Americans Are Receiving Unordered Parcels From Chinese E-Criminals - And Can't Do Anything To Stop Them

Posted by $ nickursis 6 years, 5 months ago to Economics
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Well, this is an interesting adaptation to the term "junk mail" my guess is you turn around and sell them in bulk to anyone who wants them through EBay or something, and flood the market. All the ranking in the world won't help if there are no customers. Maybe that is just too much effort....
SOURCE URL: https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2017/11/27/americans-are-receiving-unordered-parcels-from-chinese-e-criminals-and-cant-do-anything-about-it/#79d2fa2473da


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  • Posted by $ jlc 6 years, 4 months ago
    Here is a non-Forbes non-adblock adverse article on the same topic: https://kopitiambot.com/2017/11/29/am...

    Technical magazines have been doing this for as long as I have been receiving them. Their ad value is in proportion to their subscription rates, so it is difficult to un-subscribe from them. They will ask you to pay expensive subscription prices, but if you do not, then they will ask you to pay discount subscription deals, but if you do not they will ask you to officially subscribe for free, but if you do not they will send you their trade journals anyway. If you directly contact them, and ask that you be removed, they will eventually remove you...but it is more important for you to count for ad value than for you to pay for the magazine.

    Jan
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    • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 6 years, 4 months ago
      Again, the actual method of the "audited subscriptions" that set advertising rates may not be your choice of algorithms, but no one's rights are being violated. The complaint in the original post here is groundless.
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      • Posted by ewv 6 years, 4 months ago
        The violation of rights, as described in the article, is the fraudulent claim of large customer orders for a phony credibility. That is why the claims are false advertising.

        It's also a nuisance to those receiving the mysterious packages trying to figure out what it means. It's creepy and a waste of time, and may be frightening. The disposal of an accumulation of unsolicited trash also costs money.
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        • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 6 years, 4 months ago
          False advertising is not a violation of your rights until and unless you act on it. Anyone can claim anything. What you do about it is another matter, entirely.
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          • Posted by ewv 6 years, 4 months ago
            False advertising providing explicit, deliberate false information to those who give you money, like these bogus claims, is fraud. They aren't just engaging in ambiguous imagery.
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  • Posted by rbroberg 6 years, 4 months ago
    I stopped paying attention to Yelp rating, Facebook ads, and other forms of advertisement when I realized its exactly the same as any other junk mail.

    I have a story to share about this... and it is an extreme example. I did an experiment to see what would happen if I gave Donald Trump, the Libertarian Party, Hillary Clinton, and Bernie Sanders an undisclosed and small sum of money for their respective campaigns. The results were: two pictures of Donald Trump (megalomaniac or Nietzschean egoist response), a Libertarian Party pin and an occasional newsletter from the same (self-promotional form of social activism), possibly one hundred calls from the DNC asking for more (begging), and emails about grassroots liberal campaigns in my area (uniting looters). The truth is, Facebook now has no idea how to classify my politics and its exceptional. Minus the DNC calls. I regret that one, for sure.
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  • Posted by Storo 6 years, 4 months ago
    Seems that just having a good product - or a better product - at a more competitive price is no longer enough. A related problem is that large eSales firms like Amazon rely almost exclusively on buyer reviews for products they sell. And since most things sold on these sites are made in China.........
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    • Posted by $ 6 years, 4 months ago
      I gave up on Amazon reviews, because a large amount of them are bogus, and you can easily see that from the description or comment. There was a lot of talk over the last couple years of people paid to comment, or even getting the thing free for a review, some actually say they do, but a lot do not. I end up having to do the "trust but verify" Reagan mode.I got a Rexing Car cam that is actually very good, after getting a bogus cam that was rated very high, but was garbage. I had to go digging through YouTube vids to finally find one that seemed to work the way I wanted it to.
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  • Posted by dansail 6 years, 4 months ago
    It seems this article traces back some of the hassle to when the woman/customer ordered through AliBaba (?) and thus her name was on a database. I've continued the practice of only buying products through eBay and strictly from merchants/sellers within the borders of the United States. Perhaps this would prevent the unwanted inflow?
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    • Posted by $ 6 years, 4 months ago
      I do that too, I do not use out of country sellers, I made that mistake once. Will not repeat, although I did buy a Kudrone mini drone off Indigogo from a company that was in China, who actually worked really hard to provide a quality product. The funny part is the translation wordings suck, but they really were funny saying "calling us "shit head" is going to not make better product you get"..... The thing is nice, I still have to learn to fly it, it is a bit different from the normal drone.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 6 years, 4 months ago
    "An inextricable part of even a casual glance at stamps is the awareness of what a magnificent achievement they represent: for a few pennies, you can send a letter to any place on earth, to the farthest, most desolate corner where human beings might live ... to Greenland or to the Cocos (Keeling) Islands (population 1000). Those bright little pieces of paper will carry your words across oceans, over mountains, over deserts, and still more difficult: over savage frontiers (the most savage of which are not on the underdeveloped continents). Stamps as a postal institution are only 130 years old. Think of the human ingenuity, the technological development, the large-scale synchronization of effort that were required to create a worldwide postal system. (You may curse the inefficiency of your local post offices ... and the ones abroad may be worse ... but look at the total picture of what they are accomplishing.)

    "While the world politicians are doing their best to split the globe apart by means of iron curtains and brute force, the world postal services are demonstrating ... in their quiet, unobtrusive way ... what is required to bring mankind closer together: a specific purpose cooperatively carried out, serving individual goals and needs. It is the voices of individual men that stamps carry around the globe; it is individual men that need a postal service; kings, dictators and other rulers do not work by mail. In this sense, stamps are the world's ambassadors of good will." -- Ayn Rand, "Why I Like Stamp Collecting" (Minkus Stamp Journal, Vol. VI, No. 2 - 1971.)
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 6 years, 4 months ago
    I fail to see the crime. I understand from the article that the practice is proscribed in China, but I do not find any loss of rights.
    The topic post itself may be an example of the same sort of thing: a great new problem you have to deal with ... but it is not a problem at all... just unsolicited mail.
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    • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 4 months ago
      The loss of rights is embedded in the subsidy that Chinese merchants receive from the U.S. Postal Service. Read this whole article, it's an eye-opener: https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshep...

      A good reason to withdraw from international postal agreements, and to either privatize or wind down the U.S. Postal Service.
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      • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 6 years, 4 months ago
        The USPS pays its own way. It does not depend on tax subsidies. It does have a monopoly on first class mail within the USA. But, like any other business, if they want to offer a discount to one customer, it does not violate the rights of other customers.
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        • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 4 months ago
          The USPS does not pay its own way. "American taxpayers give an $18 billion gift to the post office every year" http://fortune.com/2015/03/27/us-post...

          The USPS has been losing more than $5 billion per year since 2010. Guess who will be the bailer out of last resort. "Postal Service calls for pricing hike as losses mount" https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...

          And according to the article I linked to: "The reason why it (the subsidy) exists isn’t because the USPS wants to give a helping hand to the hardworking merchants of China, but due to what the Washington Post dubbed a 'quirk in an international treaty.' International postage rates for incoming packages are set by a U.N. agency called the United Postal Union (UPU). . . Essentially, countries that it deems to be poorer or less developed pay less for shipping to countries that are categorized as being richer. So someone shipping from, say, China, will pay significantly less to ship to a country like the U.S. than an American shipper will pay to send that same package to China."

          So I reiterate: the existence of this subsidy is a good reason (among many others) to withdraw from international postal agreements, and to either fully privatize or wind down the U.S. Postal Service.
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          • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 6 years, 4 months ago
            Read the article you cited. That "$18 billion gift" is ephemeral. I am just as much in favor of privatizing the post office as the next libertarian. However, as a matter of political analysis, it is just as true that even if there were a completely free market in first class mail, the government could still operate its own postal system for its own purposes. (See "Unlimited Constitutional Government" here http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/20...
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            • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 4 months ago
              What do you mean, the "$18 billion gift" is ephemeral? Is a nearly two-century monopoly on mail delivery "ephemeral"? Is exemption from real estate taxes "ephemeral"? Is borrowing at heavily subsidized interest rates "ephemeral"? Are bloated labor costs passed on to its customers "ephemeral"? The dictionary definition of ephemeral is "short-lived". The Postal Service's monopoly power and government subsidies are anything but.
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              • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 6 years, 4 months ago
                Federal property is above local taxation. If the principle was not clear, McColloch v. Maryland spelled it out.

                I misused the word "ephemeral." I was thinking of "airy" as in "insubstantial." It is like claiming that the government subsities of Kennedy Space Center prevent private enterprise in space launches. They are a factor in that market, but if you are mad about the US Government launching Chinese satellites, attacking the market value of untaxesd KSC property misses the point. I grant that the government has no business in space launches or the delivery of first class mail. I just see a wider context for the problem.

                And I do not see the crime of Chinese merchants boosting their own ratings. We have many examples of the same thing in the free market.
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                • Posted by $ 6 years, 4 months ago
                  There is no crime in boosting their own ratings, as long as it is not with someone elses name or information. That is the problem, they send unsolicited junk, then keep doing it, so they then file "feedback" in different guises. None of which the person ever said or submitted. Do you think it would be legal to see your name on a review for the food blender you have never seen, had , or purchased, yet someone filed a review under your name?
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                • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 4 months ago
                  Okay, let’s go with your new word. Is a nearly two-century monopoly on mail delivery "insubstantial"? Is exemption from real estate taxes "insubstantial"? Is borrowing at heavily subsidized interest rates "insubstantial"? Are bloated labor costs passed on to its customers "insubstantial"? Ask the Postal Service’s real and would-be competitors how much they would be willing to pay for such “insubstantial” advantages. A “substantial” amount, no doubt.
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          • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 6 years, 4 months ago
            Withdrawing from international postal agreements would be self-defeating. It is an expression of the bunker mentality that come from misunderstanding an isolated literary device from Atlas Shrugged. You do not understand the true motivation of the IPU. There is no single way to justly provide for international postage - except to lower the cost to that which the poorest person can afford - and cell phones may be close that now. So, if I want to send a reimbursement for return postage, I pay American first class rates for coupons which are spent at the other side for their first class rates. It is not equal, but it is fair.

            See below: https://www.galtsgulchonline.com/post...
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            • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 4 months ago
              Re: “There is no single way to justly provide for international postage - except to lower the cost to that which the poorest person can afford . . . “ This sounds more like an argument for the collectivist values of the “social justice” warriors than an argument for individual liberty. Substitute “food” or “shelter” or “health care” for “international postage” and you’ll see what I mean. I do not have a “bunker mentality” and advocating a free market in the transport of goods and services does not require one. And I neither know nor care about the “true motivation” of the IPU or any other department of the UN. What I do care about are the results – government-imposed discounts that give Chinese merchants a huge advantage in shipping costs over their hapless American competitors. This is a clear rights violation if I ever saw one. How you can call such an arrangement “fair” is beyond me.
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              • Posted by $ 6 years, 4 months ago
                I am not seeing how that is free market either, it is apparently an attempt by government to be "fair" in the liberal sense: Take from one to give to another. Hose the American postal customer to pay for the Foreign one. The problem is also that the Post Office has been heavily unionized, bought favors and deals from congressional patrons, and went from a Federal position to a "private" one without really being "private" because it was also considered "too big to fail". AMTRACK never got as good a deal.
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              • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 6 years, 4 months ago
                Youi need to understand the Universal Postal Union. It antedates the United Nations by 70 years.

                "The 1874 Treaty of Bern succeeded in unifying a confusing international maze of postal services and regulations into a single postal territory for the reciprocal exchange of letters. The barriers and frontiers that had impeded the free flow and growth of international mail had finally been pulled down."

                http://www.upu.int/en/the-upu/history...

                What makes it different than food or shelter is that UPU is an agreement for reciprocal service. There is probably no way to make this "fair" in the market sense of each person paying only for themselves and yet have reciprocity. One thing that the UPU established was that I can buy "return postage" for you to send to me, but I do that at my rates, not yours. I pay for the first class coupons at my post office. I enclose them in my letter to you. You use them at your post office to buy the return carriage. For me, the rate in US dollars would be prohibitively expensive for you. That was true in 1874 when you could live cheaper in Switzerland on francs than you could in the USA on the same number of dollars.

                International postage is about the transmission of ideas across borders. That some Chinese merchants make egregious use of the system does not invalidate it.
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                • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 4 months ago
                  There is a world of difference between transmission of information (such as letters) and transportation/delivery of marketable goods. Thanks to the Internet and email, the transmission of information for most of the world is already free or nearly so, and countries that heavily regulate or forbid access to the Internet also heavily regulate or forbid the delivery of international mailed letters.

                  So if the original purpose of the Universal Postal Union was to facilitate the free flow of information between private citizens in different countries, that purpose has already been fulfilled (to the extent possible) during the last few decades, and the UPU should therefore now disband. Instead it has morphed into a redistributionist arm of the U.N., tasked with undercutting a free market in the transportation and delivery of goods and services across international borders. It does so by requiring its “developed” member countries to heavily subsidize the transportation and delivery of packages originating from “developing” countries. This, not Chinese merchants, is the source of the problem, and this is why the U.S. should withdraw from the UPU and allow U.S. businesses to compete on a more level (and fair) playing field.
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                • Posted by $ 6 years, 4 months ago
                  While that may be the real background, it still is not coordinated with the whole postal service debacle that has gone on for that last 20-40 years. Unless international shippers/conveyors are required to carry foreign mail and goods for whatever they pay at the sending site, the US postal customer is going to foot the bill for anything incoming, as well as outgoing. Maybe that is why it has become hideously expensive to send things to deployed troops in the last few years....
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        • Posted by $ 6 years, 4 months ago
          MIke, I do not believe that is correct, as I have been watching the train wreck called USPS for years now, and it is just an ongoing scam of the government, because they cannot kill it off. I believe CBJ is correct here.
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    • Posted by $ 6 years, 4 months ago
      The crime is in "buying votes" by sending unsolicited junk to people, then pretending to be those people to provide feedback and "hallelujah" chorus about them. I agree that it is no great crime, my point was what the heck do you do with 5000 or so plastic bracelets or whatever? I wouldn't really want to deal with a mound of junk, St Josephs Indian school has me in "dreamcatchers" the same way.
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      • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 6 years, 4 months ago
        This is an example of how conservatives are different from Objectivists. You did not show any loss of rights. "Buying votes" and faking responses is an old merchandising technique. It might not be the intransigent integrity of Howard Roark or Hank Rearden, but it is no different than a famous basketball player's name on a pair of shoes. (Chuck Taylor played high school basketball only -- "Taylor claimed to play professional basketball from 1918 to 1930 on various teams, including the Buffalo Germans and Original Celtics. No record of Taylor exists playing for any of the teams he claimed."-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_T... No one's rights were violated.).

        I just bought a copy of Forever War which was recommended often by my officers from the national guard. The edition I picked up has an endorsement from William Gibson. He claimed to be a "draft dodger" but actually was never even that, and he says that this is the best war story he ever read. It might be. But his endorsement is just puffery, but no harm, no foul.

        And you must, of course, know that eBay's success was built on fake stats. Again, no loss of rights was involved. I do not endorse caveat emptor as a business strategy, but take care of my own interests anyway.
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        • Posted by $ 6 years, 4 months ago
          Mike, my point is the invasion of privacy and hijacking of a persons name and reputation, even as a aggregate of "votes". May not seem a crime by law, but is in my book. Forever War was a really good book by the way, very good at addressing the w"why to fight and when to quit" question. Listened to it as an audio book a long way back after reading it when it first came out.
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