You Can Call Them Scandals Now, by Robert Gore

Posted by straightlinelogic 6 years, 2 months ago to Government
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The Deep State’s worst nightmare was never that Donald Trump would improve relations with Russia. What keeps it awake, shaking and screaming in the darkness, is the prospect of exposure and prosecution for decades of criminality. For the first time since John F. Kennedy, the Deep State is being challenged. An inflection point may have been reached. If so, legal developments will take on a life of their own, ultimately beyond the control of congressional committees, Sessions, Trump, or anyone else.

This is an excerpt. For the complete article, please click the above link.
SOURCE URL: https://straightlinelogic.com/2018/01/23/you-can-call-them-scandals-now-by-robert-gore/


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  • Posted by Lucky 6 years, 2 months ago
    Your list of Trump's achievements has been selected to show the accord with views of Deep State. Point made well, especially the description of what Deep State is.

    It is still worth mentioning the achievements that resonate with the Gulch:
    1 Out of the Paris climate agreement
    2 Squelching the EPA
    3 Countermanding many of Blank's directives
    4 Tax cuts
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    • Posted by 6 years, 2 months ago
      This article was not meant to either extol or condemn Trump, except to the extent Trump is endeavoring to uncover the truth. The point was to say that the uncovering the truth process may have reached critical mass and an inflection point where it takes on a life of its own. Secondarily, it was meant to explore the legal ramifications.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 6 years, 2 months ago
    We live in hopes. It looks as if about 30% of the legislature may need to resign. Or simply go to jail ("a consumation devoutly to be wished"....Willie The Shake.)
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  • Posted by $ blarman 6 years, 2 months ago
    I'm unimpressed by your list. Most of it is stuff that has been happening through multiple Presidencies and is rather well known. I'm not seeing conspiracy in any of this with the possible exception of #10 where it came to Hillary Clinton's State Department being used to fuel Al Queda rebels against Syria...

    1. Significantly increased the already bloated military and intelligence budgets
    This is a debate all its own. The one thing to remember: the House of Representatives controls the Budget - not the President or even the Senate.

    2. Increased troop levels in Afghanistan, Syria, and Iraq
    And you are for or against this?

    3. Increased US special forces operations around the world, especially in Africa
    Again: For or against?

    4. Given US military field commanders more latitude to conduct operations
    Given the ridiculous constraints imposed by the former CinC, this is unequivocably a positive. You can't task someone to get a job done then handcuff them.

    5. Encouraged NATO forces to increase strength and display force around Russia’s western perimeter
    Given Russia's antagonism and invasion of Ukraine, this is bad why, exactly?

    6. Sent arms to Ukraine’s corrupt government so it can better harass eastern Ukrainian separatists, who are supported by Russia
    Ukraine is an ally. Russia isn't. Not sure what the big deal is here unless you're an isolationist.

    7. Strengthened US ties with Israel and Saudi Arabia, supporting the latter’s vicious war in Yemen
    The first is unequivocably a good thing. Israel is the only representative democracy in the region. They respect human rights and are a producing and inventing nation despite their neighbors and no oil. The latter is a frenemy. There's no question they don't act in America's best interests at times, but I'd rather have them fighting Yemen's nutcases than us.

    8. Threatened to abrogate the Iranian nuclear agreement
    The agreement was a fraud in the first place being never ratified by the Senate.

    9. Threatened preemptive war in North Korea
    And it worked. How did we get to where we are now? Policies of appeasement from Clinton through to Obama.

    10. Brokered billions of dollars worth of US arms sales
    So?

    If this is your evidence of the Deep State, it's rather uninspiring.

    Here's my evidence of the Deep State:

    1. Revelations that Mueller headed the FBI when the Uranium One deal was going through the State Department and Hillary was Secretary.
    2. Revelations that Comey had already drafted the exoneration message regarding Hillary and her email server before even interviewing any key witnesses.
    2a. The immunity grants to key witnesses in the Hillary email scandal.
    2b. The irregular interrogation techniques in the Hillary email scandal, ie allowing witnesses to act as attorneys for other witnesses, agreeing to immunity deals before even knowing their involvement, the excluding of various personal devices from evidentiary proceedings, etc.
    3. The meeting of Loretta Lynch with Bill Clinton
    4. Revelations that high-ranking FBI members were actively orchestrating a so-called "fail-safe" against then-candidate Donald Trump in the event he was voted in.
    5. Continual leaks from inside the administration exposing confidential matters regarding the transition of Presidential power.

    and I'm sure I could come up with more.
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    • Posted by 6 years, 2 months ago
      I think you missed my point. The list was not meant to impress. I've said from the beginning of Trump's term that the Deep State is more afraid of Trump uncovering DS criminality, some of which you cite, rather than because of policy differences between it and Trump. The list of 10 items I cite are items in which I think Trump has done things that are essentially in accordance with DS policy preferences. They support my main contention: there are few policy differences between Trump and the DS, and that is not why the DS is so hostile to Trump. That's the purpose of the list, not to say whether I think the policies cited are good or bad, although I think you can tell from adjectives I use ("bloated," "corrupt," "vicious") on some of the items my feelings on those particular policies. Nonetheless, the main point is that Trump and the DS are aligned on the policies cited. Your list supports my contention that the DS fears far more that its criminality could be exposed and prosecuted than it does Trump's policies.
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      • Posted by $ blarman 6 years, 2 months ago
        Then maybe you can clarify what the list was supposed to represent, because if you call these "Deep State" actions I'm just going to politely disagree that they are relevant - especially given my suggestions. You may have political differences over the projection of American power overseas (which the vast majority of your list refers to), but this has been standard policy since WW II - hardly "Deep State". If you want to elaborate, maybe I'm just missing something, but "Deep State" to me involves things that the elites don't want the American people knowing about - and these are anything but that.

        No, the more problematic things involve the corruption and ideology embedded in the bureaucracies such as the Department of Energy, IRS, Department of Interior, FBI, Justice Department, Homeland Security, CIA/NSA, etc. The bigger threat to liberty comes from Congress' willingness to cede legislative authority to these bureaucracies full of unelected, lifetime zealots - like Peter Strok, James Comey, et al.
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        • Posted by 6 years, 2 months ago
          Perhaps our difference here turns on definitions, but I would say that the "standard policy since WWII," "the projection of American power overseas," is the very essence of the Deep State. My definition or understanding of the Deep State is that it is inextricably interlinked with the military-industrial-intelligence complex. That complex derives its power and funding from US foreign and military policies of intervention. I agree with you that this is well-known, but that does not mean that it is not the lifeblood of the Deep State.

          And that gets me back to my point that Trump has supported this aspect of the Deep State down the line, which means its animus towards him is not based in policy. That is what my list is meant to represent, and the point that it is meant to help establish.

          I also agree with you that that embedded corruption and ideology are "problematic." I would use stronger terms, like "endemic" and "a grave threat to the American people." I have repeatedly expressed the hope that Trump will move against them, which I think he has. Now whether that corruption is "more problematic" than what I regard as the utter foolishness and corruption of US foreign and military policy is another question. I think the latter feeds the former (see "U-Turn or Detour," https://straightlinelogic.com/2018/01.... They both pose huge threats to liberty and what remains of the America we knew and cherished.
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          • Posted by $ blarman 6 years, 2 months ago
            Thank you for clarifying, though of the two, I consider inherent bias in the bureaucracy a far larger threat to societal freedoms than the "military-industrial" complex.

            Can our spying and military options be abused? Insofar as it is a bureaucracy run by ideologues, absolutely. But the one begets the other and in my opinion you are putting the cart before the horse. Using our covert operations to take out terrorists abroad is not nearly the threat to liberty that the IRS targeting by Lois Lerner presents, nor the NSA wiretapping and collection of metadata about US Citizens' phone calls, nor the FBI using a false political document in a FISA court to spy on an opposition's political team. And none of those options depended on the so-called military-industrial complex. All they required was a few people in positions of power to abuse that power and threaten the liberties of all Americans.

            Anyway, with regards to Trump moving against the embedded corruption, the President - fortunately or unfortunately - has only limited power over the Executive due to several acts of Congress. About the only thing he can do is appoint Heads over the various bureaucracies who can work to try to eliminate those who work in those offices who are overtly biased. And the real problem is that patriotic citizens don't go work for the government - excluding the military - they work for private industry. Yes, I completely agree that reducing or eliminating staff in these bureaucracies is paramount, but the real key to that lies in Congress, who just doesn't have either the desire or the backbone to reform the various agencies they have spawned.
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  • Posted by Zero 6 years, 2 months ago
    I know I'm going to regret this, but what exactly is the "deep state"?
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    • Posted by $ gharkness 6 years, 2 months ago
      I was wondering the same. Not trying to "prove" anything here, so please don't scorn my use of Wikipedia. Just wanted to get an idea of what we are talking about.

      Deep state in the United States
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      < >
      In the United States, the term "deep state" describes a form of alleged cabal that coordinates efforts by government employees and others to influence state policy without regard for democratically elected leadership.[1][2][3] The use of the term as applied to the United States has been dismissed by numerous journalists and academics as a conspiracy theory.[4][5][6][7] The term has also been used to refer to alleged cabals in countries such as Turkey and post-Soviet Russia.[8][9] In the United States, the term has been used in numerous published titles written by, for example, Marc Ambinder, David W. Brown, Peter Dale Scott, Mike Lofgren, and Michael Wolff.

      The term gained popularity in some circles during the 2016 U.S. presidential election in opposition to establishment Republican and Democratic candidates, and has also been used in 2017 and 2018 during the Trump administration by commentators who argue that deep states are aiming to delegitimize the Trump presidency.[10]

      For further information, Google is your buddy :-)
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