11

The sun is growing colder

Posted by $ nickursis 6 years, 2 months ago to Science
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Hmmm.. some people have been suggesting this is coming, and yet, even when science gives in and says "Well, OK" they have to put their "Climate Change" spam into it : “The cooling effect of a grand minimum is only a fraction of the warming effect caused by the increasing concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere,” a statement from the research team reads."
SOURCE URL: https://nypost.com/2018/02/08/the-sun-is-growing-colder/


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    Posted by Dobrien 6 years, 2 months ago
    What a crock of $#|+.
    "The cooling effect of a grand minimum is only a fraction of the warming effect caused by the increasing concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere,” a statement from the research team reads."
    Can't do a study with out throwing in the co2
    Fiction.
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    • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 2 months ago
      warming during a solar max... +.3 tenths of one degree...the onset of a normal solar minimum, they estimate to be -.7 tenths of one degree.
      Seems to me, Global warming is dead and burried!
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      • Posted by Dobrien 6 years, 2 months ago
        Well of course we know the climate change we are entering into and it is not man. Watch the co2 levels drop in the next decade as the worlds bloom will be hampered by the increased cloud cover and the resultant cooler weather. Increased Cosmic rays due to a weakened Magnetisphere and volcanic eruptions and an increase in Arctic Ice all creating an albido effect like we have not experienced in our lifetime.
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        • Posted by $ 6 years, 2 months ago
          My guess is they are missing the full impact of a Solar Minimum, or else they are just discounting the Maunder Minimum as a deviant. Your statement is indicative of the huge systemic function that all of the factors both cause and effect, which is why the simplistic "CO2 causes it" models just never seem to result in facts that match. They do not model the system correctly because they still do not understand the dynamics of the whole thing and half the possible inputs are still "fake science" in the mainstream camp.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 6 years, 2 months ago
    No objective evidence for their GW conclusion ... as usual for looters.

    Gosh, it feels like I am at the supermarket checkout line - except I always use the computers to checkout and avoid the propaganda rubbish.
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    • Posted by $ 6 years, 2 months ago
      You mean the racks of trash paper "news" (and I count Newsweek, the Enquirer, People and Cosmo all in one group of trash)....?
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      • Posted by freedomforall 6 years, 2 months ago
        Yes, and although they aren't in the supermarket, don't forget Fortune, Money, Forbes, Businessweek, and Barron's for Wall Street disinformation to shear the honest investor of his savings.
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        • Posted by $ 6 years, 2 months ago
          Yes, I gave up the whole stock thing after playing the penny stocks in 1997-99 and riding the hydrogen power market up, then down.
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          • Posted by freedomforall 6 years, 2 months ago
            Penny stocks are manipulated to their death by insiders on Wall St who sell their shares to the public. It eliminates competition for their bigger clients and ultimately transfers ownership of new technology and the economic benefits from the inventors to them. It's a rigged game that everyone in the business of selling shares will deny.
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          • Posted by $ pixelate 6 years, 2 months ago
            I started getting these colorful flyers in the mail regarding sundry penny stocks (oil, gas, alternative energy, gold and silver derivatives, etc) about 12-15 years ago. Early on, I would read them then toss them. Then, about 10 years ago, I started keeping track of these stocks in a spreadsheet. No big revelation ... these stocks would uniformly fall into oblivion. Although I never bought into any of them, the colorful sales pitch flyers sure did make for an interesting read in the context of psychology related to motivation, being the "smart" investor, sharing a "vision" ... It's been years since I have received any of these flyers. They sure were a big deal for a while.
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  • Posted by chad 6 years, 2 months ago
    As one scientist pointed out the gas that can trap heat and warm the planet more than any other and is far more prevalent than CO2 is water vapor. I think we should remove all the water vapor from the atmosphere and the planet, we could reduce global warming and keep burning fossil fuels. Problem solved.
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    • Posted by CaptainKirk 6 years, 2 months ago
      Please be Careful posting truths like this.
      I was afraid if these MORONS discover the warmth comes from the sun, they would try BLOWING UP THE SUN to "Save us all".

      Now, you tell them to get rid of the moisture in the air. OMG... If these idiots find a way to do that, we will all die of dehydration, which they will label as SUCCESS because the SAND won't be HOT!

      I wish this were a sarcastic reply... I really do!
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 2 months ago
    And they fail to mention the 4000 cold records broken globally versus only a 1000 warm records broken...of course, they will only site records going back to the 80's not 200 or 400 years ago...(Yes we do have temperature records going back that far)

    Oh...and they never bother to mention the snow in the tropics and the 2' of snow in the Sahara desert!...and not to mention, our weakened magnetic shields and cosmic rays causing more clouds or the many, many volcanic eruptions.

    The Grand Solar Minimums have been identified going back 8K years or more and are more reliable than a timex watch.
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  • Posted by CaptainKirk 6 years, 2 months ago
    I did the research ONE time, and found these facts.
    First the annual 0.01C increase they are talking about means in 100 years, 1C overall average higher temperatures. (Now they assume a non-linear ramping, which has not been experienced).

    But even funnier. When looking into the calculations used. The Margin of Error was: 0.1C

    That's right. The Margin of Error, on the calculations, due to the limited accuracy of any readings, is 10 TIMES the anticipated RESULT.

    In what scientific world does one speculate about numbers that are ONE ORDER OF MAGNITUDE below the MoE???? Any result significantly smaller than the MoE could be induced by changing the order of doing some of the operations!

    So, we have a WILD Cold Snap. Record setting cold weather. But that 0.01C ...
    THAT is going to COOK US. (but keep in mind it could be a -0.99 C drop and still be within the MoE)

    This is stuff we learned in like 6th or 7th grade. Clearly by 9th grade we could do this in our sleep. WTF is wrong with these people.

    ==
    Funny story, in my Intro to Physics class, we were talking about spinning electrons around a super collider. And a young lady asked "How do they get the Electron to move around? Do they tie it to a string?" I have NEVER laughed so hard in my entire life. I bet she is a Climate Change believer today!
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  • Posted by BCRinFremont 6 years, 2 months ago
    An excellent analysis of this topic is presented in “Unstoppable Global Warming : Every 1,500 years” by S. Fred Singer and Dennis T. Avery, 2007. Among other things, several sun and earth cycles cause climate changes, especially when in conjunction
    with one another: E.g, short and long term sun intensity cycles, earth axis cycles, and earth revolution cycles. When the sun is in a hot cycle and the earth is in a revolution placing it closer to the sun and the axis is tilted in a certain way, things heat up...and vica versa.
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  • Posted by wiggys 6 years, 2 months ago
    I expect in the next 32 years we will have at minimum 32 new theories relating to climatic changes that will potentially be destructive to the earth. chances are I will not be here for all of them, so I am enjoying each day as it is presented to me.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 2 months ago
    You are gona love this one Nick...If I were going to post it, it would be Humor...it's the funniest thing I've read is a few days, next to chuckie schumer eating a Tide Pod...

    Other than the suns reduced irradiance the entire article is false...ya gota laugh at their stupidity if not their shear boldness of bullshit.

    http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/pressrelease...
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    • Posted by Dobrien 6 years, 2 months ago
      Half of the so called study is based on a false manipulated temperature models projection of higher and higher temps the Michael Manns hockey stick graph. The Maunder Minimum is correctly and clearly described as a very cold period .The reduced irradiance will occur at the same time the historical records show a very large volcanic eruption or 2 during these minimums.
      Add cosmic rays and atmospheric compression.
      The planet is more vulnerable as far as humans are concerned because of our weakend shield As you know plasma events are suspect in the formation of water as oxygen races up to meet hydrogen in the ionosphere creating rivers of rain and serious if not epic floods. Indoor farming is what is needed and if the weather stays warm no harm no foul.
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      • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 2 months ago
        The funniest thing in the whole article was when they say: Carbon has remained below 300ppm for 100's of thousands of years...Clear, unadulterated Bull Crap...infact, that's exactly were they got that information...from a bulls butt!
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      • Posted by ByzantineGeneral 6 years, 2 months ago
        oxygen races up to meet hydrogen in the ionosphere

        WTAF?

        Everybody knows it's the phlogiston leaking off into the cislunar sphere. Moron!
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        • Posted by Dobrien 6 years, 2 months ago
          It's electric not combustion. With a weakened Magnetisphere a condition that we have not experienced in modern times .The theory is that a CME or X-class solar flare blast ing us with hydrogen filled plasma entering the ionosphere with a strong negative charge . This attracts the positive oxygen combining to form H2O. This makes far more sense as to where the earth got its water ,than the comets as icy snowball BS . That's what WTAF
          "The unequal sharing of electrons gives the water molecule a slight negative charge near its oxygen atom and a slight positive charge near its hydrogen atoms. When a neutral molecule has a positive area at one end and a negative area at the other, it is a polar molecule."
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  • Posted by term2 6 years, 2 months ago
    Even IF there is a global warming trend in 50 years, I will be long dead by then and it wont affect me. In addition, if the sea levels rise a few feet, all one would have to do is use those 50 years to arrange to live on higher ground or in a safer place. Big Deal. I dont see why it makes sense to disrupt life NOW and give trillions to governments to attempt to alter the course of nature.
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    • Posted by $ 6 years, 2 months ago
      Because those trillions will NEVER be used to alter ANYTHING. They will disappear or be used to shore up some other flim flam operation like Social Security, or in each state, ther PERS. Oregon is in the midst of trying to roll over us with a 1 Billion $$$ "Cap and Trade" for "Clean Energy Jobs". BS. No government ever creates jobs, just more government. They will take that money and shore up PERS, leaving them only 4 billion or so in the hole this year.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 6 years, 2 months ago
    The oceans are depleting! The climate is growing too hot (or cold) We're all gonna die! Lions and tigers and bears - oh my!
    The sky is falling and up until now, I wasn't aware it was comprised of acorns.--Chicken Little
    And so it goes. A new scare every year. When one is proven false, a new one pops up. My prediction: When and if a world -wide disaster occurs, mankind will cope with it and succeed in overcoming it until everything gets better.
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    • Posted by $ 6 years, 2 months ago
      Now one issue that seems real, and realevant, is the acidification of the oceans due to increased CO2, resulting in Carbonic Acid. Now, had they harnessed that pony, I almost could get on board with it, as it beats evolutionary time to ramp up the volume of CO2. But they missed that bus, since Al did not know anything about oceans.....
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      • Posted by Lucky 6 years, 2 months ago
        Oceans are not acidic and cannot become acidic.
        The word acidification is intentionally misleading being part of sophistry not of chemistry.

        The world’s oceans are alkali. (alkali. alkaline. base. as appropriate)
        If all the world’s atmospheric CO2 was put in the oceans (and life on earth thereby extinguished) the oceans would still be alkali. 98% of all the world’s gaseous CO2 is already in the oceans.

        No increase in atmospheric CO2 can change ocean pH to acidic.
        CO2 in the atmosphere is converted in the oceans to calcite (limestone) and other carbonates, mostly through biological paths CO2 + CaO => CaCO3 (exothermic).
        The conversion rate increases with increasing CO2 partial pressure, a dynamic equilibrium-seeking mechanism.

        Oceans contain dissolved CO2.
        The amount deceases with temperature, see Henry's Law.
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        • Posted by $ 6 years, 2 months ago
          Ok I am not a chemist (other than the simple chemistry we use in making chips, and we dont make shell chips) so here is what I have seen:

          https://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/W...

          http://ocean.si.edu/ocean-acidification

          https://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...

          http://www.epoca-project.eu/index.php...

          Are these unbiased? I don't know, but they do seem to have some facts to support that it is an issue.
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          • Posted by Lucky 6 years, 2 months ago
            Warning, long boring post

            https://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/W...
            - noaa.gov is a government agency website.
            Look at the mission statement-
            to show that 'rising atmospheric CO2 and climate change'. etc.
            That is there is no search for truth, the objective is politics.

            "Future predictions indicate that the oceans will continue to absorb carbon dioxide and become even more acidic."
            My comments-
            1. the usual models..
            2. a thing that is not acidic cannot become more acidic.

            The sea butterfly- photos show the shell dissolving after 45 days "in sea water with pH and carbonate levels projected for the year 2100".
            more projected guff. Yet there is also strong evidence that decreasing alkalinity benefits ocean dwelling organisms.
            The final para has the usual words of- problem, acidification, impossible to predict, blah, that is, a great example of how to get grant money by supporting scares and covering the backside.


            ----------------------------------
            http://www.epoca-project.eu/index.php...
            Possibly, EPOCA got only EU tax money.

            Q and A from this paper-

            Q. 'The ocean is not acidic, and model projections say the oceans won’t ever become acidic. So why call it ocean acidification?'
            A. Yes but if the pH keeps on going etc.
            This answer is provided by James Orr, Senior Scientist .. ..
            (My comment- So, imagine you are a college fresher, you get an av of 8 propositions a week from the opposite sex. Last week you only got 5. You may have become less attractive last week. James Orr, Senior Scientist .. .. says you became unattractive. )

            Q. Would dissolving all the CO2 released by burning all the world’s fossil
            fuel reserves ever make the seas acidic?
            A. No. The fundamental chemistry of the ocean carbon system, including the presence of calcium carbonate minerals on the ocean floor that can slowly dissolve and help neutralize some of the CO2, prevents the oceans from becoming acidic on a global scale.

            You want more?
            You did not say yes but I comment- why use the words acid/acidic when that usage is wrong- it is because of the emotional impact. Fact is that alkalinity can be just as or more harmful as acidity but the word not as good for generating fear.
            In Victorian England there was a big scale murderer, Dr Crippen, who dissolved victims' bodies in acid. Many alkalis would have been effective. Carbonic acid would not.
            ------------------------------

            https://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...
            There was a time, 2 decades back, when I was a regular reader of Scientific American. I recall many references to research on illegal drugs, all claimed that money was only available for studies that showed harmful effects, a paper that had an insufficiently strong negative conclusion would cause funding for that institute to cease. Law, order, government and the do-gooding classes knew what they wanted and were prepared to pay for it. (With your money). When the carbon climate scare ramped up, the link became clear in my mind, but not in the pages of Scientific American or most of the other so-called science journals.

            "Climate change caused by rising levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) is now widely recognized." This statement is correct but the proposition is wrong, typical of a religious belief.
            "We are acidifying the ocean" Basic scare technique, no such effect is happening.
            "balance" The alarmist case claims millennia of stability, the word 'balance' is a favorite with greens/viros/alarmists/progressives.
            "That careful balance"! Who was careful- Gaia or .. .. ?
            Then along came the white male capitalist who burns fossil fuel putting out enormous amounts of carbon emissions/pollution. Before, there was harmony between unicorns, amazons and Atlantis, lions and lambs would 'lie down' together. Then the sacred balance was broken, the Earth's climate was disrupted.
            Fact is, in nature there is no such thing as balance, climate, weather, geology, ecology, species fluctuate and come and go. Nature has a multitude of facets, if one is held constant it will not guarantee the survival of any species.
            The article is weak/lacking on presenting evidence that would support their alarmist proposition of a 'problem', there is no problem.
            ------------------------------

            http://ocean.si.edu/ocean-acidification
            The Smithsonian.
            Gulchers may recall some discussion here about two years ago when the NY Times ran a scurrilous article accusing scientist Willie Soon of corruption. Soon had while at the SI published an article questioning the carbon change scare. The outcry was viscous and widespread, Soon received no support from the SI.

            This ref is all the same, some downright wrong, most misleading, some- not even wrong.
            You may think this is a scientific paper, it seems to be 'educational'.
            I note there is a reviewer who is - Jennifer Bennett (NOAA).

            When you go to the last para- What You Can Do- you see it is of course propaganda.
            "You" are told to reduce your energy" etc. We know that certain big names that skip across the globe in jets, helicopter and limos for conferences are exempt.
            ------------------------------
            Common to all the above-
            High standard of erudition and presentation.
            Sufficient weasel words and get-outs so it is hard to show they are wrong,
            no, ' you will never see snow again' type of statement.
            The same person pays for it all - you.
            ---------------------------------------
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            • Posted by $ 6 years, 2 months ago
              I am not going to argue if it is political, because the left has politicized EVERYTHING, so that immediately says most science, is not science, but science for show. That said, the acidification issue IS still valid, if something is ph 5 and moves to 5.1, it is becoming MORE acidic, and less base. Is it harmful? I don't know, but I have never had much luck with fish, fresh or salt, as they always end up croaking, despite all my best efforts and mucho money for testers and chemicals. I don't object to the term as it is descriptive, but also is probably a weapon used for emotional support, "acidification" sounds really bad. I also don't know if the issue is one of concern or not, but I would still say that their "skewed" look at things has enough validity to warrant more investigation. Unfortunately, more investigation always seems to have an additional price tag on it. It is hard to find ANY objective science is these cases, as all the scientists are being paid by someone, and someone always wants the results they are paying for.
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              • Posted by Lucky 6 years, 2 months ago
                Ah nickursis
                Thank you for the above comment as it reinforced a lesson,
                anything important must be kept short.

                A summary, the Epoca article that you quoted, squelches the scare.

                The big problem is not mendacity, it is mushy thinking.
                If people could think they could resist the scaremongers.
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                • Posted by $ 6 years, 2 months ago
                  All true, Lucky, just becomes painful to separate fact from political fiction these days. Even harder when the "fact people" have sold out for grants and contracts to "research the problem". I don't discount such sources, but I agree with your points in how they can be manipulated in presentation and tone, as well as keywords, but they may have kernels of real facts in there...somewhere...maybe....
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  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 6 years, 2 months ago
    The Global Warming pack is desperately trying to deny that that the sun has anything to do with temperature variation. Of course it's been known for a long time that climate followed the 11 year cycle. William Herschel published a paper in 1801 indicating a correlation between wheat prices and the solar cycle. (Interestingly over the years Wikipedia has increasingly diminished that statement -- but you can still get online copies of his paper and see yourself).

    Big news on this subject was made by Professor V. Zharkova who's team has analyzed the underlying patterns and can apparently do a good job of predicting the intensity of solar cycles. This is the source of the prediction of a Maunder minimum in solar cycle 26.

    Interestingly if you backward from the Maunder minimum about 375 years you get a cold period that marked the end of the Medieval Warm Period and ended with the Black Death.
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