Kansas Forces Craigslist Sperm Donor to Pay Child Support For Child of Lesbian Couple

Posted by khalling 4 years, 10 months ago to Government
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I'm not sure which angle to even begin with here. Welfare, sexuality identification, state over reach....
I'll pick this: If you get your sperm donor from Craigslist, your kid might have huge health bills
Also, I almost can't pick a category. I almost picked pics (because the pictures are kind of entertaining) :)

Read "Kansas Forces Craigslist Sperm Donor to Pay Child Support For Child of Lesbian Couple" now: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...
SOURCE URL: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2255241/Sperm-donor-ordered-pay-child-support-lesbian-couple-despite-giving-rights-child.html


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  • Posted by  $  jmlesniewski 4 years, 10 months ago
    I'm not sure how the couple being lesbians ISN'T relevant. If gays are supposed to be able to adopt or have kids on their own (via egg or sperm donation), why should the donor ever be responsible for the child? Also, if these were two gay men and the donor was a female, would she ever be asked to pay child support?
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    • Posted by 4 years, 10 months ago
      your last question is a good one. and I think the answer might be yes-if she was a producer. Your first point I will have to disagree with. Hetero couples utilize artificial insemination, so why wouldn't the outcome of this case have bearing on ANY couples looking for donors? I'm going to post another article that shows judicial prejudice against single vs. married victims, and perhaps we can discuss the overlap with this post.
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      • Posted by  $  jmlesniewski 4 years, 10 months ago
        Straight couples don't exist in the same cultural context as gay couples. As unfortunate as it may be, gay couples are looking to gain legitimacy in the eyes of the public.
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        • Posted by 4 years, 10 months ago
          Well, there are more legal steps to take. The birth mother/father is the parent. His/her partner must adopt and go through all state outlined procedures. You can draw up a contract to to handle all these situations. This usually goes smoothly, but not always. This is the first time I have heard of the State pursuing what all other parties say was an acceptable arrangement. See, this is part of the whole trainwreck thing. Most couples making this decision have to have the means to carry out their part of the contract. That things look sort of murky here to the State (well according to them) leaves doubt. Of course we don't have all the facts, but as far as US culture goes, we have standard setups for this kind of thing. Where it usually falls apart is when you have a birth parent break their contractual arrangement. Honestly, that can go either way for any of the contracting/adopting parties, even all hetero ones. I really think the partnership arrangements play no role in the State's actions.
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          • Posted by  $  jmlesniewski 4 years, 10 months ago
            Legal vs cultural. I never said there was a difference legally. I said the difference is cultural. The only reason this is news is because the couple is gay.
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            • Posted by 4 years, 10 months ago
              completely disagree
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              • Posted by  $  jmlesniewski 4 years, 10 months ago
                Then you're wrong. This wouldn't have been reported had the couple been straight.
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                • Posted by 4 years, 10 months ago
                  what makes this story stand out is that the couple did not go through the standard, accepted method for sperm donor. that's why they were tagged. the article reports above about an estranged hetero couple-same concerns, the state stepped in.
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                  • Posted by  $  jmlesniewski 4 years, 10 months ago
                    That's not what most people will read the story will see. They'll see a lesbian couple trying to be parents without a man then turning around and asking the man that donated his sperm to them for money because it contradicts homosexuals saying they can raise children the same as straight parents.
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                    • Posted by 4 years, 10 months ago
                      finally, we get to your point. I have posted on this previously, but I will answer "them."
                      I know several gay couples. They are long term partnered (like any married couple). They lead stable lives and they have children. Their contracts with sperm donor, whom they did not meet, was a sound one. Their adoption (in these cases one partner) went off without a hitch. Their children, lovely and happy. Their burden on the State? Zero. would they make the papers? No.
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                      • Posted by  $  jmlesniewski 4 years, 10 months ago
                        I am not talking about myself personally. I do not have a problem with gays adopting or having children. I am talking about what the average reader will see when reading the story and thus why it was written,
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                        • Posted by 4 years, 10 months ago
                          I understand. I am still disagreeing with you on the average reader. this involves real people. more than you and I know about, who enter into these contracts. it is huge "news" to them when a state makes decisions that affect their lives . yes, the british tabloid was how I hooked into it-probably via Drudge. but my point in posting was a cautionary tale, unfortunately revolving around real people out there,
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                          • Posted by  $  jmlesniewski 4 years, 10 months ago
                            The average reader doesn't care about contracts and the State. No one reads an article about gays and thinks "wow, the State is overstepping its bounds."
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                            • Posted by 4 years, 10 months ago
                              well I guess I'm glad that you don't see me as average. :) But look at the title of my post. I start with the state forcing someone to do something. and you're right, the avg reader doesn't really care about contracts of this nature, but alot of them know people who have used a sperm donor or artificial insemination or carry donor. and they might wonder, hey, does this ever go wrong? or, hey this went wrong. why-either seriously interested or just being voyeur. also some people feel a satisfaction over the idea that these people tempted fate-and it didn't end well. I would like to think there's not many of the last type, but I'm afraid it might be average.
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                • Posted by 4 years, 10 months ago
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                  • Posted by  $  jmlesniewski 4 years, 10 months ago
                    That's not the same story. That story is about two people who were married.
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                    • Posted by WWJGD 4 years, 10 months ago
                      It IS the same story, or might as well be. It's the same damn story all over the damn country: men are dying, living on the street, living in their cars -- thanks to the child-support Nazis while the women, who oftentimes conceived through fraud, are living high on the hog.

                      Men are being destroyed, and nobody cares. Were it not for the woman I'm now with, who just happens to be a paralegal, I would be among the dead myself.
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                      • Posted by LetsShrug 4 years, 10 months ago
                        How does a "woman conceive through fraud" ?
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                        • Posted by WWJGD 4 years, 10 months ago
                          Oh, gawd, let me count the ways...

                          Let's start with the ones that have happened to ME:

                          "Oh, we don't need to use protection. I'm sterile..."

                          And the ex who palmed her birth control pills at a time when we couldn't afford another baby... because she wanted a baby and wanted it NOW dammit and to Hell with the health insurance waiting period on my new job!

                          There's the case in California where some woman named a soldier deployed in Iraq as the father. He couldn't contest the paternity -- he never even HEARD about it -- until he returned. Too late under California law. AFAIK he's still paying for a baby that isn't his.

                          Without getting salacious, there are several ways a welfare queen can get ahold of some semen and impregnate herself without the man's knowledge.

                          Enough?
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                          • Posted by LetsShrug 4 years, 10 months ago
                            So, you're saying it is possible to get a hold of a man's semen without his knowledge... I've been mulling this over for 15 minutes and I can not think of how I could do that without him knowing I had some of his semen. I think this theory is paranoid and far fetched.
                            Have you ever heard of condoms? Or a vasectomy?? I mean, if you really don't wanna make a baby, but you really wanna have sex then maybe a vasectomy (heck, AND a condom, just for extra measure, if you will) might be the best route to guarantee that that wicked welfare queen doesn't get a bun in her oven (wittle baby widget). (btw...have you screwed welfare queens??? If so...that's a pretty large red flag a wavin' there with words in big bold letters yelling, "KNOCK ME UP, SUCKA!")
                            My point is this...and these are my exact words to my sons, "in this day and age, with all of the contraceptive devices on the market, you have to be a fucking moron to get a girl pregnant". (It didn't do any good, as it turns out, but hey, I said it at least.) Let's face it...men...some men (maybe most..I don't know I'm not one) lack reason when so much of their brain blood is...else where...BUT that does not remove your responsibility in the making of a baby, as a woman (welfare queen or not) can NOT get pregnant without your conscious contribution (meaning you have to be awake for this ...exchange to occur.)...Unless she's an MD who specializes in vasectomies and puts you under to...tie the knot...and steals a little gift while she's at it.... cuz THAT scenario happens ALL THE TIME. Right?
                            Sounds like you've had a few kids...that magically appeared without your INput. After what number kid did you learn the lesson of keeping it in your pants...or in a raincoat at least??
                            If you make a baby, (excluding the stolen semen tactic) then you have a monetary obligation....like it or not. If you fall for the oldest trick in the book "I'm on the pill" ...that makes you stupid, on top of being horny, but not any less responsible for the cost to raise it. (Other wise I, we, other people have to pay for your kid(s)...and we definitely had NO part of it.) Take some blame for your actions. The gulch is all about self responsibility.... have a dose.
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                            • Posted by WWJGD 4 years, 10 months ago
                              I never said anything about getting hold of a man's semen without his knowledge. You left out half of that sentence.

                              Yes, I've heard of condoms and vascectomies. DUH. Shouldn't be necessary in marriage now, should they? There's this little thing called TRUST... as in, trusting your spouse to be truthful with you...

                              And a vasectomy only makes sense if you're all done having kids. We were not; the agreement was that we would wait until the health insurance kicked in.

                              And these are MY exact words to MY sons: Boys, women LIE. They will LIE through their teeth to you.

                              The rest of your post is nothing but a blame-throwing shame-fest. Please, can we just act like grownups around here when the subject comes around to sex?

                              Thanks in advance...
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                              • Posted by LetsShrug 4 years, 10 months ago
                                "Without getting salacious, there are several ways a welfare queen can get ahold of some semen and impregnate herself without the man's knowledge."
                                Please explain this sentence then (unbutchered).

                                I have also told my sons that girls will lie through their teeth. They aren't angels.

                                You sounded very "blame-throwing" yourself....which is why I responded how I did... It takes 2...always has...always will (minus the confiscated sperm maneuvers...donors etc...which still takes 2 if you boil it down.)
                                Stop thanking me in advance. It's pushy...and a little condescending...and not very grown up like when were discussing important issues of the day.
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                                • Posted by  $  jmlesniewski 4 years, 10 months ago
                                  I agree with you. It's improper induction to say "I was treated poorly, therefore all women are evil and there is a war against men." There are a lot of messed up people of both genders. You have to really watch your back or you're going to get hurt.
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                    • Posted by 4 years, 10 months ago
                      My exact point. The same question regarding paternity is involved and it made the news. I agree that adding "lesbian couple" in the headline was meant to titillate, however, I maintained from the beginning that the compelling part of the story revolves around parental rights. Gay couples grapple with this issue in their private lives hugely. that aside, where I see the humor, is sooo many things did not go well here, and most center on poor decision making.
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                      • Posted by  $  jmlesniewski 4 years, 10 months ago
                        The man was married to the woman in this story. That makes it completely different than an independent sperm donor.
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                        • Posted by 4 years, 10 months ago
                          then why was that story news?
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                          • Posted by  $  jmlesniewski 4 years, 10 months ago
                            Because they were once married.
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                            • Posted by 4 years, 10 months ago
                              I'm kind of laughing that we don't get each other's point. "that makes it completely different than an independent sperm donor" and I'll add here lesbians.
                              That is exactly my point. by your logic, who cares about this estranged couple's legal issues with artificial insemination? That's not "news" like it happening to a gay couple. and my point is, it made the news, there's no big gay drama, ONLY a dispute over parental rights where artificial insemination played a role. to restate, sperm donor/artificial insemination/carry donor and conflicts tend to make the news.
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                              • Posted by  $  jmlesniewski 4 years, 10 months ago
                                It made the news because of the interpersonal issue, not the contractual issue. That is my point. I can't state it more clearly.
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                                • Posted by 4 years, 10 months ago
                                  ok, I now see what you're saying. but I disagree that parental rights are not part of what is interesting about the story and that parental rights challenges in court make news all the time which was illustrated in the story above. can we agree both may play a role? after all, there is a whole network devoted to court cases, and popular shows on tv revolving around contractual issues.
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                                  • jmlesniewski replied 4 years, 10 months ago
                                • Posted by LetsShrug 4 years, 10 months ago
                                  Sorry I gotta jump in here..... the story is... SOMEONE GOT SPERM OFF OF CRAIGSLIST!. SOMEONE DONATED SPERM...VIA CRAIGSLIST. It's ridiculous. THAT'S why it's getting attention.
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                                  • jmlesniewski replied 4 years, 10 months ago
        • Posted by WWJGD 4 years, 10 months ago
          Amen, brother. And while I disagree vehemently with their tactics (i.e., use of force), I agree with their stated end goal of acceptance.

          If only their STATED goal was their ACTUAL goal, but that's a topic for 'nuther thread.
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      • Posted by LetsShrug 4 years, 10 months ago
        Because they go thru the proper legal means...not Craigslist.
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        • Posted by 4 years, 10 months ago
          although the updated article makes reference to a badly worded, dated contract, the donor's attorney has cried foul. I agree that the State seems to accept certain arrangements over others, but I would contend that if the contract was executed correctly, it would be valid, and therefore the burden would be on the State to show why it favors one contractual arrangement over the other, if all are valid.
          1)not a lawyer
          2)not a rational plan to get your donor from Craigslist
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 4 years, 10 months ago
    The pictures WERE entertaining. These "adults" have made a mess of things and now we're on the hook to pay for it. People take these risks because they really aren't all that risky, to THEM, because we have too many safety nets to pay the bill for bad decisions. As for the donor...(and his wife..the couple who run a foster home for kids)...REALLY?? I have a friend who fosters dogs...she's an absolute Nazi about people getting their animals neutered. (That's all I'm sayin').
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  • Posted by jim375 4 years, 10 months ago
    i think this guy ought to fight this all the way to the supreme court....another way for homo's to stick it to straight people. makes me sick
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  • Posted by  $  jmlesniewski 4 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No. I can't agree to that. The average reader doesn't care about "rights" when looking at news stories. That's why the networks and shows you mention focus on interpersonal drama, not the philosophy of law.
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    • Posted by 4 years, 10 months ago
      the philosophy of law is different from how will a court decide in a disagreement. else, we'd look at the interpersonal drama on the street instead of a court room. I never disagreed that interpersonal drama motivates readers. I do not see that a lesbian couple =interpersonal drama.
      I do agree that this story might draw polarizing opinions, which is why it makes news. "I think the state should go after the donor!" "I don't think so-there was a contract giving up his rights!" and you'll see that debate right here in the post.
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      • Posted by  $  jmlesniewski 4 years, 10 months ago
        It's not about what you see. It's about what the average person sees, and they do see lesbian couple attempting to raise a child = drama.
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        • Posted by 4 years, 10 months ago
          but the story doesn't read like that. it's all about the sperm donor getting hit with paying child support. then it's about the couple splitting and in the follow on article discusses the adopting of 7 children over a 7 year period culminating in deciding to have the las 8th child which is what the State's case is about. that completely equals drama. I still do not agree that lesbians raising children(your bias is showing :))=drama to average people. however, I have not looked at any US wide polls on this. I'll go try to find one to test your point.
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  • Posted by  $  jmlesniewski 4 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That and the couple is gay. Both pieces of information are in the headline of the actual article!
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    • Posted by 4 years, 10 months ago
      I already agreed that the article was full of train wreck scenarios. I do NOT agree that the ONLY reason it made news was because a gay couple was involved in the story. and it did not matter to me in posting whether the couple was gay or not. everything else about their choices and decisions outlined in the article with their own quotes and freely offered up pictures and yes sperm donor from Craigslist (although I will argue the State doesn't get to define the terms of the contract) was hard to pass up reading it in the first place.
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  • Posted by WWJGD 4 years, 10 months ago
    An update, this from Fox News:

    "William Marotta ... suggested he might be a victim of bias against same-sex parenting. 'I have a hunch part of the reason this is going this way is because of people’s feelings toward same-sex couples,' Marotta told FoxNews.com.

    Aw, gee, ya think?

    Yeah. So do I.


    The article: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/03/wom...
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    • Posted by LetsShrug 4 years, 10 months ago
      I disagree. Poor decision making is to blame. (And I'm not referring to the "decision" to be gay or not either so don't go there.)
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      • Posted by WWJGD 4 years, 10 months ago
        Deleting my comment and starting over:

        Uh huh. Yeah, I guess that explains all of the tittering over "the pictures," eh?

        I guess it also explains the snide remarks over a woman (two women, actually) who "swing both ways," 'coz that obviously has EVERTHING to do with "poor choices."

        Give me a break. Het people make poor choices -- worse than these -- every day. But you don't see them splashed all over the pages of a sensationalist Brit tabloid now, do you? No, this story is getting press -- and was posted here -- because of its sensationalistic value.
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        • Posted by LetsShrug 4 years, 10 months ago
          I've "tittered" over plenty of pictures. Sometimes pictures are humorous. I've seen some great Red Neck ones which made me "titter" all over the place and I'm probably borderline Red neck myself (shall I say I swing both ways in the Red Neck world??) I've "tittered" over those pictures that people take on the sly of other people while they're in WalMart too THEY'RE FUNNY!!...Stop trying to make things about an issue that you're sensitive about... And BTW...I think your choice of the word "tittered" was extremely offensive, like I'm some dumb woman without a brain. (Not really, just trying to make a point.) Relax WWJGD...I'm not a hater. If you're hell bent on making me out to be one...then go for it. I don't seek your approval...nor do I need it, but I'd rather we be friends. :)
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          • Posted by WWJGD 4 years, 10 months ago
            Again, the Real Story here is the overreach of the State into someone's private affairs, not sitting in judgement of someone because their standards for "stability" etc. are different than yours (note that the women were in a committed, monogamous relationship, which seems to fit most people's definition of "stable" -- except for the small matter of them being a same-sex couple...).

            If the State didn't offer charity, paid for by forcing money from others at gunpoint, didn't interfere in private contracts through Draconian "child support" laws, and didn't blatantly violate the 14th Amendment by bringing the full force of the State down upon a certain scapegoated gender...

            ... then everyone would be better off. The man's rights wouldn't have been violated, the mother would be forced to either find work or go to a proper agent of charity (i.e., one whose donors are voluntary), and all would be facing the consequences of their own poor choices, which would be defined in their own terms rather than a third party who thinks all of this is funny.
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            • Posted by LetsShrug 4 years, 10 months ago
              The lack of stability was a) adopting more kids than you can handle (in my opinion....8? yikes), b)seeking a sperm donor on Craigslist.. c) revealing said sperm donors name (when that was supposed to stay private!!) to gain financial aide, and d) on the part of the donor... for donating his sperm via Craigslist. THOSE were my issues that showed a lack of stability in a person's decision making, none of which has anything to do with being gay or straight or Bi or "scapegoated gender" or anything else. She revealed his name when SHE got the State involved (they weren't involved until then). Who's the "third party who thinks all of this is funny"????
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              • Posted by 4 years, 10 months ago
                e)they were together a total of 8 years, collected 7 kids, had a sperm donated eighth kid THEN broke up- f) the guy who the mom has now hooked up with has his hand over her belly like she's having a 9th kid(there was no mention of that in the article-I'm waiting for that to come out) g) went out of their way to be in the limelight.
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        • Posted by 4 years, 10 months ago
          I do not titter. I full out laugh. You're a photographer-use your critical eye. we all have dopey pics of ourselves-that they picked those(including the sperm donor's) to share with the newspaper makes me laugh. get over it already.
          I do not care what their sexual preferences are. But I can look at public information like 8 kids in an 8 year period then a big split on welfare as probably not the most rational plan. and I can laugh at it. the story would still be rich if it were a hetero couple who got sperm from a craigslist donor with the same pictures! if it makes you feel better, I hope the sperm donor wins his case against the state. That'll teach the state to not let people adopt 8 kids in 8 years who are on welfare.
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          • Posted by WWJGD 4 years, 10 months ago
            Uh huh. You do not care what their sexual preferences are, yet you make fun of a woman who "swings both ways."

            Remember what Francisco D'Anconia said about contradictions...
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            • Posted by LetsShrug 4 years, 10 months ago
              I did NOT make fun...I mentioned it, as a point of reference...not the same thing. Do you honestly think I've got some vendetta against gays/bi's/or straight men? (Gotta cover all involved in this story). I want an honest answer.
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              • Posted by WWJGD 4 years, 10 months ago
                Short answer: yes. Which is why I've been beating this now-dead horse.

                You're obviously not aware of it, and meant no malice. But it's still rather apparent in your original remarks.
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                • Posted by LetsShrug 4 years, 10 months ago
                  Okay...I'm off to call my gay aunt, and her x lover (who is now married to a man) and let them know that WWJGD, on an Atlas forum, has declared me a bigot in denial. They will laugh their asses off. Oh, no, wait...they'll TITTER their asses off.

                  (WWJGD...seriously, who's judging who here??)
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                  • Posted by WWJGD 4 years, 10 months ago
                    I'm just pointing out the contradictions between your words and your deeds.

                    It's up to you to decide which is the real you.

                    Added later: FWIW, I've been accused -- recently -- of the same thing. It took me a while, but I finally decided that perhaps I had crossed a line... and I'm a tiny bit more careful what I say around that person (a bi woman, if it matters) now a days. I think all of us hetero people can unintentionally say hurtful things about the gay/bi folks now and then. And let's not even get started on some of the things they say about US!

                    There is even a certain Willie Nelson song that I've retired from my karaoke repertoire, out of respect for said woman's feelings.

                    So don't take it personally, please. I'm not attacking YOU, I'm pointing out something that I believe you DID.
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                    • Posted by LetsShrug 4 years, 10 months ago
                      Well here's my stance. If I think something is funny I will laugh. If someone feels the need to categorize my reason for laughing and find a reason to be offended by it..so be it. I won't apologize for my sense of humor or worry about offending others in the process. In my view, getting offended is a waste of time. Taking into account everyone's 'feelings" is a colossal undertaking that I don't think a room full of adults should have to meander around... but that's just me. The REAL me.
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                      • Posted by WWJGD 4 years, 10 months ago
                        Okay! Then let's bring on the Retard jokes!

                        And a few N****r jokes while we're at it!
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                        • Posted by 4 years, 10 months ago
                          since those words have meanings removed form their original etymology, are you saying your one of those pc nuts?
                          My kids used to say, "oh, that's so gay, mom!" were they going out of their way to bash homosexuals? I do try to be sensitive if someone doesn't like to hear the F word, but sometimes it creeps out anyway. I kinda like the effect and drama of using it. seriously, be a good fart and understand neither of us were laughing at this story because the couple was in a same sex relationship.
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                    • Posted by LetsShrug 4 years, 10 months ago
                      ...and why would you feel the need to"point out something you believe I did?" You're not my Dad. And to add to my comment below.... I don't pussy foot around anyone and I don't want anyone pussy footing around me either. :) Can we just shake hands and make up and end this bullshit session already?
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        • Posted by LetsShrug 4 years, 10 months ago
          I just posted an article about two really stupid burglars in Australia...I tittered when I read it (What the hell is tittering anyway?...I fricken laughed, okay?)..they made bad choices and it got press...and there was no mention of them being gay..or bi. Just a couple of stupid straight guys. They threw spark plugs at a window to try and break it... c'mon, LAUGH! Okay..I'm done defending myself. I'll laugh (titter) at whatever I want. You are not the boss of me. THththththrppppppt!
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          • Posted by WWJGD 4 years, 10 months ago
            Yes, and I LOVE Stupid Burglar stories!

            Thank you for noticing that nothing was mentioned of the burglars' sex lives. That's the way it should be. It's funny because of what they DID, not because of what they ARE.
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            • Posted by LetsShrug 4 years, 10 months ago
              They're sex lives weren't relevant to the burglary.... not the same kind of "personal story". How could one tell their (the craigslist) story without their sexual orientation being apparent? It was PART of the story.
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