ASp3 Themes

Posted by Hiraghm 12 years, 4 months ago to The Gulch: General
56 comments | Share | Best of... | Flag

I don't regard the Atlas Shrugged movie project as an attempt to release a piece of entertainment. I regard it as a propaganda campaign. (remember, propaganda can be true).

As such, I think some themes need to be emphasized that were glossed over a bit in the first two movies, either because the dialog was cut, or was delivered too briefly.

Obviously ASp3 will deal with Dagny's time in the Gulch. As Galt is showing her around, he could once again reiterate why he left the 20th Century Motor Company.
But I think it's important to show how life in the Gulch differs from the outside world. The class-less-ness. (such as a successful banker running a hog farm). Also, a clarification of the oath might help. Without a context, the oath can easily be taken as a declaration of selfishness. I think Dagny put it best in ASp2; "I won't be a slave; and I won't be a slave driver". That's the oath, IMO, in a nutshell. I swear upon my life not to use people, nor to let people use me.

A minor nit; as things run down, cell service will become spotty in the outside world. Clothes will become shabbier, food more scarce.

I think another important thing to make sure makes it into the 3rd movie is how railroad shipments are being manipulated based upon political considerations, not actual needs or financial considerations.

In "Go Tell the Spartans", there's a scene with a staged riot. The story explains how the rioters attempt to manipulate the media by giving themselves razor cuts and provoking the milice and then cowering in front of the cameras when the milice try to drive them back.

I think something similar might be useful during the "riot" at the Rearden factory. The schism between his actual workers and the imported rioters would be important, too, IMO.

I think the whole of Project X could be dealt with briefly, providing more time for more important topics. It might even be eliminated, except for references in the narrative.
Likewise, I hope any porn scenes are left out of the 3rd movie. They serve no purpose.
In the olden days, in ASp1, they would have shown Dagny and Hank go into the same bedroom together, and either the light would go out, or the door close, and then it would be the next morning and they were having breakfast. This saves precious seconds from a story already crushed for time, and allows the imagination to work on the details of their sexual exploits (for those minds that would care).
Likewise, the entire scene after the Taggart wedding could be cut. It's irrelevant. They could cut right to the scene where Lillian confronts Hank. The fact that he was with Dagny the night before could be easily inferred from him walking in in the am, Lillian asking her questions and saying, "You have her all over you".
Again, precious seconds saved, narrative tightened, and modern immature idiots are not pandered-to, something of which I approve.

I don't need to tell anyone that Galt's speech will have to be carefully edited. It's going to have to be modified to fit within the movie schedule, yet still hit all of the important points. I think it can be done, because much of his speech can be made redundant.


All Comments


Previous comments...   You are currently on page 2.
  • Posted by khalling 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Dagny and Galt coming together finally needs to be explosive and intense with great music. It will be in part, an expression of acknowledgement of all she has built and he was witness to. The John Galt Line is real, tangible, not just some business.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think Rand was right. Peoples values of themselves is mirrored in the people the choose. I do think often people are tricked and don't really know the motives/values of the other until way later. Like Hank. Lillian wasn't the person he thought she was.

    KH, I just wrote this interaction between Frisco and Hank for a friend to read. I have no clue why he tells me about the dysfunctional women he keeps trying to get into relationship to marriage stuff. He is a avid christian and says he thinks God is putting him these situations as a ministry. I don't agree and tell him so. I don't want to hear any of it so I typed the whole exchange out and will give it to him to think on, or not.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by khalling 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Sex is one of the most important aspects of man’s life and, therefore, must never be approached lightly or casually. A sexual relationship is proper only on the ground of the highest values one can find in a human being. Sex must not be anything other than a response to values. And that is why I consider promiscuity immoral. Not because sex is evil, but because sex is too good and too important . . . .

    [Sex should] involve . . . a very serious relationship. Whether that relationship should or should not become a marriage is a question which depends on the circumstances and the context of the two persons’ lives. I consider marriage a very important institution, but it is important when and if two people have found the person with whom they wish to spend the rest of their lives—a question of which no man or woman can be automatically certain. When one is certain that one’s choice is final, then marriage is, of course, a desirable state. But this does not mean that any relationship based on less than total certainty is improper. I think the question of an affair or a marriage depends on the knowledge and the position of the two persons involved and should be left up to them. Either is moral, provided only that both parties take the relationship seriously and that it is based on values." AR, Playboy Interview
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by khalling 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    lucky, ok, it's more of a if you're going to do it, get it right kind of thing. I get that.
    Franco Zefferelli's "Romeo and Juliet" popped into my head when you challenged to name a movie where the love scene was well done and so therefore the proscenium unbroken. For The New Intellectual-
    "The man who despises himself tries to gain self-esteem from sexual adventures—which can’t be done, because sex is not the cause, but an effect and an expression of a man’s sense of his own value . . .

    The men who think that wealth comes from material resources and has no intellectual root or meaning, are the men who think—for the same reason—that sex is a physical capacity which functions independently of one’s mind, choice or code of values. They think that your body creates a desire and makes a choice for you just about in some such way as if iron ore transformed itself into railroad rails of its own volition. Love is blind, they say; sex is impervious to reason and mocks the power of all philosophers. But, in fact, a man’s sexual choice is the result and the sum of his fundamental convictions. Tell me what a man finds sexually attractive and I will tell you his entire philosophy of life. Show me the woman he sleeps with and I will tell you his valuation of himself. No matter what corruption he’s taught about the virtue of selflessness, sex is the most profoundly selfish of all acts, an act which he cannot perform for any motive but his own enjoyment—just try to think of performing it in a spirit of selfless charity!—an act which is not possible in self-abasement, only in self-exaltation, only in the confidence of being desired and being worthy of desire. It is an act that forces him to stand naked in spirit, as well as in body, and to accept his real ego as his standard of value. He will always be attracted to the woman who reflects his deepest vision of himself, the woman whose surrender permits him to experience—or to fake—a sense of self-esteem . . . . Love is our response to our highest values—and can be nothing else."

    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by khalling 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    lol. it isn't my cup of tea either, but walter donway is a wonderful writer. and a longtime Objectivist. I think you would really enjoy his prose. I'm currently reading a collection of poems, "How Glad I Am For Man Tonight." They are wonderful.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by richrobinson 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I keep thinking if it is done right it could add to the film. Dagny and Hank have sex because they like, respect and need each other. Dagny falls in love with John Galt. There is a difference. If done right the love scenes could help make this distinction.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by Lucky 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    kh says- ' what's wrong with you people and sex' kh is right again, what's wrong is that I am not in it, otherwise, make it worth watching, to me it is the closeness, anticipation, mutuality, the feeling, thinking, the tension.. I cannot at the moment name a film where that has been achieved, the visuals interfere with the imagination. I concede that it can be done but it would slow the action too much. If the above are missing then it becomes much as what Hiraghm describes.
    Well it could be that kh thinks I am just too sensitive, delicate and refined. Right again. and if I may be excused for being serious, the Rand theory of sex sounds good to me, it is a bit more subtle tho', I'd like to find the quotes.
    A thought, the characters are physical as well as intellectual, they have been fully occupied with work, then, the unplanned moment of being aware that an ideal partner, in all the meaning of the word, is within reach, years of diversion and restraint are blown off. The characters are passionate, not indulgent, not even sensuous. In the book the Dagny-Hank scene is a triumph like the arrival of the first John Galt line train. In the film it did not work. Rand has some real sleazy sex scenes in the book- Jim-Lillian. Anyone can show that. Unless you do it right, with the time it takes, close the door.
    My conclusion- as done so far it has not appealed to me, repeat for part III as per market judgement.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There's nothing wrong with us.
    I have no problem with the love scenes; there are lots of love scenes in the movie... as in scenes that show one character's love for another. That's not the same as sex scenes.

    Rand was wrong. Let me repeat that for the sycophants... RAND WAS WRONG.

    Sex is not an important expression of values. Sex is an addiction which exists so that animals will procreate. period. The romantic ties associated with sex exist among mammals to ensure that the young reach breeding age.

    I don't want to see characters picking their noses, I don't want to see them urinating, defecating, washing their testicles, or having sex. None of this furthers the story, unless the story is about giving the reader an erection or sick stomach.

    Nobody's asking that they leave the love out of the story. I'm requesting that the explicit sex scenes be omitted so that the time could be better spent furthering a story that does not have enough time to tell as it is.

    Once Hank and Dagny closed the bedroom door in Wyatt's house, the fact that they were romantically involved and sexually attracted was established. Move on. Use those precious seconds to tell more about the 20th century motor company, for example.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree. I think the scene where Dagny shoots the indecisive guard (and making it clear that he died because there was no on to tell him what to do, like maybe his radio wasn't working) could stay in, with her action enabling Ragnar's men to infiltrate the compound.

    Maybe use Rearden and his plane to get them in/out. Francisco could be part of the assault force, having demonstrated in earlier scenes that he's deadly with a gun and has no compunction about putting holes in people.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think there should be just as many, and just as graphic, scenes of the primary characters defecating in the streets of the Gulch as there are sex scenes between the primary characters.

    Part of the problem with modern America is this addiction to sex. Sex is no more important than masturbation or waste elimination in the telling of a story (unless the story is about someone who masturbates while defecating, which is probably a story only true weirdos would want to read).

    Showing adulterous intercourse isn't important, since the movies already establish the romantic interest and emotional connection between Dagny and every hump she meets.
    All the sex scenes do is emphasize the idea that all the story is about is Dagny looking for the most alpha male to fertilize her eggs.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Pardon my vulgarity, but fucking is not love. There have already been many scenes where Francisco, Dagny, and Hank were completely dressed, but the love (and respect) was obvious. I don't need to see Bowler grunting on top of Schilling to get that they're romantically attracted to one another.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It might be interesting to have Project X been developed under the cover of being a solution to globular warming
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    As I said, it could be treated as the story of the 20th century motor company (which was infinitely more important) was handled.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by LiveHeart 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Giggle *high five* I edit a decent amount of erotica, and I looove getting some good BDSM books to work on.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by UncommonSense 12 years, 4 months ago
    Great review & opinion. However, I noted you're not into pandering...that's leaves you out of any running for political office. lol.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by khalling 12 years, 4 months ago
    I don't know what's wrong with you people and sex. I notice those of you complaining about the lust/love scenes are men!
    Rand made it clear that sex is an important expression of values. To leave it out, would not be true to the story.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by LionelHutz 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Good point. Someone else also pointed out earlier this year how in the midst of the economy coming apart, the government still saw fit to prioritize weapons development.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by khalling 12 years, 4 months ago
    I think that the whole JG torture/rescue part of AS was the poorly written compared to the rest of the novel. First of all, why wasn't it Ragnar and his team that led the rescue? They had the skill and had been doing it? If I was writing the script I would change it so that Ragnar was in charge of the rescue-and his team was a highly trained, Delta Force kind of thing. not some ragtag group. It doesn't help how bright or accomplished you are, it's more about skill and training.
    Plus, I love Ragnar, and he's gotten short shrift so far in the movies.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 12 years, 4 months ago
    Interesting points. I thing something about Project X needs to be included because that why the science institute wanted the Rearden Metal. Yeah, also to control it's distribution. It shows just how easy it is for bad things to fall into the wrong hands and the consequences. It doesn't have to be much, but the Taggart Bridge being destroyed is the final blow to transcontinental transportation and cuts the country in half. Eddie in the desert at the end should be included too. Standing looking down the deserted track, the train light shinning off into nothing.
    Reply | Permalink  

  • Comment hidden. Undo