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Suspect Waves a Gun at Customers in Dollar General; Two Seconds Later He’s Dead

Posted by IndianaGary 6 years, 8 months ago to News
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In an Orrville, Alabama Dollar General Thursday, a suspect burst in waving a gun. He threatened to kill everyone in the store. Luckily, he did not get that chance. A customer pulled out their concealed firearm and shot the suspect in the chest. He died instantly.

This is how predators should be handled!
SOURCE URL: http://downtrend.com/emilyh/suspect-waves-a-gun-at-customers-in-dollar-general-two-seconds-later-hes-dead/


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  • Posted by edweaver 6 years, 8 months ago
    I still don't understand needing a permit. Criminals will never ask permission to carry and kill. We should never ever need permission from anyone, especially the government, to be in a position to defend ourselves, our family or anyone else that is threatened by a criminal. The permit is simply all about politics. Gives politicians another reason to feel they have power over people because they grant us permission to carry.
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    • Posted by wiggys 6 years, 8 months ago
      I believe every person issued a carry permit has to take a gun safety course even ex-military. in that manner the police department in the area you live knows that you have been properly trained in gun safety and use. I believe this is standard all over the country even in texas and Alaska.
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      • Posted by xthinker88 6 years, 8 months ago
        Not true in PA. I just got mine last week. The "recommend" a course but PA is a "shall issue" state so unless you are a felon or some other obvious disqualifier - they issue you a permit. Training course or not.
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        • Posted by XenokRoy 6 years, 8 months ago
          Better, but still why a permit at all?
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          • Posted by Robbie53024 6 years, 8 months ago
            Constitutional carry is the only constitutionally valid situation.
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            • Posted by xthinker88 6 years, 8 months ago
              That's not really true. There is nothing in the Constitution that stipulates how States can regulate the carrying of firearms in their state.

              Ironically, the PA constitution is even less ambiguous than the US constitution. It states that the right of a citizen to keep and bear arms, for their own defense or that of the Commonwealth, shall not be questioned. So one could argue that requiring a citizen to have a permit in PA is actually unconstitutional from a state perspective.
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              • Posted by Robbie53024 6 years, 8 months ago
                Seems pretty straightforward to me - "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Requiring a license, even one that cannot be denied, is an infringement. You are permitted, by the constitution, to "bear arms." Thus, you are allowed to carry. Constitutional carry is merely a positive enunciation of what already is a protected right.
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                • Posted by xthinker88 6 years, 8 months ago
                  So a convicted bank robber on parole should be allowed to carry? Or is that an infringement? By your absolute definition it's an infringement.
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                  • Posted by Robbie53024 6 years, 8 months ago
                    Depends on how faithful you want to be to the Constitution. The SCOTUS has said that some rights can be relinquished by various individuals - convicted felons and the insane are two. I'm not an absolutist, but lean towards allowing rather than prohibiting. A convicted felon of a crime not involving deadly force, in my opinion, would not qualify for prohibition (so your bank robber might or might not be acceptable, depending on how they made the robbery).

                    That said, a blanket requirement for a license, clearly is an unconstitutional infringement.
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                    • Posted by xthinker88 6 years, 8 months ago
                      I generally do not disagree with you. I guess I don't disagree with the requirement enough to not follow it though. Especially in a shall issue state.

                      I'm still thinking that it was not originally intended to limit the ability of States to have some oversight in this area. Although, unlike the first, it does not start with "Congress...". And the 14th amendment would render that argument null and void anyway.

                      Plus, as I mentioned, the "shall not be questioned" in the PA constitution is actually stronger language than the US constitution. If you cannot even question my right to keep and bear arms for my own defense or the defense of the Commonwealth. I believe that that clause pre-dates the US constitution as well but I'm not sure.

                      However, the PA LTCF clearly "questions" the rights of citizens and the Philadelphia police often harass citizens even if they have the license.
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                  • Posted by Hiraghm 6 years, 8 months ago
                    check your premise.

                    The key words, "on parole". A prisoner on parole is not a free man.

                    A convicted murderer (citizen), who's served his sentence or been granted a pardon, has every bit as much right to carry a weapon as does a citizen who's committed no crime.
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                    • Posted by Robbie53024 6 years, 8 months ago
                      I think that he intentionally included the "on parole" as a qualifier looking to my absolutist terminology. I've since qualified that original post.

                      To my understanding, a convicted felon has forfeited their right to posses a fire arm. However, a pardoned person, even a mass murderer that used guns to commit the crime, can posses, as that crime was expunged.
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      • Posted by Robbie53024 6 years, 8 months ago
        Not correct. In Wisconsin, former military and police have no requirement to attend training (although I did, just to know what the legal issues are with self-defense). I also did not register for the class nor have applied for a concealed carry permit - open carry is permitted in Wisconsin.
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      • Posted by $ blarman 6 years, 8 months ago
        The laws for concealed carry vary widely from state to state. Some states are "shall issue", meaning that the government has to issue you a permit unless they can prove you are a threat (burden of proof on State). Some states don't require any kind of permit (like Vermont). Some states are "may issue" where law enforcement has the right to refuse a license if they deem you to be a hazard (burden of proof on Citizen).

        Also, many states have reciprocal agreements with other states, which is why CC permits from Florida and Utah are in such high demand. Wisconsin is one of the states with no reciprocity agreements. Illinois was just recently forced to rewrite their CC laws, and DC just had theirs struck down so that anyone with a CC permit is now legal in DC!
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        • Posted by xthinker88 6 years, 8 months ago
          PA supposedly has formal reciprocity with 20 states. In addition, 9 states have informal statutory reciprocity. And 2 states don't require permits. So my PA LTCF allows me to carry in 31 states. I can drive from Philly to Phoenix packing all the way. So long as I cut down through WV and don't go into Ohio or MD.
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      • Posted by edweaver 6 years, 8 months ago
        This is not true nor should it be. A person should take responsibility to know their weapon & how to use it. This increases their chances of survival and decreases their chances of injuring bystanders. One does not need to be trained as a boxer to defend themselves with their fists. We holds true for any other weapon. :)
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        • Posted by wiggys 6 years, 8 months ago
          if you do not train then you do not know to do to counter the opposition. that is why boxers train and the same hold true for those who study the marshal arts. having an idea of what may come at you and knowing what it feels like are a must. gun safety is just that if you do not train with a fire arm you will more than likely freeze up. rethink your comment and apply it to yourself. would you like to be in combat with someone that was not trained?
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          • Posted by XenokRoy 6 years, 8 months ago
            Training, while I do not think it should be required, should be suggested. I have taken several courses with firearms.

            I still do not feel confident with my accuracy with a handgun. Give me a rifle and I can hit a 2 inch circle at 300 meters with 9 out of 10 rounds or 10 out of 10 rounds every time. A handgun at 20 feet I can hit that same circle about 5 out of 10 times.

            Te me a hand gun is for target shooting, or to help me get to a rifle, nothing more. I do not pack one as I would rather have a knife at 20 feet and beyond that I would not shoot if anyone else was around the target. My accuracy is not there.

            Without training I would not know this fact about myself. I suck with handguns, close quarters I will take a knife or my Bushmaster AR15 M4 over a handgun as I can use them both better.

            People that pack a weapon should know there limitations with that weapon; perhaps more important, the capabilities with the weapon. Then they can operate with some intelligence and reason rather than guesswork and conjecture.

            Even saying that, it should not be required and neither should a permit.
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          • Posted by edweaver 6 years, 8 months ago
            Maybe I was not clear. I did not say one should not train. I was saying it should not be a requirement to defend yourself or someone else if needed. If you re-read my comment with my example of defending with fists. If someone attacked me, I can choose to stand there and take it or fight back, trained or not. Same applies to a gun or any other weapon. I agreed that training is important because it increases the chances of a successful outcome but I would rather be in a group of untrained people, all armed than to be in any group unarmed.
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            • Posted by wiggys 6 years, 8 months ago
              okay. however, I have to believe if you are in a group of armed people probably all will have prior knowledge of the use of arms. not necessarily swat trained but knowledgeable. as fir fist fighting, from personal experience it is nice to know what it is like to be hit, makes you want not to be hit. in conclusion I believe we are on the same page.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 6 years, 8 months ago
    But Oh My, if he didn't have the proper permit:

    "I applaud this Good Samaritan for stepping up and protecting everyone else in the store, including themselves. If they hadn’t been there, this situation could have turned out a whole lot different. There may have been fatalities and there may have also been hostages. The gunman waved the gun at two cashiers, and was about to order them into a break room. What happened next would have been terrifying. After someone called in police and SWAT teams, there would have been a rain of lead that could have been deadly. Not only would they shoot the gunman, but the gunman may have taken lives out with him. Or he could have shot several people before turning the gun on himself."
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      Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 6 years, 8 months ago
      Permit be &*(&^^*. When I first went into law enforcement and old boyfriend said: "Never forget it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

      If a bad guy uses and gun and gets killed, well, that's the cost of doing business for him.
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      • Posted by Zenphamy 6 years, 8 months ago
        Yes, but if you notice in the article, that's what the police are doing, investigating to make sure he had a proper permit to be carrying. Can't let those bad un-permitted people save anybody, don't you know.
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        • Posted by livefree-NH 6 years, 8 months ago
          I wonder if the bad guy bought more than one gun a month. I wonder if the bad guy had a magazine that held more than 10 rounds. I wonder if the bad guy had a permit to carry the gun. I wonder if the bad guy followed any of the laws that politicians promise us are going to make us safe.
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        • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 6 years, 8 months ago
          Truth.
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          • Posted by Robbie53024 6 years, 8 months ago
            In Milwaukee, a similar incident - janitor in a stairwell was accosted by 3 thugs with a baseball bat - having had problems in the past, the janitor had a CCP and carried for personal protection. He killed 2 of the thugs. The police confiscated his weapon and now 6 months later it has not been returned. The city attorney spent 3 weeks investigating the janitor for hate crimes (he's white, thugs black), and for weapons violations. Finally could find nothing and didn't charge, but the janitor spent a day and a half in jail right after the incident.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 8 months ago
        "If a bad guy uses and gun and gets killed, well, that's the cost of doing business for him."

        Shooting him is to protect innocent people, nothing to do with justice. Justice is for the courts to decide later and for random chance (God, if you believe in that sort of thing) to decide whether he dies. As you say, if he dies, that's the unfortunate cost of his choices or mental illness. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
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        • Posted by $ Technocracy 6 years, 8 months ago
          The courts walked away on justice a long time ago.

          We have a legal system, and any justice it actually produces is in spite of the system.
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          • Posted by mccannon01 6 years, 8 months ago
            You have a point here, Technocracy. I like to say the nation's Founding Fathers laid the corner stone of a justice system for the future country, but what we have today is a legal system. The two are not necessarily the same.

            For example, if the country's legal system wasn't draining so much wealth out of the country's health care system, maybe truly affordable health care would be a reality.

            So what happened to the justice system? One hypothetical clue: Two bills come before a legislative body that address the same issue. Which one passes? Answer: The one that generates the most revenue for the legal system. Since most legislative bodies are comprised of lawyers, this is only natural and adheres to the law of bureaucracy. That is, eventually the main function of any bureaucracy is the care, feeding, and expansion of the bureaucracy (see any government bureaucracy for illustration of this principle - actually, the same is true inside the corporate world and will collapse a company if not corrected or kept under control).

            The current system metes out justice from time to time, but that's just the required veneer for a legal system.
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    • Posted by 6 years, 8 months ago
      This is key: instead of the high likelihood of multiple fatalities and utter chaos, all but one fatality a victim; we have the purveyor of force receiving the justice he so richly deserved at the hands of one of his potential victims.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 6 years, 8 months ago
    A couple of months ago I saw a mother with two little children. She wore a holstered sidearm on her hip at a Hueytown, Alabama, Walmart. Warmed my old dino heart. No one would want to mess with her and her kids. Yeehaw!
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    • Posted by livefree-NH 6 years, 8 months ago
      I was at work, taking a walk at lunch and walked past a woman fishing at the pond nearby, with the tacklebox on the ground and a .45 on her hip. I don't know what she was using for bait, but her shark repellent seemed to be working just fine. Come to think of it, I don't recall any violent crimes being done in that area. I wonder if the bad actors get the message pretty quickly, and look for low-hanging fruit somewhere else? (This was near ASU/PHX where lots of people walk around with guns. But how could "more guns" equate to "less crime"????)
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  • Posted by Herb7734 6 years, 8 months ago
    Most importantly, saved lives. This is a story that must be told over and over until the anti-gun people understand that firearms in the hands of citizens will save more lives than take more lives. However, I suspect that the real issue behind gun control is actually people control by the government. So, no rational examples will make any difference.
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  • Posted by Munn1414 6 years, 8 months ago
    DRT!
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    • Posted by Maritimus 6 years, 8 months ago
      May I ask why can't you speak English here. I do not know Tweetish or Facebookish. I though that the language we use in this country is English. Isn't it?
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      • Posted by johnpe1 6 years, 8 months ago
        from: http://www.internetslang.us/acronyms/sta...

        "DRT Means Dead Right There"

        -- j

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        • Posted by Maritimus 6 years, 8 months ago
          Thank you, j!
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          • Posted by eddieh 6 years, 8 months ago
            Maybe we can get subtitles
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            • Posted by Maritimus 6 years, 8 months ago
              Subtitles work for me.
              I thought that we here were interested in communicating among ourselves about objectivist view on many subjects and aspects of life. Using some kind of slang can be a lot of fun, for sure. But the established formal language is much more accurate, precise, powerful and universal. To me, excellent communication between and among human minds is one of the most beautiful things in life.
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              • Posted by $ stargeezer 6 years, 8 months ago
                I agree. The language of our country is vitally important since it determines what in our society has value and what is cheapened to worthlessness. I am one of the poor folks who have great problems with spelling and being the product of public education, not much effort was expended to correct it until it was far to late. As such, I make every effort to insure my posts are concise as possible and contain as few spelling/grammar/structural errors as I can manage.

                Also since I'm of an age that explored another communication "phase" called ham radio and as a licensed Amateur Radio Operator for 48 years I'm familiar with Morse code, Q signals and several other less known abbreviations. With my years of military service I had to learn a constant diet of acronyms and specialized abbreviations. All in all, I'm certain that the total I've amassed could fill a dictionary with ease.

                Through it all there has been ONE lesson I've learned that has gained many followers in the various classes I've taught over the years and I'd like to share it with anybody who will listen on this subject. The use of alphabet soup letters in a conversation that spans generations, educational backgrounds, employment histories and varied special interests does not aid in communication. It ONLY aids in confusion.

                So, in short, subtitles work for me too. QSL?
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                • Posted by Maritimus 6 years, 8 months ago
                  Thank you Stargeezer!
                  I do not think I have ever written a comment in Galt's Gulch without at least one spelling error. I lived for my first 27 years in Yugoslavia. 30 characters in the alphabet, covering every sound in the language. If you hear it, you know how to spell it. Than I lived and worked in Italy for four years. With just a few simple rules, you know how to spell and can pronounce correctly what you read. At age 31 I immigrated (legally!!) and even though I started learning English when I was 13, never quite got used to the fact the "enough" sounds "inaf" and an infinite supply of such puzzles.
                  I learned long time ago, from some very good people, the I am responsible for the message received, not just for the message sent. I think that it is a great advice. If you want to hide what you are saying, use encryption. Thanks, again.
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                  • Posted by $ stargeezer 6 years, 8 months ago
                    Maritimus - Thank you and welcome to your/our home. I lived in West Germany and had the opportunity to visit Yugoslavia while I was there. We share a common ancestry too since my great, grandfather immigrated in 1892 from a small farming community in what is now Yugoslavia. The name of that town has been lost in the family history, but I enjoyed my short visit and drew a bit closer to my ancestor.

                    Welcome to the gulch too.
                    Larry
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                    • Posted by Maritimus 6 years, 8 months ago
                      Thank you, Larry!
                      I do feel welcome in both. My, then new, bride and I arrived in New York harbor in January 1967. So, I can proudly say that I have been an American citizen, by now, for more then half of my life. Even though that is only more than 50% of time, I feel 100% American. And, if I am lucky enough and live another two years, we will celebrate our 50th anniversary. Half a century! Who would have guessed?
                      Thank you, again.
                      Niko
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                  • Posted by Robbie53024 6 years, 8 months ago
                    The problem with Italian is it is an auditory and visual language. Common joke (for those who can't take a culturally based joke, stop reading now):

                    How do you gag an Italian?

                    Tie his hands behind his back.
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                    • Posted by Maritimus 6 years, 8 months ago
                      Hi, Robbie,
                      No need to worry! I lost those habits long time ago. Besides, I could never match the real masters of the art.
                      I think that I noticed, over the decades since I came, that Americans are gradually using more and more their hands in "speaking". Do you notice that?
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                • Posted by livefree-NH 6 years, 8 months ago
                  So instead of DRT he could have said he was a silent key.

                  Just like using the term "Galt's Gulch", and many people have no idea what that means, we have our terms to self-identify. Your eloquence just above tells me that you are interested in communicating with like-minded people, and I would probably enjoy having you as a friend, even a neighbor. Being a ham myself for over 40 years, I learned before knowing it that looks don't matter much, even skin color, since you don't ever see most of the people you meet on the air.

                  But I think that slackers and underachievers are under-represented in the ham bands, if only because the "looters" always want someone else to do the work for them. Most hams are happy to fire up the soldering iron, hook up the wires themselves and string the antenna.

                  I'm afraid that I have already taken this thread way off track, and I apologize for that.

                  I guess I'm just saying I agree, and nice QSO, 73.
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                  • Posted by $ stargeezer 6 years, 8 months ago
                    It seems our old hobby is well represented here in the gulch. I can't say I'm surprised since most hams I've known over the years share a somewhat common view about the Republic, our culture and a "hands on" view of disaster management. Also most hams seem to share a interest in "gadgets", like guns. :)

                    And as I was one who proclaimed a view of the language that calls for plain speech, I'll say thanks for the conversation. Wishing you and yours a good evening.
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  • Posted by ksaldutti 6 years, 8 months ago
    And the liberal little sheep where saved while the Bloomberg's and Winestines would rather you call 911 while the rediculas police once they get there can make reports while stepping around the corpses.
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  • Posted by Solver 6 years, 8 months ago
    Imagine the Hero thinking, “What the... wait, I've got a gun! I can stop this, dead. But, did I renew my permit? If I did, would this be considered self-defense, these days. I never did read all those words on that thing. A lot of cross references to a bunch of other laws which will have more words I don't understand. What if...”

    Eight seconds later, the manic that was waving the gun, starts shooting...
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  • Posted by Notperfect 6 years, 8 months ago
    One bullet, one shot, one solution. Tell that to those idiots in D.C. No they say we have to form a committee to study the effects on a rat compared to the human brain to make sure that those who were committing this alleged crime were maybe just getting the feel of their weapon they had just purchased (stole) from someone who was not looking at the time. More red tape. But IG this is exactly the solution.
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  • Posted by RobMorse 6 years, 8 months ago
    I thought I recognized that event. It happened back in January. I report on defensive gun use twice a week, and DGUs like this are not unusual at all.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 8 months ago
    I'm not happy he's dead, but i completely agree with the policy: a law-abiding citizen should shoot for the center of the body mass (b/c shooting the hand with the gun has a much greater chance of missing), disarm the perpetrator, and call for ambulance/police.

    Maybe this prep turns out to be mentally ill. Maybe he's a cold-blooded killer. Maybe the shot kills him or by luck causes relatively minor injuries. Hopefully he doesn't die b/c most law-abiding citizens would rather not kill another human. That's not for us to decide. All we can/should do is act decisively to prevent the person with the gun from hurting any innocent people.
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    • Posted by 6 years, 8 months ago
      As far as I'm concerned, he's mentally ill by definition: he attempted to initiate force on others and no sane person does that.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 8 months ago
        "As far as I'm concerned, he's mentally ill by definition: he attempted to initiate force on others and no sane person does that."
        The legal definition is the insane person doesn't even know he's doing it. He may not run from the police or leave evidence without worrying about it. If he runs from the police or in some way plans to get away with the crime, he's not insane by the legal definition. Whether he's insane (which I probably wouldn't know in this situation) would not affect my decision to shoot him to save lives.
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 6 years, 8 months ago
        the Soviets implemented your definition of insanity. People who disagreed with them and there agenda had to be crazy, because they were so right.

        People who don't agree that the initiation of force is the absolute sine qua non of evil are not insane. To suggest so is to suggest that the vast, vast, vast majority of mankind was insane for all of human history and prehistory.

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    • Posted by edweaver 6 years, 8 months ago
      I have no desire to kill anyone, ever but I am not unhappy he is dead. From my perspective, everyone of those people is someone's family. If a person came and threatened my family or friends with death, there would be no hesitation on my part. Shoot to kill and don't look back. While I would remember it for the rest of my life, I would also remember that my family or friend was still alive because I acted without hesitation. If you hesitate, you may not get a second chance. To me, anyone that chooses to threaten someone with a weapon is I'll.
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 6 years, 8 months ago
        "To me, anyone that chooses to threaten someone with a weapon is I'll. "

        To me, anyone not me is ill.

        As Ann Coulter once said, "I'm a moderate; the rest of y'all are crazy".
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