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Groups leading the charge for free market healthcare

Posted by BrettRocketSci 7 years, 5 months ago to Business
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In my quest to find objectivist-leaning companies and business owners with whom to trade with, my highest priority now is healthcare providers. For anyone paying attention (which ought to be everyone here), you know the medical industry in the US is headed dangerously towards a complete government takeover with socialized medicine as a fundamental "right."

There are a lot of doctors and healthcare providers who are unhappy (or worse) about this. It's very hard for me to understand how and why they have let things go this far down the road to serfdom... but here we are my friends.

In my search for regional or local capitalist medical providers, I have found some national groups that are promoting this approach. Here's the list.

When you see who is here, please ask yourself these questions:
Do you recognize any of them as having efforts in your area?
Do you have any experience or knowledge with a group that you can share?

Some of these groups organize on a chapter level. I'm investigating options and tradeoffs to determine which group(s) would be best to engage and propose for action in my Sacramento CA region. (Being the capital for the People's State of California, it's a target-rich landscape and a trend-setter for the rest of the country.)

If you happen to know anyone near me who might want to learn about future happenings and efforts, I'd greatly appreciate a referral or introduction. A coalition or network is forming. I have some doctors and med students eager to save their careers and independent judgment (and future wealth). Thanks, Brett

Free Market Medical Association (FMMA)
https://fmma.org/providers/

Association of American Physicians and Surgeons.
This group has a broad and inclusive name like the AMA (Amer Medical Association) but their materials and efforts are refreshingly pro-liberty.
https://aapsonline.org/

Docs 4 Patient Care Foundation
https://d4pcfoundation.org/

They have a member who has created this:
Manual for starting up a DPC practice:
https://dpcmanual.com/

Benjamin Rush Institute
https://www.benjaminrushinstitute.org/

Finally, here is a doctor office in Wichita KS who I've been told about as an objectivist-principled practice. He put Atlas in his name so he must be serious about it. ;-)
Atlas MD - Josh Umbehr, MD
https://atlas.md/wichita/about-us/our...

If anyone has more suggestions I'll be grateful to learn about them. But please keep it focused on groups who are focused on IMPLEMENTING free market healthcare NOW at the STATE or LOCAL level, Not publishing white papers and lobbying in DC. Or tackling a lot of other issues besides heatlhcare. I am laser focused and need a group aligned with my goals (and values).


All Comments


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  • Posted by 7 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thanks for that book reference. Hadn't heard of it. But I am thinking of something more specific about how to pursue and obtain your own free market healthcare without waiting for a system to be built for it (and without waiting for the current system to get replaced). "The riches are in the niches" for those who provide valuable information and resources on it. Such a resource would be a valuable tool to help the movement along too. Let me know how that sounds to you.
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes. There’s a good book on the subject. ALONGSIDE NIGHT. About freedom loving people avoiding government intrusions but living quietly in plain sight. Example would be trading quietly. with like minded people without the drag of income taxation
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The concierge group in Las Vegas is called MDVIP $125 per month. Think of it like a Costco card that grants you fast access ( like appointments same day if you need it) Once inside you still pay for the services you use
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  • Posted by ewv 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Medical licenses have been required for a very long time. It has not meant the government defines what medicine is. It defines what the license is required for and what people cannot do without it, not what doctors can do after they have a license. (That does not justify the licensing.)

    Your doctor does more than rote reading test numbers when you see him, he looks for other symptoms and exercises judgment in context. The first problem with automatic diagnostics is validation of specific uses. When your gps directs you to drive over a cliff you know not to do that (though some have not). Medical judgment is harder than that, but there are some real time diabetes-related tests you can do at home now (and are), then use them to decide what to eat, etc. to compensate or whether to see a doctor sooner. But the intrusive FDA bureaucracy has made everything more expensive.
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  • Posted by ewv 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Using it to buy prescriptions following the doctor's advice would break US law. A doctor giving advice from a foreign country or a foreign provider of software, without a US medical license, breaks the law but the US government has no jurisdiction as long as they stay out of the country. Your own compliance with the law involves what you do, including maybe 'conspiring' with the doctor or software provider, if they want to get nasty.
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  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Requiring a license does define who is in the profession and how one gets into it -- which defines what medical care is. Requiring that you have a licensed professional to get care restricts the avenues of care to those defined by that process which is necessarily slow to react to changing technology as is all government based regulations.

    And, yes, I do watch my diet glucose levels and exercise. My point is not that the advice is wrong, simply that one doesn't need years of medical school to know that. Much less expensive mechanisms could be developed to monitor the vast majority of the millions of patients with type II diabetes, many of whom are going completely without any care or medication because they can't afford to "go to a doctor".

    There have been good diagnostic tools available for some time. Part of the problem is the validation -- we consider a doctor as valid if he goes to an accredited school and passes an exam. We don't have a good way of validating the software.
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    As a patient, how would using AI software or having a video chat with a doctor in a foreign country be breaking U.S. law?
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  • Posted by ewv 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    We need not replacement by a different kind of argument than Leonard Peikoff's, but rather more of it, along with more ongoing detailed knowledge and arguments necessary for affecting public policy -- both for helping to illustrate the consequences of government control and to implement changes once their is a better chance to get the direction of change right. In other words, the philosophic arguments are crucial, but so is expertise. Philosophy can't implement itself.
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  • Posted by ewv 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You also have the problem of reliability. Reputation of foreign web sites, let alone the possibility of outright fraud, is harder to monitor.
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  • Posted by ewv 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Requiring a license to practice medicine does not define medicine. Medical professional do that through the state of the art and science of medicine, though they are increasingly limited by bureaucracy in general application.

    Whatever AI might be able to do in the future, it can't do that now. There have been many projects trying to implement expert systems and more in software for medical diagnoses and other kinds of professional judgment. I would expect that the first practical systems would be used by doctors themselves who use it for improved efficiency and coverage of knowledge while still maintaining a true expert's oversight of the results.

    I hope your experiences with routine medical checks watching your diabetes mean that it is stable and under control the best possible. Periodic checks are necessary to detect changes that might otherwise be obscure or missed, with the knowledge to know what to further investigate. I think the insurance company requires professional checks on what might seem an obvious candidate for self-help because they would rather pay for the tests and professional insights than risk paying more later because a large number of patients would not be responsible or because rote tests are not necessarily sufficient.

    As for the injunction to lose weight, I hope you are. Obesity causes all kinds of problems in addition to diabetes, and that is something else for the doctor to watch for. Too much time in front of keypunch/terminal/workstation/PC without compensating activity is not good :-(

    One of the objections doctors have against the current system is that they aren't allotted the proper time to talk to a visiting patient for more personal attention beyond routine checks.
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  • Posted by 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yep, I've heard about concierge practices around me here in Northern Cali. We have people with money and options for that here. Thanks for the points.
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  • Posted by 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thanks wiggys. I remember that essay. Probably good to read again, but as ewv says we need a different kind of argument and activism today IMO. Different context than 1985.
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  • Posted by 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    What's to stop a website and company in another country offering this? Even with video chat with a licensed doctor in that country?
    Yes, they would know they are helping a US citizen to break the law in our country. But who the F cares... we have a right to get our care from anyone in the world we want. Our govt doesn't have jurisdiction over other countries when it comes to individual healthcare.
    Someone here will argue against me I'm sure. But the game is on for our capitalizing on our digital world. "Stay the hell out of my way" is my attitude, as someone once said...
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  • Posted by 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thanks for sharing the personal liberty alternatives! This is the kind of info and resources that need to be spread more. Would you have any interest in doing that?
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  • Posted by 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thanks for the rationale. This makes sense as a cause for doctors joining major networks.
    When doctor-patient relationships were more personal and direct, there was more trust and confidence between them. I wonder how DPC practices are protecting themselves from the threat of legal action...
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  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm not talking just about entering the medical profession, I'm talking about defining the medical profession. Our healthcare system is still built around the doctor with the black bag.

    At some point in the future, your primary physician will be software based, available 24/7 and have such a low cost to use it will be essentially free. It will be able to recommend tests and drugs and refer you to a specialist if you need more sophisticated care.

    But we can't build that tool today because that would be practicing medicine without a license. It will probably start in some country not dominated by the FDA where they simply can't have enough doctors and have to accept alternatives.
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I buy from www.alldaychemist.com. On the internet. Comes from large drug companies in India. Pretty much anything you need except opioid stuff. Takes a couple of weeks to get the package by mail from India. Us drug companies are fighting this, probably because they are a threat
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  • Posted by ewv 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Medicine: The Death of a Profession" is in the anthology The Voice of Reason: Essays in Objectivist Thought along with Ayn Rand's "How Not to Fight Against Socialized Medicine" from the 1963 fight that stopped President Kennedy's precursor to Johnson's Medicare. https://www.amazon.com/Voice-Reason-O...

    As usual, "I told you so" means it is too late, at least for that phase and today's mess. It is not too late to give a proper argument against the current schemes to prevent the failures of government controlled medicine from being used as an excuse for extending them instead of getting rid of them.
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