want to. I'm putting my happiness first. One thing that makes me happy is seeing my kids learn to recognize what makes them happy, put that happiness first, and take action to get what they want.
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