"Contemplation must be possible if man is to remain human.”

Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 10 months, 1 week ago to Ask the Gulch
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Contemplation is good for all but especially for the Conscious Human, it perhaps, connects us to existence itself. It seem likely that Quantum Physicist might prove this eventually but all we need to observe is the "Insights" we might come to, insights we have no knowable right to have. Many have had them, Tesla, comes to mind and perhaps Ayn Rand herself. All that these folks and many, many others created could not have come from the brain alone.

We here, seem to listen and read news articles a lot. Write a lot, but probably don't engage in Facebook or Twitter a lot. It doesn't take much to find time for contemplation, reflection or self introspection. Sometimes all it takes is a short "Walk about" or quite times while driving to and from work or performing your daily routine. That's the advantage of being Conscious and having a mind...you can contemplate while performing physical tasks at the same time, things the automatic brain is good at while whiling away in your mind.

Excerpts from the Article: Rest and Quiet Contemplation: We Need More.

"It’s very easy to be sucked into the world of the chattering class, to believe that you must always be engaged, reading, watching, commenting, tweeting, messaging, sharing pictures, and on and on and on. And if you’re not? Well, then you're uninformed and a disengaged citizen." "Then there is, of course, the sense that if we’re personally not sharing every thought or detail of our life and commenting on everyone else’s updates that we’re somehow not connected, don't have friends, or we’re missing out on opportunities." "But, again, what do we really gain by being plugged-in and oversharing other than elevated blood pressure and a bad case of paranoia, narcissism, or both?" "No, life is already far too busy with plenty of distractions and stresses. Perhaps we would do better to use our time to focus on those things we can impact personally. To do so, though, requires time for rest and quiet contemplation. In On Christian Contemplation, Thomas Merton argues, “… contemplation must be possible if man is to remain human.”"

What do you do to gain the time to contemplate..?
SOURCE URL: http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/rest-and-quiet-contemplation-we-need-more


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  • Posted by ewv 10 months ago
    What does it mean to say that "Contemplation is good for all but especially for the Conscious Human, it perhaps, connects us to existence itself"? What is a human who is not conscious? What does it mean to say that non-humans, which have no conceptual faculty, contemplate, which you claim is "good" for them? Contemplation is conceptual thinking based on prior perception of reality. What other "connection to existence" are you talking about? What does "Quantum Physicist proving" a "connection" have to do with it? "Prove" mysticism? If people did not already think then there would be no quantum physics, which is not required to prove that we think and does not prove mysticism. What is an "insight we have no knowable right to have"? You have a moral right to whatever thought you engage in. Where else do you think ideas come from other than the "brain alone", based on perception of reality? People either think and create, based on their conscious awareness of reality or they don't.

    You don't "gain the time to contemplate". You choose how to use the time available to you.
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    • Posted by  $  10 months ago
      A human, or a living entity that appears to be human, that is not conscious, (no mind, no introspection, no conscience)...is what I call: Humanoid...just a brain in a body like a robot.

      The idea of connecting to existence is perhaps our use of Quantum Entanglements. (the wave exchange between entangled particles is the exchange of information)
      It would seem at this point that the quantum laws, as we observe them, are perhaps what enables existence to exist...like the electrical and magnetic nature of positive electricity flowing to ground (-) and Norths attraction to south magnetics.
      I know it's a stretch for you to consider...but I still predict it will be proven one day. It's an insight that could not have come from the limited compartmentalized information stored in my head.
      I know you think that everything is in the head but that too, one day, will be proved wrong.

      Just remember my little phrase...It's Not Mystical...It's quantum physical.
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      • Posted by ewv 10 months ago
        No, it's not an "insight" and it's not quantum or any other kind of physics; it's unintelligible mysticism posturing as physics with metaphors from scientific concepts you do not understand.

        We perceive existence through our sense organs, regardless of more detailed explanations of how they work. Existence does not need any physical explanations to "enable it to exist". All science and all thought presuppose existence. I do not promote solipsism "thinking that everything is in the head" or even that the entire human nervous system is entirely "in the head". Please think and write with objectivity, especially on an Ayn Rand forum.
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        • Posted by  $  10 months ago
          So you say and that's the standard model of thought, archaic as it is, the open thinking world is coming to different conclusions but, like all things, it will take time to adapt.
          Rand was thought to be mystical to the mystics and they thought she was just cruel and making shit up...they were wrong now weren't they...her work goes a lot deeper than you may realize.

          As for the existence of existence...it could not exist without electromagnetism and that is a physical law. This too, will take time to sink in.
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          • Posted by ewv 10 months ago
            Your New Age double talk will not "sink in" at all. It simply sinks in a rational world that rejects it as non-cognitive. Science is organized knowledge about existence, formulated in 'laws'. No cognitive law makes existence as such possible. Existence is the starting point and can't be otherwise. The basic fact of existence requires no explanation nor is one possible under any rational meaning of the concept "explanation". Your dreamy, rambling "open thinking world" is rampant subjectivist fantasizing with meaningless double talk, not knowledge. It will not "adapt", whatever that is supposed to mean. Ayn Rand has absolutely nothing to do with this nonsense posing as "deep". Please refrain from claiming otherwise while pronouncing that I don't "realize" it.
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            • Posted by  $  10 months ago
              Not new age nor double talk...new agers get it wrong, easterners get it wrong and progressives get it really wrong.

              Unlike you, I do not take existence nor my own existence for granted nor lightly...it's not a given and I do wonder about the physical laws and processes that may have caused it to exist.

              A recent article, woefully short though to my dismay was a statement by Cern Scientist. They quite shockingly posit that "Existence shouldn't exist...they don't see an even balance between matter and so called, anti matter. In spite of the lack of balance....existence, the cosmos, the quantum field...still exists.

              That should, make one go, Hmmm. Perhaps the "standard models" are wrong...it's time to look elsewhere...for me, the quantum field is fascinating...that's where I am looking...it's the lowest common denominator we know of...and yes, I will continue my metaphoric prose...it pleases me and seems to awaken others to use their minds...full time.

              Rand thought deeply...from the cells of man's bodies to the values created from the insights from man's mind.
              She was certainly more than just a brain in a head.
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              • Posted by ewv 10 months ago
                There are no physical laws and processes outside of existence that caused it to exist. Nothing that exists is outside of existence. The CERN scientist made a humorous remark about not understanding an experiment, but did not say what you claim. Your posts are increasingly incoherent. Your fantasizing while posturing in the name of physics is run of the mill mysticism, not deep or profound. Your irrationalism is fundamentally incompatible with Ayn Rand's ideas and the purpose of this forum.
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                • Posted by  $  10 months ago
                  You need to get out of your head once in a while and into your mind, abandon that 13" radar screen for a bigger one.
                  Your structural views only serve to stagnate your thoughts. Really, you need to get out and smell the ether.
                  I know, you hate metaphoric language, neither did I at one time...but now, I get it.

                  Consciousness soars upon the wings of metaphors.
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                  • Posted by ewv 10 months ago
                    My thoughts are not "stagnant" and not "structural views", whatever that is supposed to mean beyond his intended obvious rejection of logic. Olduglycarl's post is a nonsensical personal attack floating on mysticism.

                    Blatant invocation of such mysticism and subjectivism along with nonsense like "you need to get out of your head once in a while and into your mind" and "abandon that 13" radar screen" make no sense beyond the effrontery of a demand to abandon reason as he does. They are an example of meaningless metaphors in a dreamy trance substituting for rational discussion while insisting that others suspend our minds and follow the schizophrenia. He sounds like he's in a drug induced stupor out of a Herman Hesse novel, not Atlas Shrugged. His repetitive, overt irrationalism is an affront to the values of Ayn Rand and the purpose of this forum. He is a mystic with nothing in common with Ayn Rand.

                    Human consciousness operates through reason in the form of concepts not the gibberish of "soaring upon the wings of metaphors". Without objectivity and rationality as a base, metaphors serve no useful purpose and convey nothing other than the detached state of mind of the speaker. That is why "muddy waters look deep" has a clear meaning applied to his "Quantum Physicist entanglements" trying to make "out of the brain insights" appear to be profound -- and his muddy metaphors do not.
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  • Posted by 1musictime 10 months ago
    A requirement is to be an am preceding, and a requirement, to think...It's above and identifies...It's a level above. It includes noting. One may ask if there are in-betweens? Various processes may imitate...
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  • Posted by 1musictime 10 months ago
    It's okay to be nonhuman since it includes superhuman, or above human, including the next person's belief of who and what is human.
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    • Posted by  $  10 months ago
      Ah, but most if not all, human looking, "nonhumans" on earth are just Humanoids, which is just an entity and not a "being"..."subhuman" would be a better description...as you already know, they mostly hang out in governments.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 10 months ago
    Carl, if you weren't a great contributor to this site, I'd call you a mystic.But I have learned to look beyond my first impression and look deeper. You are usually more profound than most. I realize that you have described what I do over at a friend's house, watching a football game. I've done so much contemplation that I should have been able to figure out how to overcome the speed of light by now. You are right contemplation goes deeper and further when done as an end in itself.
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    • Posted by  $  10 months ago
      Now that's interesting...Contemplation while watching foot ball...
      Whether you realize it or not, engaging the mind in contemplation often does...overcome the speed of light once you come to some insight, realization or an understanding of something you previously did not.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 10 months ago
        Hi, Carl: Do you remember an old radio show called Can You Top This? You keep topping my replies. I don't mind, though, always a learning experience.
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        • Posted by  $  10 months ago
          Hmm, just adding or completing with the intent to empower those I respond to with a bit of knowledge, sharing an insight, something I "See" that just might be likely or just sharing our mutuality, sometimes in a joking way that causes your Metaphor to live!

          Not trying to be top dog.

          I know, I just spend too much time in the ether.

          PS...never heard the radio show but I have heard about it.
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    • Posted by ewv 10 months ago
      No it isn't profound or deep. You got it right the first time. It's mysticism. "Muddy waters look deep".
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      • Posted by  $  10 months ago
        You are funny ewv...laughing, Muddy waters are usually shallow, and don't appear to be deep nor shallow.
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        • Posted by ewv 10 months ago
          "Muddy waters look deep" is a common, well known phrase. It means that obscure writing can give an illusion of intellectual depth despite it's shallowness. It comes from Nietzsche's "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep". Herb's initial impression of your post was correct. Non perceptual "connections" to reality "outside the brain alone" to explain "insights" we "have no knowable right to have" is mysticism, not profundity. Invoking misunderstood rhetoric of "Quantum Physicist" as "eventually proving" mystical speculation does not help. Contemplate objectivity.
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          • Posted by Herb7734 10 months ago
            If you have studied quantum physics and not found it to be mystical, you don't get it..Either mysticism is moving up to science, or science is degrading to mysticism..All this will be cleared up once a few questions are answered and cleared up about the nature of the universe.
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            • Posted by ewv 10 months ago
              I have "studied" quantum physics at the graduate level and continue to learn more. I do not find it to be "mystical". It deals with submicroscopic phenomena that are not like what we observe at the macroscopic level. There is no reason to expect them to be the same. As in the development of any science there is much more to try to understand. That does not make it "mystical". Mysticism is not "moving up to science", they are opposites; and legitimate science is not "degrading to mysticism, only those with a penchant for the bizarre and mysterious who dabble but do not understand as they invoke degraded philosophical interpretation.

              Those who want to understand learn the facts of the experiments and the mathematical formulations of the theory. We get our enjoyment of that in the marvelous discoveries that have been made together what rational understanding is possible as human knowledge continues to progress, not nihilistic wallowing in a mystical abyss.

              Some of the worst are ex-theoretical physicists who understand nothing of rational epistemology and who went off the deep end embracing Eastern mysticism, as in the "Tao of Physics". Rational people do not follow them.
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          • Posted by  $  10 months ago
            Nietzsche was missing the point, but we had not yet explored the possibilities of a "Mind" quantum field connection.
            Having no "Knowable right" means, one has not the compartmentalized information to make a leap of thought on a particular subject matter which infers that the thought was an integrated insight; integrated in the sense of a Brain/Mind cooperation...but then again, one must have that connection in the first place in order to gain insights, (Still, today, even after 3000 years, many do not)...we call them these days: quantum leaps and there is nothing "Mystical" about it.

            Do you think for one moment that say, Tesla didn't experience those "quantum leaps" in thought? There was no such information at the time that one might come up with the things he did.
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            • Posted by ewv 10 months ago
              "Muddy waters look deep" does not "miss the point". Clear thinkers know exactly what it refers to. You are not profound or deep.

              Nietzsche not exploring a fantasy about "mind quantum field connection" and "quantum leaps" is irrelevant; no one else has either: There is no such thing: it is meaningless mystical gibberish that has nothing to do with explaining creative conceptual thought. The "no knowable right" rhetoric is meaningless double talk. The incoherence is worse than floating abstractions.

              That someone does not understand how productive, creative thinkers like Ayn Rand, scientists, and engineers are able to produce new ideas through years of effort building up a base of knowledge on which to build does not excuse the substitute of 'quantum entanglement leap no knowable right' nonsense asserting mystical connections for "insights", refusing to acknowledge it as mysticism by arbitrarily invoking "Quantum Physicist" as if that makes it science.

              Those who are serious about the subject of the fact of creativity and use of subconscious processes by rational thinkers can read such classics as Ayn Rand's The Art of Nonfiction and the The Art of Fiction, some observations in Koestler's The Act of Creation, and Hadamard's The Psychology of Invention in the Mathematical Field.
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