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We Live in an Era of Mass Delusion

Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 6 months ago to Philosophy
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We've discussed this, we've read about it, we've been warned; but, boy...does this hit home.

“If one can isolate the mass, allow no free thinking, no free exchange, no outside corrective, and can hypnotize the group daily with noises, with press and radio and television, with fear and pseudo-enthusiasms, any delusion can be instilled. People will begin to accept the most primitive and inappropriate acts.”

"The only way we can give man the strength to withstand mental infection is through giving him the utmost freedom in the exchange of ideas."

Lately it seems, I owe my sanity to all of you at the Gulch...Thank you
SOURCE URL: http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/we-live-era-mass-delusion?roi=echo3-47568736077-44846610-d45358d9df5b548dd045f7cdaea8158f


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  • Posted by $ Abaco 6 years, 6 months ago
    "In The Rape of the Mind, Joost Meerloo makes the point that there are times of mass delusion and that they often become totalitarian."

    I'll keep saying it. "Those who can make you believe fallacies can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

    Yes...we are right on the cusp of that now...
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    • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
      It very well might be a cycle that matches up with the solar cycles and it can either go bad or good depending upon culture base; The Me or the We generation...forget the authors name but this is a recent realization...80 cycle...the swing of the pendulum.
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  • Posted by term2 6 years, 6 months ago
    When Milo (dont remember his last name) tried to speak at Berkeley but violence erupted, I remember thinking that I would like to actually see or read what the dude has to say myself, rather than listen to the media.

    So I bought his book DANGEROUS and started reading it. I find that he is not some sort of idiot kook, but is a real free thinker, loves Ayn Rand, and speaks his mind at the time (albeit a bit graphically and subject to being distilled into sound bites by the media). I would go see him speak if he did so locally, or watch it on TV (probably safer in this land of liberals). He doesnt pretend to be perfect, and he is right out there when it comes to speaking his mind, but I do detect a substantial glimmer of rationality in his thinking. For sure, I would rather have him as a neighbor than a hillary supporter...
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    • Posted by maxxal22 6 years, 6 months ago
      Milo is always portrayed like some fool who "can't really believe what he is saying", whilst in reality he is quite a free thinker
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      • Posted by term2 6 years, 6 months ago
        I just reacted to the intense disapproval of him by the leftists, so I decided to get his book and read it. I agree with you that he is a free thinker and I am impressed. I would go to see him talk. The left HATES him because he speaks the truth, in my humble opinion
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  • Posted by rbroberg 6 years, 6 months ago
    The Left know they are unable to control others' introspection. There is no such device currently in existence which can direct the internal attention of a mind. (Is such a device even possible?) Yet, the theory of Marxism understands that reality is related to consciousness. Marxism further treats consciousness as a byproduct of reality. Where Marxism misses the mark is when it treats consciousness as non-axiomatic.

    So Marxism correctly understands physical reality and consciousness are related and further understands existence has primacy over consciousness. But can it also extend to claim that control over physical reality enables more extensive control over consciousness? That depends on whether it does or does not believe in non-initiation-of-the-use-of-physical-force. An explanation follows:

    What Leftism fails to recognize is the axiomaticity of consciousness. While it succeeds in some degree of control, i.e. control over media, industries, healthcare, banking, etc., the Left does not understand that human beings with the power of consciousness, introspection, and independence also have the power to come to opposite conclusions. That is, it does not see alternatives to its own dogma and, as such, is stagnant. The danger of the Left is its refusal to acknowledge Stalinism and thought policing as an essential product of Marxism. Instead, it sees its own authoritarianism as contingent on the eschewing of capitalism. This is why vocal opposition to Marxism and Leftism is critical. The Marxist Left simply cannot extend the claim that control over physical reality enables control over consciousness while there is any understanding that man cannot initiate the use of physical force against others.

    The principle of not initiating the use of physical force really is the pillar of our society. It is also what distinguishes garden-variety Socialists from hardcore Communists, the latter of whom believe in violent revolution. Thus, the affirmation and optimism really relies on the fact that even certain brands of communism believe in non-violent socialist revolution. The Marxists do not understand that non-violence undercuts the essential method of Leftist propaganda and thought-control.
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    • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
      Great commentary and understanding of the left, marxism and their lack of awareness and integration
      One that has a strong connection to the mind can not be controlled. One might be fooled temporarily but conscious introspection will always win out.
      They can only influence and control those that have a weak connection to the mind or none at all...after 100 years of "information noise" there are many, maybe even 50% that have no connection to the mind. Just brains in a body reflecting the image of those in control.
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    • -1
      Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 6 months ago
      "the Left does not understand that human beings with the power of consciousness, introspection, and independence also have the power to come to opposite conclusions. That is, it does not see alternatives to its own dogma and, as such, is stagnant."
      This seems like a common foible. When people come to opposite conclusion, it's hard to dig in and find if they are starting from different axioms, using different facts, making a logical error, or some combination of them.

      "refusal to acknowledge Stalinism and thought policing as an essential product of Marxism."
      Right. Don't most Marxists say Stalin just implemented it wrong?

      "it sees its own authoritarianism as contingent on the eschewing of capitalism. "
      If the people in question are Marxist, then isn't eschewing capitalism automatic, regardless of its relationship to authoritarianism?

      "The principle of not initiating force] is also what distinguishes garden-variety Socialists from hardcore Communists, the latter of whom believe in violent revolution."
      Don't both socialists and communists agree with initiating force if the cause (according to them) is just?

      "The Marxists do not understand that non-violence undercuts the essential method of Leftist propaganda and thought-control."
      You're saying some, not all, Marxists believe in non-violence, and they do not realize Marxism and non-violence don't go together, so they are not very successful? I guess that's a good thing. I assumed when people say they want non-violent Marxism they're lying or defining violence extremely loosely.
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      • Posted by rbroberg 6 years, 6 months ago
        A. That the foible is common does not mean it does not characterize the Left.

        B. Yes.

        C. The Manifesto mentions "seizing" the means of production.

        D. Perhaps you are correct.

        E. A good thing. Most of them don't understand what their philosophy requires of someone else. Unfortunately, nor do they care.
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  • Posted by $ Stormi 6 years, 6 months ago
    We live in a time when soundbites and talking points have replace thinking. So many times I have stopped one such repeater of knowing it all, and asked for them to put the concept in their own words.So far, none have been able to do so. Kids in school are taught group think, anything else is chastised. Reason is not in their reach.
    I have sat through multiple days of meeting where the Delphi Technique was applied. They tell any ideprndent thinker that "no one else feels the way you do about this." Hogwash! They screen people and assign morons to be handlers and they separate those who do think independently. You have to know it going in, and be prepared to disarm it.
    The other day my husband and I were in a waiting room where the TV was set to CBS. We watched the audience cheer and stand up jumping as the daytime female host made her pint. We looked at each other and agreed, it was liek the Roman circus,anything to deep people from actually thinking.
    Along tose lines, what is the FBI up to. I knew they had been lonlien with the Colunbine shooters prior to that tragedy, playing mind games under assumed identities. Now, document released yesterday indicate the FBI met with the Sandy Hook shooter the day before that incincident, saying as they left to his mom they wanted him to work for them one day. Really, and just what went on there? Of course that does not fit the agenda of the fake news media to pursue that one, they are in the tank for gun control
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    • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
      Yep...project Monarch...read it and weep from Cathy O'Brien's: The Trans-Formation of America.
      She was a victim of the system from the beginning of her life. She was rescued by an FBI agent and they both testified in Congress.
      I don't think Congress did anything about it and I also think it still goes on today. The most recent...Vegas shooter comes to mind.
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  • Posted by jimjamesjames 6 years, 6 months ago
    ".......“In our era of warring ideologies, in a time of battle for man’s mind, this question demands attention. What is mass delusion? How does it arise? What can we do to combat it? "

    I was going to suggest, again, get a copy of "The True Believer," 1951, Eric Hoffer. But, if you are not familiar with the work, spend some time here

    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Eric_Ho...

    Lots of answers to the questions posed in the article.
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    • Posted by Dobrien 6 years, 6 months ago
      Thanks trejim.

      It's disconcerting to realize that businessmen, generals, soldiers, men of action are less corrupted by power than intellectuals... You take a conventional man of action, and he's satisfied if you obey. But not the intellectual. He doesn't want you just to obey. He wants you to get down on your knees and praise the one who makes you love what you hate and hate what you love. In other words, whenever the intellectuals are in power, there's soul-raping going on.
      Eric Hoffer will be on the book list.
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      • Posted by jimjamesjames 6 years, 6 months ago
        Having been in academia for years ( 11 years to get my BA in Econ, 3 years to get my Masters in Ed, 3 years to get my Ph.D. in Education -- total time for all, 25 years), I noticed a long time ago there was a mild antipathy for my work history: copper mining in Australia, construction truck driving, oil field truck driving and I don't know if it was envy or jealousy because the academics had done nothing in their lives but academics, very few had had a "real" job. Part of their arrogance came, IMHO, from recognizing that they were deficient in real world experiences and , thus, tried to elevate their status, in their minds, by being assholes.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 6 years, 6 months ago
    Mass Delusion is not new. If I wanted to work that hard (I don't) I think I could point out the delusions going back in recorded history to the very beginning. I know that what I perceive to be the truth is often not the truth. Often, close to it or almost the truth but not quite there. People manipulating the truth, and people manipulating the people who manipulate the truth until there is no truth to be found, but only those claiming the truth convincingly enough to fool even the wisest of us. But the very worst are those "creating" the truth. Creating things that never happened in order to satisfy an agenda. Soon the truth lies at the bottom of so many layers of untruths that it becomes too difficult to dig down and find it. After a while a complete falsehood becomes accepted as the truth. No proof needed -- it's obvious isn't it?
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    • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
      We saw that back on my Orwell post, he was there and the lamestream news reported falsehoods.

      But to your point...mass delusion goes waaaaaay back, in the way back machine, to the Tower of Babylon...not to mention, going even further back...Oh about 200K years, with the fallen idiots.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 6 years, 6 months ago
        From justifying natural phenomena to Gods, to asking favors from ghosts, to denying scientific facts, delusion ruled for most of the history of mankind.
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        • Posted by Dobrien 6 years, 6 months ago
          Isn't that exploration of the truth , an urge that a conscious objective human pursues from dawn to dusk or from birth to death. History is useful to those who desire to progress . That is why the controled public education system doesn't teach history. Progressives today act as sand in a gas tank of a mid century muscle car. Regulating and throttling innovation with crony capitalism and eviro czars .
          The deluded power hungry leaders who will sacrifice lives for a spring rain shower(Mayan) or sacrifice the individual in deep state weapons bazaars.
          Now with instant news via the net and billions of connected human receptors a well planned collectivist mind manipulation is under way.
          The mainstream media , the education system,
          the entertainment industry all push the altruism
          that Ayn Rand warned of. Truth is the enemy of socialists and an early casualty. Free speech is under attack in this Uncivil war.
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          • Posted by Herb7734 6 years, 6 months ago
            Every new truth, it seems, had to be fought for in order to be accepted. But be happy that the teeny minority of inventors and scientists persevered to bring us to a place where innovation is not only expected, but looked forward to. One of the things to watch is when new ideas get frowned upon. We accept new science, but we have a problem. It is now moving so fast that it is outstripping our ability to keep up with it. Moderation and sane use of science is diminishing and people stare at iPhones like zombies. Now there's a topic to explore.
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            • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
              Here is an oldie but baddy on the War on the human mind. Hint, one's only defense so far is "Awareness".
              https://ssi.armywarcollege.edu/pubs/p...

              Solntsev also examined the problem of "information noise," which creates a dense shield between a person and external reality. This noise may manifest itself in the form of signals, messages, images, or other items of information. The main target of this noise would be the consciousness of a person or a group of people. Behavior modification could be one objective of information noise; another could be to upset an individual's mental capacity to such an extent as to prevent reaction to any stimulus. Solntsev concludes that all levels of a person's psyche (subconscious, conscious, and "superconscious") are potential targets for destabilization.

              According to Solntsev, one computer virus capable of affecting a person's psyche is Russian Virus 666. It manifests itself in every 25th frame of a visual display, where it produces a combination of colors that allegedly put computer operators into a trance. The subconscious perception of the new pattern eventually results in arrhythmia of the heart. Other Russian computer specialists, not just Solntsev, talk openly about this "25th frame effect" and its ability to subtly manage a computer user's perceptions. The purpose of this technique is to inject a thought into the viewer's subconscious. It may remind some of the subliminal advertising controversy in the United States in the late 1950s.
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  • Posted by Dobrien 6 years, 6 months ago
    Meanwhile, the Left has been employing social psychology and depth psychology on the masses for decades. President Obama’s campaign staff was filled with social psychologists. In this context, those who believe conservatives can subsist on reason and logic alone are kidding themselves. It’s no wonder GOP leaders are caving on so many principles, and being absorbed so easily into the Left’s machine.
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    • Posted by $ Stormi 6 years, 6 months ago
      The awful thing is, they are employing these Russian type psychologies in public schools, usually with parents unaware, or told teachers know best! GOP leaders are caving for one reason, they are feeding at the trough of big cash. Just look at the Clinton/Bush diversion supposedly of cash to drug warehouses, after their TV commercials together to get people to donate to the hurricane relief a few years back. No principles, just greed. Clinton wanted school to change to the current group think, and he did it. The Bush family have an equally sordid record. I think the FBI has become so corrupt, they need to fire most of them, they are running the show. I agree with OUCarl, I see cover up in Vegas also.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 6 years, 6 months ago
    We live in an era of mass delusion because few people are actually interested in finding the truth. It can be blamed on laziness to a large degree - especially intellectual laziness. What is most disappointing is the displayed apathy and even hostility shown by those to truth when it is shown to them. This second is particularly dangerous to any who endorse freedom.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 6 years, 6 months ago
    Inappropriate acts?
    Like all the vulgar tweets that celebrities think are acceptable?
    Like the vulgar language being used in Star Trek Discovery as if it is humor?
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    • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
      And a WHOLE bunch more! like Twerking, beheading, mass shooting, mowing people down, criminals blaming the innocent, safe spaces, calling out "Racism" when the one shouting is the racist?, child sex slaves, pedophilia, homosexuality, sneaking into a country illegally, molesting men and women to get your way, making up bull crap against one's opponent, killing domesticated animals, throwing rocks at cars on the hyway, burning business cause your pissed, disrespecting the flag cause you just can't behave and get arrested, making men into women and women into men, lying about history...oh, and to the point, causing massive delusion in society.

      I'm absolutely sure I missed a bunch more!
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      • Posted by $ gharkness 6 years, 6 months ago
        Yes! The newest is this ridiculous claim that there is a public health crisis over opioids *caused by the legitimate prescribing of opioid medicines for people who actually are in pain.**

        It's like they are completely ignoring the ACTUAL problem, which is people who are illegally obtaining these drugs and using them without actual need.

        This is only going to make it harder for people who have a legitimate need. Note: it's now time to hoard.

        I've noticed that just in the past couple of weeks, the flat statement - as though it were actual fact - that there is an opioid crisis caused by legitimate prescriptions has become a FREQUENT flat-out statement on my local NPR station. It's like they are wanting to brainwash us....oh wait....
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        • Posted by CaptainKirk 6 years, 6 months ago
          There is an ENTIRE side to the argument that the addictiveness of the opiods was DOWNPLAYED, and the prescriptions went up.
          Then the "now addicted" are converted to illegal drug users to get their fix.
          As a Migraine Sufferer, I know how debilitating pain can be. And for $2 to fix it...

          Plus, the pain is worse, after treating it, and then stopping.

          Now, I took codeine in 1990s and it worked so well, it scared me to never take it again!

          So, some amount is this.

          But I think this reflects a different reality. A sickness in people whereby they are just "Sick and Tired", and I believe many of the deaths are suicides of sorts.

          Honestly, review their last 3-5 years. Mostly middle aged men. Australia has that as their fastest growing suicide groups.

          Drugs are hard to want when life is good. But they cover up a lot of problems when life is not!
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          • Posted by $ Abaco 6 years, 6 months ago
            I had a run-in with Vicodin when I had a bad injury in my 20s. They were prescribed with zero warning. This was a long time ago. I remember getting off them and what a horrible experience it was. Frankly, I think opioids have simply been mismanaged by an industry that has long been allowed to mismanage itself - the medical industry. What we are seeing now is the result. I know several people who have been on opioids for years. They are certainly hooked - they just don't realize it yet. When this newfound mission of the government to limit access kicks on for these people - lord help them. There will be some real suffering.
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            • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
              I think the drug addict companies should pay the price and get these people off all prescription drugs...then, do business honestly, doing no harm or it's "to the mood alice" with them.
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              • Posted by $ Abaco 6 years, 6 months ago
                Instead, I suspect they pay for trips to the Bahamas for doctors who push their product. That's what healthcare is, to a large part - a business for profit where products and services are peddled to an uneducated populace. (not that there's anything wrong with that model....) Haha...
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                • Posted by CaptainKirk 6 years, 6 months ago
                  Read the story about Royal Raymond Rife. His invention, and how the AMA sued him, destroyed him, for not letting them buy into his product. And, recently, scientists acknowledged the pleomorphism (a concept he was ridiculed for) is a real thing...
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          • Posted by $ gharkness 6 years, 6 months ago
            Interesting thoughts. I certainly don't have the "only" truth on this, but I just don't see illegal users stopping...only those who wouldn't break the law anyway to get what they previously got with a Rx. They'll be presented with ineffective solutions - perhaps even choose to do without and suffer through the pain. While in the meantime, the illegal users will go their merry way. Honestly, this isn't the first time the government has tried to stop drug use. I don't ever seeing it as being effective.
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            • Posted by CaptainKirk 6 years, 6 months ago
              I am torn on government stopping drug usage. I go both ways. Either declare a TRUE war, and openly put out poisoned versions of the drugs, whereby only users die. (But advertise this). I am okay with this, as long as it is openly advertised.
              Or leave it alone. Get out of the Business in its entirety. No FDA, no nothing. Let people do what they want. FDA drugs still cause more deaths every year!
              But the long term effects of a drugged up populace are devastating.
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          • Posted by $ jdg 6 years, 6 months ago
            I don't buy a word of it. The state has no business making doctors afraid to take a pain patient's word and give him the relief he needs. Drugs are largely not marketed at all, so to say they are being marketed deceptively doesn't pass the giggle test.

            The real problem here is the law requiring a doctor's approval for drugs. Obeying your doctor's advice should be voluntary. They work for you, you don't have any duty to obey them.
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            • Posted by CaptainKirk 6 years, 6 months ago
              You made my point. Government involvement at all is part of the problem.

              But if you don't think Doctors are being marketed to... Hang out in your doctors office for an entire day. I have friends who used to be Drug Reps. I have also had to wait 4+hrs in a waiting room to be squeezed in... I Can tell you first hand that there are a LOT of people marketing to the doctors. Taking them to dinner, and encouraging them to prescribe certain drugs, and "share" with them the benefits of opiods, and other drugs while glossing over (or not mentioning) the side-effects.

              BTW, one of the reasons I DESPISE a mandate for health insurance is simply because I would NEVER FOLLOW a doctors advice for MANY ailments. While they are great for Dx (description), I do not trust the Rx (prescription) because of the money and dishonesty...

              For example, when they say: 50% reduction in heart attacks, and only 10% risk of diabetes. In a 2,000 person study, that is 100 more people getting diabetes, and only a reduction of 1 or 2 people in getting a heart attack. Why, exactly, in a HEAVILY CONTROLLED world are they allowed to report the numbers in such a misleading way? (because they bought the law writers).
              The MOST important #s to me: How many people benefit PER 100 (0.1% in the above example) for those taking the medicine. So, you find out, you are 100 times more likely to have a nasty side-effect, than to feel the positive effect of a drug. Seems like THAT would drive our decisions better. And yet it is basically WITHHELD.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 5 months ago
          "It's like they are completely ignoring the ACTUAL problem [with opiods], which is people who are illegally obtaining these drugs and using them without actual need."
          They also ignore the extent to which prohibition contributes to the problem. People adopted more potent (volumetrically) opiods to avoid law enforcement. This causes more ODs and more addiction. They do not compare the current level of "crisis" with how it would be if gov't got out of it altogether and let people treated it as a medical, personal, spiritual problem. It's hard to say, but I suspect if gov't stopped all the policing, imprisonment, foreign interdiction, education/propaganda, and so on, the problem would be no worse, maybe even better. If my suspicion is right, we're spending all this money and giving up rights for nothing.
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          • Posted by $ gharkness 6 years, 5 months ago
            Seems to me it's just an extension - but WHAT an extension - of the war on drugs. You know how far the war on drugs has gotten us, I assume. We're going backward!
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            • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 5 months ago
              "You know how far the war on drugs has gotten us "
              Prohibition of any drugs started with the prohibition of alcohol. But only alcohol prohibition was rescinded, despite it being equally dangerous as other drugs. The "war" on drugs started around 1970, and it goes about as well as any "war" on your own citizens goes. I think it's equal to anti-gun laws in destroying freedom in subtle ways. It's not that people would have used guns or drugs to fight tyranny, but prohibition promotes the idea of citizens as children. It promotes the question "why does anyone need [a dangerous thing]?" "Explain why it should be legal?" instead of "explain why gov't should try to control people who are into it."

              I heard a news story the other day about an EPA regulation the Obama administration enacted on the last day of his presidency. I voted for President Obama and supported more environmental protection, so I was ready to support it. It was a law banning a solvent sold in hardware stores with a label warning users you need to use it in a ventilated space. It is safe if used as directed, but the EPA person being interviewed said anything a consumer can have should be absolutely safe. Damn. I couldn't disagree more. I think that attitude is related to gun control and drug prohibition.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 6 years, 6 months ago
    President Trump shouting down reporters in the press room as "fake news" comes to mind. The delusional support here for his excesses is another example.

    However, it is also an error within the original article cited that times of mass delusion lead to totalitarianism. It is hard to show any cause and effect, especially because the primary popular work in the field Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds by Charles Mackay cited examples from times of intellectual freedom. The iconic Tulip Craze occurred during the Northern Renaissance. I have a similar book, Humbugs of New York: being a Remonstrance against Popular Delusions by David Meredith Reese, M.D., 1838. (My copy is a reprint.) The good doctor exposed animal magnetism, phrenology, and homeopathia, as well as "ultra-temperance", "ultra-abolitionism*, "ultra-protestantism" and "ultra-sectarianism." And I point out that all of that took place at time that we would consider a golden age in our republic.

    Millenarianism is a delusion shared by left and right.
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    • Posted by mccannon01 6 years, 6 months ago
      "President Trump shouting down reporters in the press room as "fake news" comes to mind." I thought the same thing only from a different view point from what you allude. I viewed Trump's action as the little boy pointing at the Emperor and with a simple display of honesty and intestinal fortitude declared the deluded fool on parade was really naked.
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      • Posted by $ Abaco 6 years, 6 months ago
        Yeah. CNN, unfortunately, is fake news. A lot of mainstream providers are. I get no glee in saying that. Sad state of affairs.

        Reminds me of my very first lesson in the media. It came from my high school head football coach, many decades ago, who instructed us to never, ever talk to the media. Seemed radical back then. I've stuck to it ever since and have seen many examples of people really harmed by faulty reporting.
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        • Posted by mccannon01 6 years, 6 months ago
          "I get no glee in saying that. Sad state of affairs." Truly well said. I am a strong believer that a free press is necessary to maintain a free republic. But what happens when the press is corrupted? Even worse, willingly self-corrupted.
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      • Posted by $ allosaur 6 years, 6 months ago
        Yes, my saying these things yet again, "Mr. Bad Hair Day" and "the flawed bull in a china shop who I voted for" is indeed the little boy who points out the paraded on proud display indoctrinated and assimulated naked delusions of the loopy left.
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    • Posted by rbroberg 6 years, 6 months ago
      Does this suggest the left and right share a common mistaken premise?
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 6 months ago
        " the left and right share a common mistaken premise?"
        I wonder what the "left" and "right" really are. I'd like to think that most people who do not get paid to write about or talk about specific things just want the truth.

        Among people writing about test equipment, people are in the Tektronix or Rohde & Schwarz camps, but users just want a way to get visual representation of changing electrical signals. They win when the equipment helps them solve their problems, not when a particular vendor wins.

        I have done paid writing for test equipment, so I don't enjoy talking about it as an avocation as much. I have never done paid writing or anything for gov't, so I just want gov't to work--- actually to do very little but do it efficiently. It seems like people who do paid writing about gov't forget that their readers want a good outcome and do not care if the people paying the writer win or lose.
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        • Posted by mccannon01 6 years, 6 months ago
          "I wonder what the "left" and "right" really are." I have to go along with you on that one, CG! The definitions seem to be rather fluid depending on who's doing the writing and the context in which the terms are found. Shooting from the hip, I believe the terms originally referred to what side of the British Parliament aisle a delegate sat. But nowadays, who knows for sure. One explanation given to me many years ago was the "left" were communists and the "right" were fascists and the rest of us were somewhere in the middle. Cough cough, really? As in freedom is somehow a Venn Diagram intersection of Stalin and Hitler? I don't think so! Yep, "I wonder what the "left" and "right" really are."
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          • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
            Ideally, we could think of it as Entropy. 0 entropy and max entropy,

            The extreme left has always represented Max Entropy in various forms...including fascism, progressivism and even white supremacisism.
            Whereas the the extreme right has always represented 0 entropy or No government control at all...max freedom.

            The Country, the Federal Republic, was designed to be slightly right of center...just enough entropy to keep things running smoothly.

            As for what they say and what they actually represent,.,. is really up for grabs today; so really, we are left with the question: What do They believe they mean and are they being factually honest.
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            • Posted by mccannon01 6 years, 6 months ago
              Thanks, OUC. I like that definition the best, if one must use a left/right graphic.

              Just as you point out, the confusion comes in as described in your last paragraph with the all important question.
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        • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
          Good points.
          I 'try' to right about the truths of what is happening on many scales from a verifiable historical sense.

          Left to me was always about unions and max government control and the Right was about less government control and more autonomy for the individual but over the past 100 years since the progressive era the lines between them has gotten blurred.
          That lack of a stark division was the intention of the left from inception...it's a shame the masses didn't listen to those, like Rand, that tried to warn us.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 6 months ago
            " more autonomy for the individual"
            Yes. In my lifetime I see no major force for this, unfortunately. It seems like we accept gov't control as a fact of life.
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            • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
              Only begrudgingly like shackles around one's ankles as punishment for what others did or didn't do.
              Government control has grown because we never had a consensus in the population to limit it as the constitution was designed to do; so now we suffer the consequences of the inaction of each subsequent generation.
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      • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 6 years, 6 months ago
        The problem is that "left"and "right" are not defined in terms of essentials. It is why some libertarians say that they are "socially liberal and fiscally conservative." So, yes, the broad "left' and "right" share some delusions. The left is afraid of global warming, as we know. The right wing analog is an "economic" (or perhaps political) millennium in the style of Atlas Shrugged that devolves down to the myth of Anthem.. A friend of mine who is a global warmer - and nonetheless extremely intelligent - said that even when he can get a conservative to accept the facts of global warming, their response is to want more guns and a hideout in the mountains.

        In Kim Stanley Robinson's 2312 NYC is five floors under water, but civilization as we know and love it continues from the 6th floor on up...
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        • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
          That's funny. He rightfully knows the left will freak and burn down everything...creating more carbon!..laughing.
          But it's hard to believe a conservative would except the warming nonsense without relying upon his own observations, maybe he's under the delusional spell.

          I asked a warming carbon counter the other day what happens to green plant life in the winter or extended colder climates and he rightfully said, it goes dormant. I said correct, so what do you suppose happens to all that carbon that is usually used by those plants during the day time....and he looked at me strangely...then sheepishly replied...Oh yea, never thought of that.
          He is the only one so far that got it first try. Then I told him to look up Grand Solar Minimums and the Maunder Minimum.
          We will see where he lands.
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          • Posted by maxxal22 6 years, 6 months ago
            I am not too sure about global warming myself, it could be, it couldn't. I can't tell from the data, as this sort of thing is a long term process and the data collection hasn't started that long ago
            What i do believe in is trying to find more environment-friendly ways of doing things like industry, regardless of climate change. I was in the Hong Kong area one day when the smog was rather bad (wind came blowing from the mainland). I know that that can't be good for your health, especially areas that are worse off like Beijing and a lot of cities in India
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            • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
              Correct and most of that problem came from left leaning cronyism, coercion, and regulations. They should have pointed out the problem honestly, made suggestions and let the free market solve the problem.

              But the key factor here is that environment has no effect upon climate cycles, the upper atmosphere nor short term weather.
              what happens in the troposphere generally stays in the troposphere.

              Putting all or most of the temperature reporting stations in the hottest spots in the cities only proves that cities are a problem but when it's all averaged out, we have had no effect upon earth other than polluting the water and the troposphere.
              Polluting the water is directly related to bureaucratic environ[mental]ism using fluoride, too much chlorine and other chemicals that kill the good stuff in the water and doing nothing to the really bad stuff.

              See: http://suspicious0bservers.org and ADAPT2030-youtube for a more accurate/honest view of what's goin on.
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              • Posted by maxxal22 6 years, 6 months ago
                Adding stuff like chlorine and fluoride to the water is another thing i don't get. I live in the Netherlands where we don't have anything in the water. The only thing done to our water is cleaning and in some provinces the removal of excess calciumhydroxide.
                Hearing that tap water in the United States has fluorine/chlorine fazes me. I found it strange to taste water with chlorine in Disneyland Hong Kong a couple of months ago, it just didn't feel right to me
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                • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
                  And right it shouldn't. I used to use a very small amount in the water tank of my boat just to kill the bacteria that grows in hot weather but it wasn't enough to taste it or remain in the body. I could of easily used a small portion of colloidal silver or a very small amount of hydrogen peroxide for treating stagnant water storage.

                  I like that you treat the excess calcium in the water. It ages us, causes blockages and other harms to the body. Mankind was not meant to consume "ROCK". We get our calcium from plants.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 6 months ago
          "It is why some libertarians say that they are "socially liberal and fiscally conservative.""
          It seems like this idea is so popular it's become a cliche. In the show 30 Rock, someone asks the protagonists what politics she follows. She says "fiscally liberal, socially conservative," in an extremely perfunctory way that suggests it was such a trite platitude that she didn't even notice she had said it backwards.

          It I'm right and this cliche goes beyond my little bubble, I wonder why we don't see any mainstream candidates offering fiscal conservatism. My guess is that we only want it in the way we want to eat right, exercise, and always get enough time to for sleep and recreation. We want to balance the budget but cutting waste, without touching social security, military, medical assistance, scientific research, grants that benefit us, or raising taxes.

          But the fact that it's a cliche gives me some hope.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 6 months ago
    The article begins saying civilization rests on an objective reality that can be discerned through reason by humankind. It then degenerates into epithets about "social justice warriors" and a "delusional totalitarian intelligentsia". He then says the people who he's calling these names are responsible for rejection of objective reality. This name-calling without identifying any actual claims seems like a clear example of the delusion and rejection of reason he talks about in the first part of the article.
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    • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
      The name calling, as you put it, is to identify whom we are talking about. Most of us know who they are, know what that means and what pervades those idiotologies and they are quite the opposite of reasoned rational observational reality.

      Just think of the "name calling" or the ideological consequences as an acronym...it saves paper and trees...laughing hysterically.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 6 months ago
        "just think of the "name calling" or the ideological consequences as an acronym"
        It's possible that they're just words I don't know. There must be a website that decodes phrases like this: delusional totalitarian intelligentsia, otherkin hate, suffragettes (in modern times), ace erasure. I think I'm getting old; I prefer the old-school words. Whenever I hear about "social justice warriors" I imagine the sweet old ladies on the church social justice committee turning warlike. When I read "totalitarian intelligentsia", I thought of the Soviet Union. "Ace erasure" is my joking catchall for things that are annoying. I know what it really means, but I don't really get why it's a word.
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        • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
          I like, "Ace Erasure" might be a character that goes around eliminating value creation or proficiency of some actions. The Adventures of Ace Erasure.

          If your having a tough time with social justice warriors, I'd suggest viewing episode 7 of the Orvill on Fox TV...you can see the episodes on the internet...I kind of binged on them yesterday. Not sure I like the series, kind of dumb at times and not funny but that episode would give you a proper picture of SJW's in action.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 6 months ago
            "the Orville"
            I watched the first episode, and I've been meaning to watch the rest.

            They should come up with another name for those. Those old ladies at church took it first. But they're not warriors. Maybe they're "social justice stewards" or something, and I'm a social justice "supporter" if I make my pledge contributions and send my kids to RE to learn about social justice.
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            • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
              If we took the phrase to mean one has the, Right to be judged and treated fairly, like all phrases progressive, it sounds good, but it is not. Such is the case here. It's rather something quite perverse.

              SJW's are the one's that fear Free Speech, reasoned fact based observations and accountability for their own actions and enforced thought policing upon others.. They are, no matter how good SJW sounds...the results of delusion and information noise.

              I'd sooner, one be judged by the content of one's character and yes, be judged fairly; not to mention, Judged fairly in a court of law by a jury of one's peers.
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