Tiny membrane makes Sydney Harbour "drinkable"

Posted by $ nickursis 6 years, 2 months ago to Science
34 comments | Share | Flag

Now this, if it works as advertised, seems almost on par with John Gaults motor. If it can reject salt, then you could use this in industrial sized plants and make a boatload of clean water. This seems pretty wild for such simple processes rendered b a new design.
SOURCE URL: https://www.csiro.au/en/News/News-releases/2018/Tiny-membrane-makes-Sydney-Harbour-drinkable


Add Comment

FORMATTING HELP

All Comments Hide marked as read Mark all as read

  • Posted by Esceptico 6 years, 2 months ago
    I happen to be in Tasmania, Australia at the moment. Water is about the only beverage that does not have outlandish taxes. The reason is the government has decided you should not drink much in the way of soft drinks, beer, wine and --- spirits. The prices are several times the price in Arizona. Thank you government.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by freedomforall 6 years, 2 months ago
      At least they still use sugar instead of the gawd awful corn syrup dreck. The soft drinks taste so bad here in America the government doesn't have to tax them to cut consumption;^)
      Bring back original coca cola with sugar and un-floridated Atlanta water!

      Have you tried out the Tassie wines yet? They had some good ones when I visited 20 years ago, and the Tassie people are the nicest I have ever met. Wine taxes are lower than other alcoholic beverages, too.
      But Tassie has the weakest economy in Australia. Less appealing weather I suspect has an effect.

      The high prices you are experiencing are more obvious to you now than they were in much of the past 30 years because the USD has lost so much value compared to the AUD. (It was even worse 5 years ago when gold was higher and the AUD was worth more than the USD.) Australia was relatively cheap for Americans in the 80's and 90's; not any more.

      You have to realize that providing the same services for only 22 million people in a place the size of the continental 48 states is going to be higher per capita than for 300 million people. America has economies of scale that Oz does not have, and Tassie, as an island, has a geographical disadvantage, too.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by Esceptico 6 years, 2 months ago
        The high prices are a direct action to intentionally reduce consumption. Other prices, though higher than US, are "normal" in context. Even Tasmania beer, for example, is $4 per standard can of beer --- though I did see it on sale of a 6-pack for $25. No joke. Like one for a dime, two for a quarter.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by freedomforall 6 years, 2 months ago
          Beer has been heavily taxed for about 10 years. Wine industry got a break when taxes were increased, and Aussie wine is better than the beer. Stick with wine. Are you going to South Australia or Victoria? I can recommend great wineries in both states if you want to visit. Let me know and I will check my tasting notes.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by Esceptico 6 years, 2 months ago
            How is $85 for 700ml of cheap vodka? One does not have to infer the intent, the intent is freely touted. Even Aussie wines are highly taxed. My wife is French, we cannot have a meal without wine. These people have more than a touch of puritan still alive and well.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by freedomforall 6 years, 2 months ago
              If so, they must have increased the wine taxes since I was there 3 years ago. Wine was a bargain compared to spirits and beer then. I had to make overseas trips every 3 months to keep my visa alive and I always bought spirits in duty free to last a while- not being a heavy user of spirits.
              I think it's as you originally implied: Government stealing all they can manage, not puritanism. Aussies are anything but Puritans. There is even a Sex Political Party ;^)
              However, that doesn't mean that many aren't socialists, they are. That is the main thing I have against Australians (and 50% of Americans, and 99% of American politicians.)
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by Esceptico 6 years, 2 months ago
                That socialist part is a big negative. Here in Hobart they are trying to outlaw Airbnb. The claim is Airbnb (where I am staying) is taking too many housing units off the long term market, and since housing is a right, "they" must be stopped. This from an article in the local paper written (of course) by a professor. We are enjoying our time here, but it is a long way from my favorite country.
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ 6 years, 2 months ago
      Ha, maybe that is where the geniuses in Seattle got their infamous "sugar tax". If the Aussies can do it, we can! More loot for us! Does Australia have a big social system to support, like free health care, and support payments for the emotionally distressed? I thought Aussies were pretty down to earth....
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by NilsAndersson 6 years, 2 months ago
    This is an application of "reverse osmosis", where you apply pressure to water so it passes through a membrane that is fine enough that solvates such as salt - and lots of other material - is blocked.
    The question, as always, is economic feasibility. Is this method with graphene cheaper than existing methods, based on reverse osmosis or any other existing methodology.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Herb7734 6 years, 2 months ago
    When humanity uses its brains and not its emotions the world truly becomes a Garden of Eden. Salt water becomes pure, deserts bloom environments are changed to accommodate. The earth becomes a paradise of plenty. Just think, if it weren't for greed, envy and laziness, There would never be a need for any human to kill any other human.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by term2 6 years, 2 months ago
    I think the rejection of dissolved salt in water wasnt claimed, and probably cant happen. It would be a great discovery if it worked, though.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ 6 years, 2 months ago
      From the video transcript: "Our graphene membrane enables 100% salt rejection as well as 100% rejection of household contaminants such as detergents and oil without fouling which was tested for over many days." Seems pretty concrete to me...although how graphene can do this is beyond my meager understanding.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by davidmcnab 6 years, 2 months ago
    That's hilarously ironic, to compare such an invention to John Galt's motor. This membrane came out of the Government-owned CSIRO, which is Australia's real-life equivalent of the State Science Institute in Atlas Shrugged.

    But in contrast to the unproductive State Science Institute, CSIRO has been known for numerous inventions over the years, one of the most famous of which is the underlying technology enabling computer WiFi networking.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ 6 years, 2 months ago
      Ironic indeed, but if it can function it A) is immediately useful in many places with contaminated drinking water, and b) on an industrial scale maybe can make areas currently unusable, usable, and allow for irrigation. Pretty significant. However, the irony is acknowledged, but maybe unlike State Science, these guys actually have some useful neurons available...
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 2 months ago
    Three things stick out to me: 1, graphite is not a good thing for the body...hope it is stable and doesn't leach out. 2. soy bean oil? really?...is there a "Clean" source anywhere on the planet? and 3, Sydney harbor is salt water, but I guess they were talking about the town/city fresh water...must have been pretty nasty to need filtering.

    Seems simple...hope it pans out...of course the environ[mental]ist will insist on adding floride and other poisons...
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by scojohnson 6 years, 2 months ago
      Graphene has nothing to do with graphite.. easy leap to make, but it's not at all similar. Graphene is a sheet of carbon atoms arrayed in a very thin membrane. It's closer to a silicon/plastic type of substance, but is extremely strong. Much stronger than steel of equal thickness and practically weightless.

      The space elevator that is being talked about would use a graphene ribbon as a tether - satellite placed in geostationary orbit, graphene tether connects the satellite to the earth (not sure how much foundation would be needed for that!) and a vehicle travels back & forth on the ribbon to the satellite/station at the other end. To/from orbit with very little fuel expended.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ 6 years, 2 months ago
      OUC, the transcript from the video has this statement:
      "Our graphene membrane enables 100% salt rejection as well as 100% rejection of household contaminants such as detergents and oil without fouling which was tested for over many days."

      Like I said above, IF (a big if) it can reject salt it has a huge potential especially in water poor but ocean rich areas. I assume they have some reverse flush system that would regenerate it, but didn't see how that works.

      As far as toxicity, here is what I found

      2012:
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...

      2014:
      https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/...

      It seems it is not considered toxic, in fact they say several applications for drug delivery and removal systems for internal use.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 2 months ago
        In vivo toxicity 2012

        Only five studies reported biodistribution and toxicity of graphene oxide following intravenous and intratracheal injection in mice (Table 3). Wang et al. (2011) divided thirty Kun Ming mice into three test groups (low, middle, high dose) and one control group. Test groups were injected intravenously with 0.1, 0.25, and 0.4 mg graphene oxides, respectively. Graphene oxide under low dose (0.1 mg) and middle dose (0.25 mg) did not exhibit visible toxicity to mice and under high dose (0.4 mg) exhibited chronic toxicity (4 out of 9 mice died). At a dose of 0.4 mg graphene oxide caused granuloma formation, in the kidneys, lungs, liver, spleen, and could not be cleaned by kidney. At a dose of 0.4 mg graphene oxide was not filtrated by the kidneys.
        Table 3
        Table 3
        Summary of the graphene family materials in vivo toxicity

        Similar results were obtained by Zhang et al. (2011) who investigated the distribution and biocompatibility of graphene oxide in Kun Ming mice. The use of radiotracer technique revealed high uptake and long term retention of graphene oxide in the lungs as well as a relatively long blood circulation time. No significant pathological changes in all the examined organs were observed following the exposure to 1 mg kg−1 of graphene oxide for 14 days. However, 10-fold increase of the dose led to forming significant pathological changes. Following the exposure to 10 mg kg−1 body weight of graphene oxide for 14 days, authors observed significant pathological changes, such as inflammation, cell infiltration, pulmonary edema, and granuloma formation in the lungs of mice.

        Couldn't get much (without paying) from the 2014 study.

        Even though, most low dose had minimal interactions, high doses did resulting in death (mice and human cell De-coheasion...so my take is even if the exposure is low and even with the reduced graphene, "It would be cumulative".
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by $ 6 years, 2 months ago
          Those are good points, and you probably have some good ideas here to be adderssed. You know how easy it is to leave out "inconvient" facts. Reminds me of the whole "Anabuse" fiasco, where they have found it will kill a broad range of cancer with no side effects, yet because it is generic, and open source the FDA wont touch it, and no company will, and no doctors, as there is no money in it.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by lrshultis 6 years, 2 months ago
            Oncologists are free to use the drug and do not have to obey the FDA on use in cancer treatment. Don't put all the blame on the FDA and drug companies. The drug is safe to use though dangerous with ethanol usage.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by $ 6 years, 2 months ago
              My point is that I have seen nothing from the drug industry but " we can help your type Z diabetes, side effects include heart failure, liver failure, cancer, brain damage, sterility, stupidity and stroke. Your mileage may vary". Every drug ad now comes with a 50% of ad worth of disclaimers listing a long list of nasty, debilitating side effects. They make their money in getting you on one drug, then others to treat the side effects, and it starts a long chain, which is why you have people taking 10-20 pills a day and spending thousands a month. Cancer treatment is a particularly nasty cottage industry, when there is a possibility of a non effecting drug that can eliminate it with no side effects, except you just can't have that highball. Sounds good to me.
              https://theacropolisnow.wordpress.com...



              Most pharmaceutical companies won’t invest in this type of treatment because there’s no patent protection for Antabuse. The drug is already FDA approved and has been in the market for over 60 years. But if Bartek’s pending trials prove to be successful, Antabuse can be prescribed as an inexpensive addition to traditional anti-cancer therapies, giving oncologists the chance to land two hits for the price of one.

              Heres another take on the question:

              https://www.sott.net/article/228583-S...

              I'm sorry, but my take is the FDA is corrupt, and the drug industry owns medical treatments, and is designed to only milk the patient of as much as possible before they die. Just my interpretation of the data I have run into the last 20 years. My personal experience was a doctor wanting me to take blood pressure medicine, and HDL reducer, I found a natural supplement that has reduced both.
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 2 months ago
            Sad but true...it's a for profit business that disregards the end user. That's NOT capitalism, nor is it humane therefore not human.

            I just don't get it, although I understand the mindless set right down to the cellular level. Why not cure one thing at a time, then move on to the next.
            When a business is started to solve a problem one should aim to put one's self out of business in regards to that problem.
            There always problems to solve, so why the corrupt bullcrap!
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by $ 6 years, 2 months ago
              I have real issues with people in "management" today (well for the last 20 years at least or longer). People who have no skills equal to the employees they "manage" and so make decisions based on what? Their best guesses? Invariably bad things happen. Usually we see companies collapse and go bankrupt with such stellar "leadership". Home Depot comes to mind....
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 2 months ago
                Nothing beats the original business creators and the worker that was mentored from the bottom up to take over when the original creators retire.
                That doesn't happen anymore. Instead, they hire, "professional" CEO's, CFO's...they know nothing of the businesses they run nor the people that make it work, make it profitable, people that gave the business a life of it's own.
                All they know is contacts, influence and a perpetuation of business... not the creation of new business.
                They suck it dry and move on to destroy the next business.
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                • Posted by $ 6 years, 2 months ago
                  Exactly, and get rich allong the way, just like the CEO of INtel who has been with the company for 20 years but tossed all his stock he could out before announcing the little issue with the vulnerabilities, yet says he is "completely committed to Intels success being a data centric company", as Motley Fool pointed out: You don't dump your company stock when you believe in it. I see it everywhere, and get really angry when some idiot comes in and his huge flash of genius is "cut everything 20%. Good grief..I could have a Democrat come up with that bit of wisdom
                  Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  

FORMATTING HELP

  • Comment hidden. Undo