Understanding Progressives
Posted by strugatsky 7 years, 5 months ago to Politics
Today, I had accidentally gone to a meeting of Liberals/Progressives, about 20 of them, on the subject of healthcare. The topic was intentionally advertised so as to conceal its aim and I, in a state of bliss, took the bait. Disappointed at first, I ended up almost enjoying it, for this was not the typical college uneducated crowd of children (per Obamacare, childhood has now been officially defined as 0-26), but a geriatric congregation where some of the patients may have gone to real schools back then. So I stayed. What I learned was quite interesting. The presenter was a retired medical doctor, whose medical expertise I won't question (though he seemingly retired at an earlier age than most), but whose lack of understanding of economics and other subjects which he proclaimed to champion was astounding. It was like listening to a NFL player or a Hollywood star. But most interesting was the reaction of the audience, who approvingly nodded their heads to every unsubstantiated claim. Even a claim that doctor visit deductibles are evil, as, he claimed, that a $5 deductible prevents patients from seeing a doctor – regardless of the fact that these same patients spent that on cigarettes every day. I thought that I was in a middle of circus seals, only these were too weak to clasp. As the level of bull rose above my tolerance level (quickly, actually) and I began to politely challenge with facts, the audience became most uncomfortable and their leader asked me to be quiet (of course, I did not). My main take away was the amazing shallowness of these people – every attempt at analysis, delving even a little deeper, caused them pain and anguish. I have seen this before – from the teenagers going onto 30-something, but these were supposedly adults in their 60's and 70's. Had American education failed us that long ago?
Second takeaway – the Progressives actually believe that the US economy, prior to Obama, was pure capitalism! I was and remain, at a total loss how to confront such a deviation from reality. Can anyone here help?
Second takeaway – the Progressives actually believe that the US economy, prior to Obama, was pure capitalism! I was and remain, at a total loss how to confront such a deviation from reality. Can anyone here help?
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"These military methods failed. In about a decade the Virginia Company realized profits would come only after the pioneers had a stake in their own fate, soon after, the colonists asked for a voice in government." -Eyewitness to America, David Colbert
Hope this helps....
Ayn Rand had a convenient cop-out - a secret place in the mountains. If it only existed in reality... I tried in the past, on this site and elsewhere, promoting an idea of collaboration on actually creating a physical Gulch, starting with a theoretical (paper) design. No one was interested. So, mooching it is...
In terms of going Galt...I'm in a version of it - no longer voting, no longer taking part in any conversations about things that the masses treat as religion (medicine, politics, firearms, global warming, etc...) I just sit by now and watch people come unglued being wrong. It was a tough transition for me, but has been rewarding. My next move is getting more separation between me and the addled masses...
There is the original Pilgrims who tried COMMUNAL (communism) to work the land. EVERYONE felt cheated, and therefore did as little as possible, and every year, people starved. Until he divided the land up by family and let them reap what they sow.
Suddenly, they were up early, planting early, and working hard (serving their self-interests). The complaints stopped.
And that was the first year they not only had enough food, they had excess. And celebrated.
BTW, it is MY BELIEF the the number of side dishes was really the side effect of CANNING their foods. They had a little bit of everything they canned, left over (probably ran out of jars!). That is not mentioned in the diary, but it makes sense to me.
Anyways, when you start STRIPPING that one lesson from our schools.
Then, NEVER require reading the constitution. Oh we learned the bill of rights. Because RIGHTS would become a talking point, I guess!
BTW I grew up just outside of Detroit, as a Democrat until I opened my eyes and used my talents to LEARN!
1) We have a Living Constitution
2) Judges must apply current moral norms (therefore are magical and have even higher authority)
3) Judges are apolitical by their very nature
4) Prayer in school is bad (Watched a teacher get canned for a morning prayer of thanks, she would not stop)
5) You cant fight City Hall (Teaching us to become sheep!)
6) Get out of line, your future can be DESTROYED by these people(teachers).
7) Learning is about regurgitating what the teacher wants to hear
8) We obscure things in nomenclature (rubric anyone?) so your parents can't help you, we are the only true path forward...
(we change this nomenclature: New Math (then), Common Core (now), because we are SO CLEVER)
9) We are TOO STUPID to switch to Metric...
In my daughters lifetime (she's 18):
A) Kwanza OVER Christmas
B) No Child Gets ahead
C) No Winners: All Losers
D) No bullying, UNLESS it is to pick on a kid who gets 100% all the time, then look the other way
E) Time Magazine Weekly Reader (How to calculate your carbon footprint, How Capitalism Destroys, etc)
F) Only ONE side of a conversation is REALLY allowed.
G) A teacher calls ME out because I tutored someone in her math class (who aced the class now), because having
the kid pre-read the material was giving this UNTALENTED child an advantage over the better kids!
Schools do NOT Teach HOW to learn, How to think, How to solve problems, or How to ENJOY learning. They
treat school like work, and kids don't want a job, they want to feed their creativity and grow.
It had often been said that we should stick to facts to promote our views and ideas. I think not. Facts make these creatures tired and cause alienation. Perhaps it is better to use the language they understand - hyperbole, exaggeration and fear mongering. Repeated continuously. This is the language that the Party has used successfully for over a century on every continent; maybe there something to this technique, since it achieves its goals everywhere it has been tried.
"every attempt at analysis, delving even a little deeper, caused them pain and anguish." - This is a majority of Americans. I admire your efforts to help them. But, I stopped wasting my time trying to help people. Most actually enjoy being wrong and getting terrible results and acting like they just have bad luck...LOL
In terms of economics, this doctor was way out of his breadth, but with supreme confidence kept making unsubstantiated assertions. And even when I factually pointed out his errors and incorrect assumptions, with actual examples, no one wanted to hear their fantasy crumble. It was easier to shut up the messenger. They refused to even consider an analysis, as it was way too difficult. Reminded me of Winnie the Pooh - “I’m a bear with a very simple mind; big words confuse me.”
2. Deviation from reality requires replacing it with fact. You need to find some individual or organization with expertise that has focused on the complex history of government intervention in US health care, which you can use as a source, covering its many decades of growing statist intervention before Obama. Obama was only the latest cashing in of what was already underway. So was Hillary care before that. Both were consciously intended to lead to complete government control in the phony name of a simpler "utopian" "single payer", but they were not the beginning.
As you say, that's easy for him to say since he's retired. Other thoughts:
1) It's easy to say this. The devil is in the details of who's poor and how many pro bono customers he'll take.
2) If you can't find customers and you make a deal to treat some for free and others "for free" to the customer but actually using, their money, then you come out ahead of someone trying and failing to get people to part with their money voluntarily.
At a networking event a doctor once said to my wife and me, "Wow. I can see how hard that is for you as an attorney and engineer. You can't bill insurance. You have to convince the customer to write a check with their own money."
That's partly fundraiser networking small talk, but I sensed it was true. I sensed a lot of doctors in my area would find it daunting to have to find customers and convince them the service is worth the price.
You ask what this says about generational traits, education during the 60s and 70s, political philosophy, President Obama's impact on economic freedoms. Unfortunately I think you are way overthinking this. He's talking to providers struggling to get customers. All the philosophical stuff is window dressing around the idea of taking from unwilling customers and giving it to him.