GOP tax bill doomed by 'class warfare' tactics—Commentary

Posted by $ nickursis 6 years, 5 months ago to Government
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This article actually illustrates the real issue at hand: "With Republicans like this, who needs Democrats"? If they want to keep Shillery out of the next run, and themselves all out of jail on faked charges, they better dump McConnell and Ryan and find a couple of semi honest creatures that will at least do a "little" something for people. Right now, it is almost like the acceleration seen in the last half of AS, when the looters start to loose all their opportunities to rip everyone else off....
SOURCE URL: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/08/gop-tax-bill-doomed-by-class-warfare-tactics-commentary.html


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  • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 5 months ago
    Every "tax cut" plan presented so far raises taxes on some people to "pay for" lowering other people's tax bills. An honest tax cut would require Congress to start with the existing system, and lower (or eliminate) specified federal taxes, without raising any other tax rates to "pay for" the overall drop in government revenue.
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    • Posted by $ 6 years, 5 months ago
      CBJ, thank you, this argument has been raging around what different tax cuts mean and to whom they serve in another thread. You point sums up the situation perfectly. There is no tax cut when they manipulate the rules for one group or another with no cuts in spending, it is all smoke and mirrors.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 5 months ago
      They're trying to do a tax cut and simplification. It's an unfair standard for "simplification" to say no one's taxes can go up. Part of simplifying things means some people's taxes go up or down. To me the complaint that some people's taxes went up is a way of politically torpedoing the plan. Because there's a cut aspect to it, it's a net decrease in taxes. BTW, because it's borrowed, it's a tax for someone else in the future.

      If I were in charge of it, I would want to see the deficit decrease at the same rate as while Obama was president, roughly 100 billion a year. I'd also want to pass the tax cut and simplification. That would mean closing some bases, not doing some next-generation fighter planes, closing prisons, reducing funding of cities and states, and so on-- nothing radical, but enough to cover 100 billion in deficit reduction plus 100 billion in tax reduction. In the future, you could do another round of tax cuts, a straight cut where everyone's goes down, but you'd have to have another debate on which programs to cut.

      My suggestion would not be politically feasible because while everyone wants to cut, gov't they want to cut only "waste", i.e. things that in no way benefit them.

      I predict they'll not be able to pass tax simplification. They don't even pretend to want to slow the growth in gov't. All that's left is to increase borrowing and do an across-the-board cut guaranteed to cut all tax-payers taxes. Even that is hard to pass because people say it only provides a small cut to middle-class families, and it's hard politically to say, "middle-class families don't pay that much now." They condemned Romney for saying it. "How can you say that. These are hardworking people-- soldiers, nurses, teachers, and so on.." He wasn't saying they're bad people, just stating that they don't pay much in taxes, so a tax cut won't affect them that much.

      I wish being registered Democrat meant I got a dividend when Republicans make themselves look like asses. But I get nothing out of it. So I hope they manage to cut taxes, simplify them, and in my dreams cut the deficit. I don't see it happening.
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      • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 5 months ago
        The “Obama deficit reduction” is completely bogus, since the base year occurred at the height of the financial crisis when the deficit had tripled from the year before. The average deficit for the four years preceding the crisis was $285 billion. The average deficit for the past four years has been nearly double that amount, at $547 billion, and continues at approximately that rate.

        And it is certainly possible to simplify the tax code without raising anyone’s taxes. Eliminating some taxes outright while lowering the remaining tax rates will accomplish this goal. Any tax plan that raises taxes for some while lowering taxes for others is a redistribution scheme and deserves to be “torpedoed”.

        As for “because it's borrowed, it's a tax for someone else in the future,” the best short-run solution would be to begin issuing pure “unbacked” fiat money to fund the deficit, rather than going further into debt. The inflationary impact of unbacked dollars would be no different than the inflationary impact of the same amount of debt-backed dollars, and such a policy would call a halt to the increase in the national debt and its crushing $400+ billion in annual interest payments. See www.fixourmoney.com .
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        • Posted by ewv 6 years, 5 months ago
          Much of what they are doing doesn't even pretend to "simplify", which is now only a euphemism for raising taxes by eliminating deductions. There is a lot more complexity in the tax code to go after than a simple deduction of state and local income taxes and property taxes, which calculation is subtraction of a couple of numbers and isn't complex at all. It's a deliberate double tax intended to punish people more in some states.

          But deliberately directly inflating the money supply would be disastrous. They also won't do it because the effects are too immediately and starkly obvious as visible prices are seen increasing. They will continue to devalue the money in more hidden manipulation while lying about the real price inflation rate.
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          • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 5 months ago
            Re: “deliberately directly inflating the money supply would be disastrous.” Actually it would be much less “disastrous” than adding to the already sky-high national debt. See www.fixourmoney.com .

            Fiat money is inferior to money backed by hard assets. But some forms of fiat money are superior to others. Here are just a few of the advantages of issuing “debt-free” instead of “debt-based” fiat money:

            Issuing pure fiat money freezes the national debt at its current level. This gives the economy “breathing room” to begin paying down the debt. It prevents the national debt from growing to the point of triggering an economic collapse.

            It allows us to slowly pay down the national debt, without massive tax increases and politically unacceptable cuts to “entitlements”. A large majority of the federal budget, including Social Security and Medicare, requires increased spending each year but is politically “untouchable”. Under these circumstances, the continued use of debt-based money will require a substantial increase in the national debt, while debt-free money will permit us to begin retiring it.

            It steadily reduces the amount of taxpayer funds diverted to pay interest on the debt. Most people are unaware that annual interest on the national debt is currently approaching $500 billion dollars, an amount equal to $2,000 annually per adult American! Decoupling the deficit from the debt allows these funds to be invested in more productive enterprises.

            It removes a major impediment to implementing deep, across-the-board tax cuts. We no longer have to “pay for” tax relief by taking on more debt.

            It eases debt-related pressure on the federal budget. Instead of increasing each year and “crowding out” funding for necessary government services, interest on the national debt decreases each year and frees additional funds for other priorities.

            It shifts some of the Federal Reserve’s power back to Congress. While transitioning away from debt-based money does not “end the Fed”, it does limit the power of the Federal Reserve to control U.S. monetary policy, restoring much of this authority to Congress as originally specified in the Constitution.

            It ends our financial dependence on our international creditors. Debt-free money removes any influence on U.S. policy that foreign governments might enjoy by virtue of their ownership of U.S. government bonds.

            It removes a major cause of government “shutdowns”. Ending the debt “backing” of our currency puts an end to the periodic political crises brought on by the continuous need to raise the national debt ceiling. It thus reduces uncertainty about the ability of the government to perform its responsibilities without interruption.

            And it halts the practice of “kicking the can down the road”. Any adverse consequences of overspending will be felt in the near term, with no additional mess left for our “grandchildren” to clean up at a later date.
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            • Posted by $ 6 years, 5 months ago
              How about reducing spending and eliminating all the BS stuff and corruption? That would cut the budget needs significantly. Not that that would ever happen, but makes the whole concern on currency manipulation (of any form) seem rather inane, as it is only to cover up their real problem.
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            • Posted by ewv 6 years, 5 months ago
              None of that addresses the disastrous effects of massive price inflation from deliberate, direct inflation of the money supply. It is even worse than the 1970s.
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              • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 5 months ago
                Increasing the money supply with “printed” dollars is no more “disastrous” than increasing the money supply by the same amount with “borrowed” dollars. And taxpayers are not forced to pay interest (currently over $2000 per year for every adult American!) on dollars that are not “borrowed”.

                And the money supply actually needs to increase a certain amount each year to keep the value of the dollar stable. Under a gold standard, the government provides a mechanism for this necessary increase in the money supply: turning gold bullion into coins. Each gold coin minted increases the amount of money in circulation without impacting the federal budget.

                In a fiat money system, however, the amount of money in circulation at any time is tied to the government’s accumulated budget deficit. If the goal is a stable unit of account and medium of exchange, one which neither appreciates nor depreciates, the growth rate of the money supply must approximate the growth rate of goods and services in the economy. In a fiat economy, this means that the federal government must spend more money than it receives in taxes. But the government does not have to go further into debt to do so, it can simply “print” enough money to cover the deficit. The inflationary effect, if any, will be the same in either case. If the deficit is too large, price inflation will result regardless of whether the money is “printed” or “borrowed”.
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                • Posted by $ 6 years, 5 months ago
                  Manipulation of currency is almost a big a crime as murder, simply because it arttificially changes the value equation. If you are paid 10.00 and the money supply increases so your 10 is now worth 9, your value for value equation has been changed. It is like watering down chocolate milk to make it go further, petty soon it isn't chocolate milk. Every government intervention in currency inevitably screws the people using it.
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                  • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 5 months ago
                    Re: “Every government intervention in currency inevitably screws the people using it.” True, but with “borrowed” debt-based money you get screwed over twice, first by inflation and second by being forced to pay interest on the national debt. With debt-free “printed” money you avoid the second outcome.
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                • Posted by ewv 6 years, 5 months ago
                  There are no excuses for government inflation for anyone's "needs". Inflation in the name of avoiding debt is a disastrous sham. We have seen the results of that here and historically worldwide.
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                  • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 5 months ago
                    Who said anything about anyone’s “needs”, or inflation in the name of avoiding debt? The current setup is going to produce price inflation with or without debt. Inflation without debt is clearly less destructive of our economic well-being and our liberty than inflation plus debt. Most of the well-known hyperinflations during the past century resulted from attempts to deal with massive national debts, such as the one imposed on Germany after World War I.
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                    • Posted by ewv 6 years, 5 months ago
                      You wrote that the money supply needs to increase and you are advocating inflation to avoid debt. None of the very serious problems of the current system are solved by overt printing of money, which is much worse faster. For all all the inflation now implicit in the Federal Reserve System, borrowing from bond holders does not inflate the currency supply; it takes it from those investing in exchange for interest.

                      Rejecting inflation as a substitute for debt is not an endorsement of the current system, which is doomed to eventual failure. If they continue, which it appear they are, to accumulate borrowing they will reach a point in which all the borrowing goes to nothing but paying interest. That is a major reason why they are artificially depressing interest rates now -- it manipulates how much the government has to spend on interest payments. And that is only one element of the many current machinations. Another form of borrowing is the government borrowing from itself as it spends taxes collected for Social Security and Medicare that the government will eventually be unable to pay. out of the alleged trust fund that does not exist.
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                      • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 5 months ago
                        “You wrote that the money supply needs to increase . . . “
                        True

                        “ . . . and you are advocating inflation to avoid debt.”
                        Not true. Nowhere in my posts do I advocate inflation, I simply propose that if the government runs an excessive deficit (as it is doing now), “printed” money is less harmful to the economy and to individual rights than “borrowed” money. (Of course, hard money is superior to any form of fiat money, and in an Objectivist society money would be issued privately.)

                        Here’s why “printing” money does not necessarily produce inflation, why a budget deficit is necessary in a fiat economy, and why debt-free fiat money is superior to debt-based fiat money:

                        Imagine for a moment that you live in a country on a gold standard. One day the government decrees that henceforth it will no longer issue any new gold coins, and further decrees that its existing gold coins are the only forms of legal tender that will be officially sanctioned. The country’s money supply is now “stable”, but its value is not. As the economy continues to grow and the demand for money increases, existing gold coins quickly acquire a premium over other forms of gold, because of their value as that country’s units of account and media of exchange. If the “no new coinage” policy continues for long, this premium will continue to increase, and distortions such as trade and credit imbalances will begin to appear. By freezing the money supply, the government undercuts the ability of gold to effectively perform its vital role as a stable unit of account and medium of exchange. Eventually such a country must either resume gold coinage or consider itself, for all practical purposes, to be off the gold standard.

                        The above exercise demonstrates that an increase in the money supply is not bad in itself. Within a productive economy, it is a natural and necessary means of providing a reasonably stable unit of account and medium of exchange. This is true whether a country’s monetary system is fiat or gold-based.

                        Under a gold standard, the government provides a mechanism for this necessary increase in the money supply: turning gold bullion into coins. Each gold coin minted increases the amount of money in circulation, even though the existing amount of gold in the country and the world remains the same. And the government can transform any amount of gold into coins and release them into circulation without creating an imbalance in its budget. Under a gold standard, both a balanced federal budget and a continuing increase in the money supply can easily coexist, because neither policy creates a problem for the other one.

                        The exact opposite is true in a fiat money system. A balanced federal budget and an increase in the money supply cannot coexist at all, because the amount of money in circulation at any time is tied to the government’s accumulated budget deficit.

                        If the U.S. government begins balancing its budget, it will issue no new money. Therefore the money supply will remain constant while the amount of goods and services increases. This will lead to the same distortions that would be encountered in a hard-money economy if the mintage of gold coins were suspended: the value of each dollar will increase relative to the amount of goods and services it can buy. This may appear to be a good thing compared to the opposite situation we face today, but it isn’t. At present, excess money creation favors debtors over creditors, allowing them to discharge their debts in ever-cheaper dollars while their nominal wages are rising. Freezing the currency in place would favor creditors over debtors, who would be forced to pay back their debts in appreciating dollars as their nominal wages were being forced down. Neither of these outcomes is desirable. Either too much or too little money creation leads to imbalances within the economy. If the goal is a stable unit of account and medium of exchange, one which neither appreciates nor depreciates, the growth rate of the money supply must approximate the growth rate of goods and services in the economy.

                        To create the additional money needed to keep the dollar’s value stable in a fiat economy, the federal government must spend more money than it receives in taxes. There is no way around it. But the consequences of this deficit spending are very different for debt-based money and debt-free money. Under a debt-based monetary regime, the national debt (and its taxpayer-funded interest payments) must increase in lockstep with the increase in the money supply. Under a debt-free system this money supply increase can be accommodated even as the national debt is being slowly paid off. Clearly debt-free fiat money is the better alternative in this regard.
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                        • Posted by ewv 6 years, 5 months ago
                          Printing "fiat money" backed by nothing for spending instead of borrowing is monetary inflation. It is counterfeiting to avoid debt and leads, as always, to price inflation. Everyone knows that and no one will take such a recommendations seriously. There are no shortcuts.
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                          • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 5 months ago
                            I backed up my statements with detailed analysis and arguments. Can you likewise back up your assertions above, or refute anything I said? “Everyone knows” is not a logical argument, and certainly not an Objectivist one.
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                            • Posted by $ 6 years, 5 months ago
                              CBJ, I would have to lean towards ewv's point, if just because we have historical fact to prove it happens, Germany in the late 20's, Zimbabwe and venbeuzuela all did the money printing thing, with Zimbabwe being the biggest winner in note department, with a 1 billion unit note that was worth like 3 cents only a few years ago, and we know 3 cents is pretty worthless today. It will invariably lead to a revolt to get the wages to match the costs, or a reset with a new currency. Either is bad for us. My question is, if the government knows how much it prints, but with held or masked the data, could they get away with it for a while? The Feds opted for "qualitative easing" which was just a new take on it using bonds instead.
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                              • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 5 months ago
                                The German (1921-23) and Hungarian (1945-46) hyperinflations were the products of special circumstances and were not triggered by a political desire to spend recklessly. Each country was on the losing side of a world war and found itself weighed down by a huge and unpayable war debt imposed by the victors (the Soviet Union, in the case of Hungary). Reparations had to be delivered in the form of gold, goods and hard currency. In an attempt to pay off these debts, each country printed massive amounts of its official currency to purchase the assets required to pay these reparations. Neither country had any alternative. This practice directly triggered both ruinous hyperinflations.

                                The more recent bout of unrestrained money printing in Zimbabwe, which led to hyperinflation, was facilitated by massive government corruption, draconian political and economic controls, and widespread expropriation and destruction of farms and other productive enterprises. These preconditions for hyperinflation do not exist in any advanced market-based economy. If such circumstances do arise someday in the U.S., backing our fiat money with government bonds will not save the country from a financial meltdown; it will likely make matters worse.

                                It’s worth noting that the U.S. today has one thing in common with postwar Germany and Hungary: the presence of a government debt that we are increasingly unable to pay back. We can continue “kicking the can down the road” as our national debt continues to become more unmanageable, or we can begin to gradually pay it down. Given our present political and economic circumstances, the only way we can accomplish this is by breaking the link between the federal deficit and the national debt.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 5 months ago
          " “Obama deficit reduction” is completely bogus"
          I didn't call it that, and I don't care what they call it, if they actually reduce the deficit. (I agree completely it's the normal economic cycle that reduced the deficit.) They're masters of telling you who's to blame for something and how someone else shouldn't get credit. That's fine. Just get us the results, and they can pass a resolution along with it blaming President Obama for things and stroking rednecks' fragile egos. None of that matters to me.

          "it is certainly possible to simplify the tax code without raising anyone’s taxes. "
          This is the line that critics of a tax cut are using. It's technically true, but saying all taxes must go down makes the job harder.

          "the best short-run solution would be to begin issuing pure “unbacked” fiat money to fund the deficit"
          I'm intrigued by this idea. I wonder how the financial markets would respond to the bonds being just bought back with unbacked money rather than held on the Fed's balance sheet. I don't understand the monetary system enough to know.
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          • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 5 months ago
            Re: “saying all taxes must go down makes the job harder.” I think it would actually make the job easier. Instead of trying to perform a balancing act, offsetting some tax cuts with tax increases somewhere else, you could simply adjust the current percentage rates of existing taxes downward (or eliminate some of them altogether, like the Obamacare mandate for instance). I don’t think it would be too difficult to craft a package of tax cuts that would be popular enough to make it politically risky for Democrats to oppose.
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            • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 5 months ago
              "you could simply adjust the current percentage rates of existing taxes downward"
              I agree completely. That's cutting taxes- easy. I'm saying it's hard to do three things at once: 1) cut taxes, 2) simply taxes, and 3) have no one's taxes increase. The reason is simplifying means getting rid of tax breaks and loopholes. If the attacks that someone's taxes went up are politically effective, they should pick #1 and #3 and put off #2.
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              • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 5 months ago
                I agree. #1 and #3 are much more important than #2. The lower the tax rate, the less important it is to get rid of tax breaks and loopholes.
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                • Posted by $ 6 years, 5 months ago
                  It still goes back to the fact they do not cut spending, yet want to cut taxes. That means either more borrowing to fuel their habit, or manipulating the tax system to generate the money, and not let anyone see what they are doing. It appears that that is their plan.
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      • Posted by $ 6 years, 5 months ago
        CG, I wish being a registered republican meant I got a dividend for each lie and criminal act, I would not have to work any more......Looking like asses is a politicans DNA trait, not a party item.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 5 months ago
          I actually think our justice system is pretty good and usually catches politicians' crimes. Their investigating things makes me more confident, not less.

          But when it comes to lies and looking like asses, it's totally bipartisan.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 6 years, 5 months ago
    Best line of the whole article: "But as everyone who balances their own business or household budget knows, the best way to cut deficits is to cut spending. And the Republicans simply won't do it."
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    • Posted by $ allosaur 6 years, 5 months ago
      Oh, you must be referring to what the Republicans has been blaming the Jackass Party for doing for decades.
      Do as I say, not as I do? Hopping thunder lizards! Me dino thought only the Jackasses did that.
      Say, wait, I know, maybe me dino shouldn't capitalize (j)ackass anymore like when I write "the Jackass Party."
      On this board me dino should strive to be objective and acknowledge reality by spreading the jackasses around to both parties.
      After all, J is J just like A is A, don't y'all know.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 6 years, 5 months ago
    Well, I found the process confusing.I did hear some-
    thing about repeal of the individual mandate in Oba-
    macare the other day, but if they pass the rest of the bill, I'm not sure that even then it would be worth it.
    Perhaps in the primaries, somebody could get some of these people out by pulling a Dave Brat, as was done in Virginia; I don't know what else will work.
    I don't think big government can be made cheap. What I want is abolition of government departments. Sure, go try to get integrity from politicians.
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  • Posted by term2 6 years, 5 months ago
    Both the repubs and the democrats ARE the swamp. Trump is not part of the swamp, and they both HATE him to the max for standing for draining of these sweat dealing swamp.
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Of course massive inflation is destructive, and massive inflation accompanied by a huge unpayable national debt is way more destructive than massive inflation without that debt.
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    • Posted by ewv 6 years, 4 months ago
      No it isn't. The inflation that would be required to wipe out the debt, and the bond holders along with it, would be immediately catastrophic.
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      • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 4 months ago
        The inflation required to wipe out the debt would not be catastrophic unless it was done all at once. Paying down the debt gradually with non-borrowed dollars could be done quite easily without anywhere near catastrophic consequences. Would you prefer to allow the debt to grow until default is inevitable? An inflationary default would truly be catastrophic to the world economy.
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        • Posted by ewv 6 years, 4 months ago
          A "gradual" increase in inflation paying for even current borrowing would be enormous. That is not a solution.

          If the spending and borrowing are not curtailed there will ultimately be a catastrophe. There is no sustainable method for continuing this.
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          • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 4 months ago
            My point is that the borrowing can be curtailed immediately by the issuance of non-debt-backed dollars to fund the deficit and slowly pay down the national debt. Any adverse consequences of overspending will then be felt in the near term, with no additional mess left for our “grandchildren” to clean up at a later date.

            Any catastrophe brought on by excessive spending and borrowing will be much worse and harder to correct than a catastrophe brought on by excessive spending alone.
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      • Posted by $ 6 years, 4 months ago
        I read something about the whole system right now is geared to prevent bonds from going negative. That is supposed to be in some form of control of inflation so the yields stay positive, though I don't know how they plan to manage that trick.
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        • Posted by ewv 6 years, 4 months ago
          Bond values drop when interest rates rise above the bond's rate. They are keeping interest rates artificially near zero. That has the direct effect of 'protecting' bond values. It also makes it artificially easier for government to pay the interest costs for its borrowing.

          It also leads to an 'easy money' policy that is inflationary (which reduces the value of the principle of any fixed investment -- like cash in the bank -- from what it otherwise would be). The easy money policy is a major factor in why the stock market has risen so much despite the economy not being nearly as good as you might otherwise think it is from stock market values. Price inflation is not uniform across the economy; prices go up first where the new money is being spent. As the effects build up over time inflation wrecks the whole economy; a large monetary inflation is even worse.

          The are so many gimmicks in place now with spending, borrowing, inflation, and controls that is practically impossible to track what is happening while we wait for a the inevitable chickens coming home to roost.
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  • Posted by walkabout 6 years, 5 months ago
    After the War between the States, the Congress of the United States passed 3 amendments to the Constitution in an effort to end the vestiges of "the Peculiar Institution." 50 years later another congress reinstated SLAVERY by passing the 16th Amendment allowing the government to have the legal right to the work product of anyone in the country they chose to steal from. Initially they promised no one but the very rich would ever pay the Income Tax and that no one would ever pay more than a percentage or two. So much for the promises of the new Masters. It is critical that the 16th Amendment be repealed (it would be nice if the 17th and the 26th were repealed too). While many schems for taxing Americans can and have been dreamed up, the FairTax is, in my opinion, the best. It completely and honestly untaxes the poor, it encourages investment and independence and it limits how much money the government can collect in taxes by tying taxation to economic success -- so when Congress commits stupid and hurts the economy it quickly impacts tax revenues. Passing the FairTax Act (H.R. 25) would create record growth in the American Economy "as far as the eye can see." Any, tinkering with the current system of enslavement only limits the damage and will quickly be undone (as was the so-called Reagan tax plan. FairTax returns the power to the people where it belongs.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 6 years, 5 months ago
    Just another dreary day with slimy RINOs sloshing around a swamp they now own but dearly want to keep crony status quo.
    ~slosh, slosh, slosh~
    Here those creepy critters come, there they slime off to go.
    Despair all ye taxpayers who prop up this mucky wasteland of woe.
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    • Posted by $ 6 years, 5 months ago
      And no way to remove them, the peasants will keep sending them back....
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      • Posted by $ allosaur 6 years, 5 months ago
        Sheeple peasants must like the water moccasins me dino lost count of killing while growing up in the Deep South. I've only been able to kill them when they fully expose themselves on land where they look fatter and uglier compare to most other snakes.
        That's why cottonmouths prefer to lurk unseen below the surface of fresh water. Water that conceals them with weeds and lily pads is all the better for those sneaky snakes.
        Every once in a while you can see one poke its head above the surface to look around. Unlike most water snakes, a cottonmouth will make a ripple as it submerges.
        In a way that's how you can by their actions perceive a RINO for what that sneaky evil creature really is.
        Never mind the sweet nothings that come from that pretty cotton mouth when it is to be reelected . . . again, again and again.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 4 months ago
    The same things I don't like about taxes make it hard to cut taxes-- once gov't is this big it's naturally for groups to work out winners and losers in the game of gov't taxing and spending. NYT front page has an in-depth analysis of who would gain or lose a couple thousand bucks a year. Of course this is the natural consequence of any simplification of the taxes.
    https://nyti.ms/2icXs4P

    It's not even the increased borrowing that makes it hard to pass. It's everyone with their hand out, "hey, why did my neighbor get a cut and I didn't?" It's so bogus b/c your tax situation changes every year. Simpler and lower taxes are generally better.

    The winners/losers chart in the NYT article shows exactly why we need lower and simpler taxes.
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    My point was that a large and unpayable debt leads to hyperinflation. Debt-free fiat money avoids that particular pitfall. Debt-based fiat money does not.
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I never said it was. You haven't addressed any of my points.
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    • Posted by ewv 6 years, 5 months ago
      You advocated printing unbacked paper money in massive amounts instead of borrowing. That is monetary inflation. You tried to dismiss the danger of inflation by saying "hyperinflations were the products of special circumstances", as if it were not destructive by principle for what it is. Your long arguments of "points" do not address or justify the inflation you advocate and require no further discussion.
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      • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 5 months ago
        I do not advocate inflation. But if we are going to have a fiat currency, “printing” money directly is preferable to issuing spendable IOUs and interest-paying bonds. Both forms of fiat money are inflationary, but “printed” money doesn’t put taxpayers on the hook for endless rising interest payments, which currently amount to thousands of dollars per taxpayer per year.
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        • Posted by ewv 6 years, 4 months ago
          Borrowing through sale of bonds does not inflate the currency. Printing money does. Yes the debt is a big problem. Inflation is not a solution.
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          • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 4 months ago
            Re: "Borrowing through sale of bonds does not inflate the currency." Then we haven't had any inflation for the past 50 years. Who would have guessed?
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            • Posted by ewv 6 years, 4 months ago
              Borrowing existing money and inflating the money supply through the Fed are two different processes.
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              • Posted by $ CBJ 6 years, 4 months ago
                For all practical purposes they are part of the same process, as described by the St. Louis Fed:

                “Deficits can be a source of inflation if they are accommodated by monetary policy-that is, if the Federal Reserve responds to higher deficits by increasing the growth of money. The Federal Reserve has two ways of responding to higher deficits:

                1. The central bank directly purchases the securities issued by the government to finance the deficits.
                2. The private sector purchases these same securities; then, the central bank attempts to limit any potential interest rate increases.

                Under either scenario, deficits lead to greater money base growth, which can create inflationary pressure.”

                https://www.stlouisfed.org/Publicatio...

                So an excessive deficit will be inflationary regardless of whether the money is “printed” or “borrowed”. The difference is that “printing” the money does not create a huge national debt and its accompanying interest burden on the taxpayers.
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                • Posted by ewv 6 years, 4 months ago
                  The government borrowing money from itself is a means of inflation. It is not the same process as borrowing, but they do mix them together to different degrees.
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