China follows France and Britain to phase out gas and diesel powered vehicles.

Posted by  $  Dobrien 1 week, 5 days ago to Economics
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Funny France and Britain beat out the top commies in first ignoring free market principles .
Shows where the west is heading.
SOURCE URL: https://phys.org/news/2017-09-china-sales-gasoline-cars.html


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  • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 1 week, 4 days ago
    That'll go over big when the lights go out!...for 10 years or More!!!
    It's not a question of IF but WHEN.
    Just this week we had an X8 that just barely braised us and missed a following X9.

    Had that happened in the earth facing position...we would gone back to the stone age for quite a while.
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    • Posted by  $  Susanne 1 week, 4 days ago
      The X9.8 was facing us. When the thing hit us (11 AM last Friday) it took out my cellphone connection... I was wondering what the pops and snarls were, then it hit me... when I looked at the clock and remembered when the CME was scheduled to hit.

      I was surprised the extent of it wasn't greater, given all the hype and doom predictions... but then again, maybe I shouldn't have been... (Especially since I get solar activity feeds from the Space Weather Bureau in Australia)

      What happens, then, if we have a legitimate Carrington event... the Chicken Little media will have already said "The sky is falling" for days, but they ALWAYS say "the sky is falling"...

      When the sky REALLY falls... how will we know it's not just more media hype, until we experience it firsthand?
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  • Posted by jetmec 1 week, 4 days ago
    What!!! no cars for us petrol heads in the UK!!! I'm glad I left then, who wants do a normal eight hour drive in eight days? Not me!!!!
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  • Posted by  $  DrZarkov99 1 week, 4 days ago
    The driver for the UK, China, India, France, Iran is urban pollution, not climate change. London, Paris, Beijing, Mumbai, New Delhi, Tehran all have pollution far worse than Los Angeles. The Indian cities are really bad, having relied on two cycle engine vehicles like the ubiquitous three wheel tuk tuks for decades.

    I've been working with a U.S. electric vehicle developer, http://www.zelectricvehicle.com/ who's developed a variety of two wheel electrics, and is now offering a three wheel vehicle that could replace the Indian tuk tuk. Lots of information on that site. Most of ZEV's U.S. customers buy the electric vehicles for the ease of maintenance compared to their ICE-powered counterparts.

    Electric vehicles have a long way to go, given the best battery energy density is pathetic compared to gasoline or diesel fuels. However, as a means of helping reduce urban pollution they have a legitimate market.

    There are other ways to reduce pollution, with other alternate fuels, like compressed natural gas (CNG), liquid propane, dimethyl ether (diesel replacement), ammonia (NH3, no carbon, so no CO2), butanol (heavy alcohol that replaces gasoline and diesel), but none are serious replacements yet. Butanol is the only alternative that can be used without significant modifications to existing engines and fuel tanks, as it doesn't need pressurization and has the best energy profile (near that of gasoline).
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  • Posted by  $  Stormi 1 week, 4 days ago
    This is once again, about total government control, be it China, Britain, or the US. They know that climate change is not the issue they want us to believe, or as the UN puts it, they don't care if it is true or not, as long as people believe it is so they can control them! They are fully aware that putting everyone in electrics, when adequate electric supplies are not there, will give them control over who may go where and when. When the car charges over load the electric supply, all power will go down, which is exactly the goal of teh power hungry. Remember, Britain was the first to give us Outcome Based Education, which they later deemed a "brain drain", and which Clinton went for full force during his administration. Now we have drained brain students in both countries!
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  • Posted by ohiocrossroads 1 week, 4 days ago
    I'm not worried about the future of the internal combustion engine in cars. Why haven't people learned that when politicians announce that they are going to accomplish some lofty-sounding goal in the next 10, 20, or 30 years, that goal is never achieved? Donald Trump shot an arrow through the heart of those goals that have grown out of the global warming political hoax when he pulled the USA out of the Paris Climate Accords.
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  • Posted by Lucky 1 week, 4 days ago
    France and Britain mean what they say and what they say is economic suicide.
    China however, seeing what France and Britain will be using (or trying to use) intends to make it and sell it.
    At the moment Chinese built vehicles are generally cheap and horrid, this will not last. improvement across the board is a fact, you can argue if it fervor from the top or increasing market freedom.

    Yes as FFA etc observe, China, whatever they say, have a massive number of coal powered generators under construction or planned. These are high efficiency low-emissions, super-critical designs. Some may even use Chinese invented tech, some are very large. They can use low quality coal and will produce electricity at low cost. The scale of use of these will be the basis of a big export market.
    China does have solar generators, they produce little electricity but are tools for promoting sales of solar plant as well as plant that actually produces.
    It is a clever political and industrial strategy, the only flaw is that Western Europe is on the path to impoverishment and will not be able to buy.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 1 week, 1 day ago
    I'm sorry guy's driving an electric car is a blast A few months ago I purchased a 2012 Nissan Leaf at 1/4 of the the original sticker price 9 out of ten rating on the battery pack. Actually, using the Leaf app and a OBDE pull-in module found that only one segment of the battery pack lost capacity. But driving back and forth to my new part-time job in the city I live in works out very well. Plus pulling ahead of all the IC cars from a stop light is fun. My wife and I still have an IC car for out of town travel. I have an extended warranty for the battery pack so when the time comes I can get the higher Kilowatt pack, Though I hope they find a replacement for the Lithium Ion Batteries. Maybe a cross between capacitors and composite battery,
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  • Posted by jdg 1 week, 4 days ago
    The last century of economic growth by countries shows a pattern which these planners seem to be completely clueless about.

    First a country is poor, and has very little pollution beyond the local level because nobody can afford a car or a modern home.

    Then, IF they adopt free market principles or at least a system where ordinary people can sometimes keep the fruits of their labor, the country becomes developed. Pollution becomes noticeable and maybe even pretty bad, but the law does nothing about it because common sense correctly tells everyone that modern industry and heated houses are more important (and save more lives!) than trying to solve air pollution by regulating them away.

    Finally, they become as wealthy as the US in 1900-29 or 1950-80, and they can afford to start doing something about pollution. Then air gets cleaner.

    And if they're really lucky, they make it through all these stages without ever letting "gimme-ists" get their hands on government power, which they will use to destroy everything and force us back to primitive existence if given half a chance.

    Give the Red Chinese local and regional government leadership some credit, because they seem to understand this pattern (if not all its causes) and are trying to keep growth going in spite of corruption. But try to teach this to people in the West and the Democrats will vilify you as Nazis or whatever lie about you they think they can sell today.
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 1 week, 4 days ago
    The thing that a lot of people forget is that for electricity to be available there must be a generator somewhere and for that generator to work it needs a source of energy. Where is that going to come from?
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    • Posted by  $  1 week, 4 days ago
      Thanks ProfChuck! Even put together, wind and photovoltaic solar are supplying less than 1 per cent of global energy demand. From the International Energy Agency’s 2016 Key Renewables Trends, we can see that wind provided 0.46 per cent of global energy consumption in 2014, and solar and tide combined provided 0.35 per cent. Remember this is total energy, not just electricity, which is less than a fifth of all final energy, the rest being the solid, gaseous, and liquid fuels that do the heavy lifting for heat, transport and industry.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 1 week, 4 days ago
    The fact that I hate the way China does it, this is a long time coming.Up until recently, electricity for vehicles has remained to a large extent undeveloped. If a real market incentive for electric cars showed up, then I would be willing to bet that a solution to the problems would be quickly forthcoming. Two things are needed. A power storage system that will allow you to go 300 to 400 miles. The power needs only minutes to be replenished.

    Once engineers saw the value of the internal combustion engine and developed ways to utilize it, as the old-timers would say, it was "Katy bar the door."
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    • Posted by  $  1 week, 4 days ago
      It is thought the phrase originates with the story of Catherine Douglas and her attempt to save the Scottish King James I. He was attacked by discontented subjects in Perth in 1437. The room he was in had a door with a missing locking bar. The story goes that Catherine Douglas tries to save him by barring the door with her arm. Her her arm was broken and the mob murdered the King. The 'lass that barred the door' - Catherine Douglas, was henceforth known as Catherine Barlass. The story, although in it is the full Sir Walter Scott romantic history style, is quite well documented from contemporary records and the descendants of Catherine Douglas still use the Barlass name.

      The event was commemorated in Dante Gabriel Rossetti's poem The King’s Tragedy, 1881. The full poem is 173 stanzas, but this selection shows the possible links with Katy bar the door:

      Then the Queen cried, "Catherine, keep the door,
      And I to this will suffice!"
      At her word I rose all dazed to my feet,
      And my heart was fire and ice.
      ...
      Like iron felt my arm, as through
      The staple I made it pass:-
      Alack! it was flesh and bone - no more! 570
      'Twas Catherine Douglas sprang to the door,
      But I fell back Kate Barlass.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 1 week, 4 days ago
        And here, I thought I was a collector of trivia.
        Great story, thugh. Years ago, when I objected to going to this or that party or soiree because they'd bore me, the BW said that I would not be bored. That she would stand me in a corner telling stories to myself facing the wall. This no longer works because I cannot stand for more than 5 minutes at a time.
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  • Posted by  $  blarman 1 week, 4 days ago
    One other thing to keep in mind, this is also a great tactic to limit the population's mobility. The typical electric car has 1/3 the range of a typical gas-powered vehicle. Mobility means better market conditions for labor. It's one of the reasons you'll never get me to buy an all-electric vehicle - aside from the sheer hypocrisy in the energy sourcing!
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 1 week, 5 days ago
    I haven't studied it, but I don't understand the reason for phasing out gas and diesel in favor of electric. Is it just that's a case of burning fossil fuels that the average person is personally involved with? It seems like it would be more efficient to replace power plants with sources that do not emit greenhouse gases. My intuition says even if they have to step it up to high voltage to send it from solar farms in AZ and wind farms in the Dakotas, that's still less loss than putting it into batteries in local cars. It seems like cars would be most efficient if they had diesel engines with batteries to sink and source power for braking and accelerating, i.e. a "hybrid". If they just worked out the cost to others per unit of fuel for each type of fuel, the market would determine the most efficient approach. Someone might thing of something new. Just saying no gas or diesel cars at some point in the future strikes me as away to put off dealing with global warming into some time in the future.
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    • Posted by  $  1 week, 4 days ago
      Well CG , I'm not to sure what Solar farms in Az or wind farms in the Dakota's have to do with it.
      I don't believe in the global warming lies,
      The air pollution is atrocious in Bejing and most metro areas in China have serious smog issues. Reducing those emissions would have positive health implications but for a decade China built coal fired power plants ,at one point 1 a week.
      If those plants are charging the car batteries they better get some scrubbers for the smoke stacks.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 1 week, 4 days ago
        "I'm not to sure what Solar farms in Az or wind farms in the Dakota's have to do with it."
        Those are places where you can harvest energy without contributing to global warming. For the car user it may be satisfying to move power from a carbon-neutral source, over a wire, into batteries, and then into moving the car. But batteries are inefficient and have their own environmental costs. It's outside my area, but my intuition says it would do more to reduce global warming just to reduce burning fuel in sites with long-hanging-fruit renewable sources and to consume energy near those sources. I think the focus on car engines is emotional.
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        • Posted by ewv 1 week, 4 days ago
          All of it is emotional. Nothing we do will change the climate significantly; the viros don't want us affecting the environment at all. They hate industry. They hate cars as efficient, individualist personal transportation. Of course energy for electric cars has to be produced, transported and stored by some means. They especially hate 'fossil fuel', no matter how efficient or clean; they want it wiped out. The only sources of energy they condone are impractical on a scale large enough to be useful for civilized, industrial society. Hoist the jib on your hybrid solar-wind electric toy car.
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          • -2
            Posted by CircuitGuy 1 week, 4 days ago
            I'm not talking about the hardcore ignorant who don't accept human effects on climate. I'm saying not wanting a specific kJ of energy released in one's own life to be from sources that contributed to global warming is not logical. If there a market for activities that incur a cost on others, the market would find an efficient solution.
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            • Posted by ewv 1 week, 3 days ago
              Rejecting the climate hysteria mantra is not "hardcore ignorant". There are True Believers as well as opponents who don't understand science, and some opponents project fallacious 'silver bullet' arguments that are wrong, but there are good grounds to reject the mantra, both scientific and as a logical rejection of something promoted arbitrarily and by authoritary with no attempt at explanation.
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              • Posted by CircuitGuy 1 week, 3 days ago
                "the climate hysteria mantra"
                If we're just talking about straw men, then it's easy. It's hard to take the undesirable facts and respond to them.
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                • Posted by ewv 1 week, 2 days ago
                  The authoritarian, politically correct obsequiousness to the mantra of the climate hysteria movement is all over the media, education and government. It's not a strawman.
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                  • Posted by CircuitGuy 1 week, 2 days ago
                    Authoritarianism, politics, fawning, and hysteria do not affect reality.

                    It's similar to fallacy fallacy, which is that finding a fallacy in an argument makes its conclusion false.
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                    • Posted by ewv 1 week, 1 day ago
                      Authoritarianism, politics, fawning, and hysteria are logical grounds requiring rejection an assertion as cognitively worthless, as if it had never been said, not accepting it as a possibility in reality. Rejecting it is not "hardcore ignorant".
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                      • Posted by CircuitGuy 1 week, 1 day ago
                        "Authoritarianism, politics, fawning, and hysteria are logical grounds requiring rejection an assertion"
                        They are grounds for rejecting an argument, not an assertion. If I make up a crazy argument for a claim, it does not say anything about the claim's truth.
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                        • Posted by ewv 1 week ago
                          Arbitrary assertions and nonsensical arguments have the same cognitive status. Zero. You know no more about reality than you did before the nonsense was spewed. Before it or after, not knowing is not evidence for anything, including possibility of anything in the name of imagined "truth"..
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    • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 1 week, 4 days ago
      It's gona be a loooooong time before we cycle back to a warm climate and just as today...it won't be your fault.
      It's a cycle cilly.
      Dob and I have studied this carefully and impartially.
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      • Posted by  $  allosaur 1 week, 4 days ago
        What? You two ain't assimilated into the acceptable PC group think that's so in mainstream media vogue?
        Oh, the horror of the hurricanes and the earthquakes you will cause!
        Trump is now being blamed for such things for a reason!
        I'll be back to scold you some more after I go figure what that reason is.
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        • Posted by  $  1 week, 4 days ago
          Trumps bad hair and his rejecting Obamas economy killer agreement with the UN parasitical scumbags is at fault . Look at what all the co2 has done to Denmark.
          Although he said it was too early to predict whether September might deliver the summer weather Danes are so desperately yearning for, it isn't terribly likely. In short, Larsen said 2017 would go down as a year without a summer.

          “Without a long-lasting summer anyway. We managed to get one summer day in July, but that is hardly enough to make us look back at this summer and remember it as particularly good,” he said.

          A ‘summer day' is defined as any day in which temperatures top 25C (77F) at least somewhere in Denmark. It was not until the second to last day of the month that the threshold was passed, allowing the country to very narrowly miss out on the distinction of the first summer-less July since 1979.
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          • Posted by  $  allosaur 1 week, 3 days ago
            Oh, well, the libs dumped "global warming" in exchange for "climate change" for about the same reason I've always preferred multiple choice for test questions.
            Ya never knows how dem bones gonna roll.
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            • Posted by  $  1 week, 3 days ago
              Just like they dump on any cause they get behind
              Education, Race relations, Equality.
              Dump, Dumper, Dumpest.
              Sounds like a tragic comedy.
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              • Posted by  $  allosaur 1 week, 3 days ago
                Their gig is pretty much always revolves about the social injustice of someone being mistreated.
                Everyone who is better off is to socialism sacrifice to level the playing field and to spread the wealth around and to do this on a global basis without any dirty fossil fuels. .
                Oh, all are to sacrifice except for the oh so special more than equal elite betters we'll need to run all our united Venezuelas for us--or else!
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