I'm curious, were there any lawyers in the Gulch?

Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 9 months ago to Books
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I don't seem to remember any lawyers. I might be wrong. There was Judge Narragansett, but that's a judge not a lawyer.


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  • Posted by conscious1978 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Respectfully Robbie, A is A...not Robbie's A or my A...just A is A. There isn't an a la carte interpretation of Galt's oath where you can choose your 'definitions' off the shelf.

    Rand chose the wording of Galt's oath because of the significant fundamental ideas it encompasses.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I do live the oath, using my definitions. So long as Objectivism advocates insist on atheism, I'm not interested. I am highly interested in Christian Egoism.

    Why would you say that I'm "highly critical" of Objectivism? I find most of it perfectly acceptable. What I find problematic is the fundamental premise that owning oneself is self-evident. To me that has been shown to be untrue by historical evidence. I can no more reconcile that than you can reconcile that I believe that the same was bestowed on humanity by God. In fact, my derivation makes more sense, as God gave humans free-will, so some of them choose to use force to oppress their fellow man despite the fact that God gave each of us freedom. The "self-evident" theory would say that freedom should be the norm not the anomaly. I see Objectivism as being Pollyannaish regarding human nature, whereas theist teachings are more pragmatic regarding human failings.

    I think that I've said this before, but for the starting point, my moral philosophy and Objectivism are pretty much congruent.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The spending pattern began increasing in the 80's reaching a peak in the 90's and then tapered off through 2010.
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  • Posted by khalling 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Well Objectivism defines the Oath. I am frustrated that you are highly critical of Objectivism without looking a little more into it. But if I agreed to be in or start a gulch, I wouldn't just ask card carrying Objectivists. Galt asked producers to leave, I don't think he had some petty checklist. Producers stand out. They live the Oath...whether they understood it or not.
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  • Posted by khalling 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Did you mean Clinton? peak spending is a useful tool, but many other factors are at play in wealth creation and a booming economy. Look at the interest rates when Reagan came in to office-I think they even nudged a little higher under him under he starting turning around the ship by slowing down the regulatory system, he cut marginal tax rates, strengthened the patent system., etc. Clinton first and foremost inherited a fundamentally sounder economy, and under Gingrich, they slowed the rate of spending.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    His genius, if you will, was in getting people to believe in him and in the cause. The Continental Army lost most every battle, but got very lucky in the few critical ones that really mattered - plus an enemy that relied too heavily on conscripts and mercenaries, not fighting for a cause.

    One of the true "innovations" during the Revolution was not even a Washington or von Steuben developed tactic. It was those pesky colonist farmers (militia) who thought it better to hide behind trees and fire at the red coats (very easy to pick out, what with their red coats). The tactics of the day were to line up in a skirmish line 3 deep, the first course firing, the second aiming, and the 3rd reloading. The Brits complained about the colonists "not fighting fair" by hiding behind trees. I see this innovation in warfare tactics similar to the asymmetric warfare happening today. As I type this, I just got a notice that a 2 star gen was killed inside the Afghan military academy compound. That, too, is "not fair" but is something that we have to adapt to or lose.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    True. Reagan had the benefit of a demographic that was approaching peak spending. Largest boom in population growth (ever, I believe) reaching their peak spending period (46.5 yrs after birth - so that started in 1991 for the boomers born in 1945). Ten years earlier, they would have been in their mid-30's. Think about your own spending pattern, that's when many start increasing their incomes and buying more stuff, with it reaching a peak by 46.5.

    Even Carter would have looked like a competent president had he been elected in 1992. You would have had to try very hard to screw up that economy.

    Likewise, whomever is elected in 2016 will at best need to keep gov't out of the way so as not to further degrade the economy, but it won't likely rebound to any significant degree until the early '20's (children of the baby boomers).
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  • Posted by khalling 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    good point. I'm no expert on military leadership, but I think the "insurmountable odds" part as a leader in the military and a fledgling country, indicates some brilliance.
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  • Posted by khalling 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    my view of admirable, yes, if I am creating a gulch.
    the standard for admittance culminates in living the Oath.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thus is why we live in a republic. Thus is why I cite the Constitution and will have no truck with "precedence" or SCOTUS "interpretations" of the Constitution.
    ---
    "Cogley: "Books, young man, books. Thousands of them. If time wasn't so important, I'd show you something. My library. Thousands of books."

    Captain James T. Kirk: "And what would be the point?"

    Cogley: "This is where the law is. Not in that homogenized, pasteurized synthesizer. Do you want to know the law? The ancient concepts in their own language? Learn the intent of the men who wrote them, from Moses to the tribunal of Alpha III? Books."

    Captain James T. Kirk: "You have to be either an obsessive crackpot who's escaped from his keeper, or Samuel T. Cogley, attorney at law."

    Cogley: "You're right on both counts. Need a lawyer?"

    Captain James T. Kirk: "I'm afraid so. "
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "They chose their field I assume with some care"

    Negative. One of the things they had in common was that they were renaissance men. Adams was a farmer. Also a lawyer.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    And one of my favorite characters in literature is Jubal Harshaw, also a lawyer - yet so much more.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually, Hoover was only "terrible" because he had been left an economy verging on popping the largest "bubble" in history - by Calvin Coolidge - you guessed it, a lawyer.

    Hoover dealt with the economic collapse poorly, no doubt, but wasn't the cause.

    I'll give you Carter - but then just look at his schooling and that will tell a lot ;-)
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  • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    A system of private police, insurance, and arbitration services has a well thought out method of implementation.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Trouble is, they control the body of law/regulations and can change it seemingly faster than an external entity can react. Look at tax law, for instance. I don't know about you, but I'm still getting updates to my electronic tax prep software well into March.
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  • Posted by khalling 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Well those contracts will often be about ptoperty transfers. There is a process to creating property which law is integral to.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Well, truth be told, Washington wasn't a "brilliant military leader." He was a fair tactician and strategist, but was able to hold both soldier and legislator together under seemingly insurmountable odds. A little luck (or was that divine providence?) didn't hurt, either.
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  • Posted by khalling 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Again, we are focusing on procedural problems, which need to be fixed. We can see many of the founding fathers were lawyers. Hoover and Carter were engineers and terrible Presidents. Both Bushes had business degrees. Individuals, including lawyers, want to fundamentally reform an over -burdensome regulatory welfare state. The judge in the Gulch was a lawyer. The first president of the United States studied law but lead us to our founding as a brilliant military leader.
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