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San Francisco proposes a tax on robots

Posted by  $  nickursis 2 months, 2 weeks ago to Government
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Kommunist Kalifornia, where the State will rule and ensure you comply. 15.00 an hour minimum wage? Get a robot. Get a robot, pay a tax (probably equivalent to 16.00 and hour just to make sure you hire a person.Leave the state and drive it bankrupt. Idiots.
SOURCE URL: https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/growing-dilemma-automated-jobs-meet-040548447.html


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  • Posted by CarrieAnneJD 2 months, 2 weeks ago
    This is so ridiculous. Their argument is LITERALLY that technology puts people out of workand that the displaced workers have no capacity or ability to do anything else to sustain themselves. The former has been happening since the wheel made transportation easier, the container made hauling water easier, and fire made getting enough calories to survive easier. The latter is saying people are too dumb to contribute anything of value to society, and they should not be expected to do so.

    UGH.
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    • Posted by term2 2 months, 2 weeks ago
      I have to admit they are right in one sense. If people want to continue doing what they are doing and not learn new skills, they WILL be displaced by the robots. One can look no further than Detroit, where old school auto workers refused to accept that offshore workers would work for less (robots work for less too...), and look what happened.
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    • Posted by DrZarkov99 2 months, 2 weeks ago
      A very pallative, comforting statement, but computers, software development, and artificial intelligence are driving the technology development much faster than prior industrialization processes. The functions of adapting and job creation take time, so it may indicate a lag in the process due to limitations in human abilities.

      The new technologies present a system that can eventually maintain itself and evolve automatically as the need arises. This is a first in human development, and the very real question will be whether classic human adaptive and creative skills will be able to keep up.
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      • Posted by  $  2 months, 1 week ago
        That is why the education system would need to adapt and provide low cost, comprehensive education, and testing for aptitude. The military does a good aptitude test that tells you what skills you are most suited to learn. However, being that the educational system was hijacked by social engineers, I am sure they will just teach them better ways to protest.
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  • Posted by  $  WilliamShipley 2 months, 2 weeks ago
    It will be interesting to see how they define Robot for taxing purposes -- does that include a smart phone app?

    People will work around the definition. My digital camera can record video (like all of them) but is limited to 29 minutes 59 seconds in one video -- because the EU considers a recorder that can record 30 minutes or more in a different tax bracket.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 2 months, 2 weeks ago
      I agree. It will turn into a general tax on return on equity. There's nothing special about a robot. It's just capital invested in equipment that provides goods and services.
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      • Posted by  $  2 months, 2 weeks ago
        They will have to fund their BLS, which is their ultimate aim, after all, no one with 2 brain cells to rub together (but a huge her of looter non producers who vote for them) would have raised the WHOLE STATES minimum wager to 15.00. A clear recipe for disaster.
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        • Posted by term2 2 months, 2 weeks ago
          Its a beautiful state which attract a lot of people. They are counting on that to keep tourism and residents there. All these things just raise the cost of goods and services higher in california than other places. They will keep increasing the cost of these things until there is backlash.
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          • Posted by  $  2 months, 1 week ago
            Or go bankrupt....
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            • Posted by term2 2 months, 1 week ago
              From what I hear about Hillary’s book, I agree calif would rather go bk than admit they were wrong. Just like the dems would rather see the USA crash and burn than let our current president have any success at saving it
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              • Posted by  $  2 months, 1 week ago
                Exactly so, they are grabbing the wheel of the Winnebago and taking it off the cliff while the wife is holding the Road Atlas to her face screaming "Left, Harry, Left"....End result, same.
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                • Posted by term2 2 months, 1 week ago
                  We should play close attention to Venezuela to see how things will go under socialism. It is rich with oil, but can’t get it out of the ground to support their socialism. The jig is up when the looters can’t find productive people with loot for them to take
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    • Posted by TheOldMan 2 months, 2 weeks ago
      My thought exactly. I wonder how many of the "oh-so-concerned" software crowd would react if automatic s/w products were put in to the "robot" category. For example, s/w that automatically orders new inventory displaces a person who could have manually counted existing stocks and placed new orders.
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      • Posted by DrZarkov99 2 months, 2 weeks ago
        The programmers haven't yet realized the distinct possibility that they will eventually be replaceable. Authoring software exists today, and is becoming more skilled. When the computers no longer need humans to upgrade software, that's when it will suddenly become a "crisis."
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  • Posted by  $  AJAshinoff 2 months, 1 week ago
    Saw this coming. With the push to raise wages to $15/hr and companies moving to automated systems in a variety of areas it made perfect sense that politicians would want to recoup lost revenue. Now they will tax any automaton, car, kiosk, drone, perhaps ATM which removes a taxpayer from the treasury to make up the loss. I'd speculate that this is the real reason behind the sudden insane push to $15.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 2 months, 1 week ago
      "Now they will tax any automaton, car, kiosk, drone, perhaps ATM"
      The list goes on and on. Voice recognition software used instead of a transcriptionist, spell/grammar check software, circuit board auto-routing software. The whole modern world is based on increasing productivity, i.e. getting more done with less work. A tax on automation is just shorthand for a tax on the entire economy.
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    • Posted by  $  2 months, 1 week ago
      Could very well be, AJ, I put no collusion as being too low for politicians.
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      • Posted by  $  AJAshinoff 2 months, 1 week ago
        The end result of the $15 push is unemployment which places those unskilled workers dependent on government assistance.Taxing robots isn't going to save jobs, they know this. Once on government assistance they will continue to vote for whoever gives them a more comfortable existence No matter how you look at this the left wins. It stinks of collusion and long term planning..
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        • Posted by  $  2 months, 1 week ago
          I have become a believer in the long range, long term conspiracy theory. In fact, a lot of people may have been persuaded that it doesn't not exist by those who do not want it to be know. There is way too much money, power and corruption today to discount it. The breaking of society into small special interest groups, the corruption of education, all talk to it.
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 2 months, 2 weeks ago
    It is likely that AI will progress to the point that robots will become self aware. Does this mean they can no longer be considered property? If they are considered to be true sapient beings who will pay the tax. This is just another example of politicians failing to think things through.
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    • Posted by  $  Temlakos 2 months, 2 weeks ago
      How would a self-aware machine behave? If it is self-aware, then it is no longer a robot. Robot means slave. So our self-aware humanoid (robotoid?) would then register to vote. How would they vote?

      It could go further than that. How about Mike the Computer in Heinlein's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress?
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      • Posted by DrZarkov99 2 months, 2 weeks ago
        We may have to create new terminology. As you point out, robot means slave, and android means an artificial biological entity. A self-aware electromechanical being is a unique concept worthy of a special designation. Any ideas?

        Of course the civil rights lawyers will love to tackle this issue. It will be an emancipation question of how do we decide when an artificial being should be granted equal status to a human. Will a human who terminates such a being be charged with homicide?
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        • Posted by  $  Temlakos 2 months, 2 weeks ago
          Writers of teleplays and novels have already treated those concepts. One episode each of the two Outer Limits television series, featured a robot brought to trial in a human court, charged with murder in the death of his creator. The Star Trek franchise has dealt repeatedly with the rights that attach to a self-aware automaton, or even a self-aware program generating a holographic avatar.
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  • Posted by  $  Snezzy 2 months, 2 weeks ago
    We've had robots displacing human workers ever since Strowger invented the electromechanical stepping switch for telephone exchanges. Before his time a phone operator had to connect every call. Long distance required several operators in several locations. Think of the tremendous amount of employment San Francisco could cause if they simply required all phone calls to be handled with the earlier manual-exchange technology.

    Here's the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telepho...

    When making a long-distance call it sometimes took hours for the connection to be established. You would ask the operator for service to the remote location, and she would call you back once the call was ready. During the time while you waited you could perhaps shine your shoes or do the laundry, running it through the wringer and then hanging it out to dry. You didn't waste that waiting time. Indeed, you could use it for better composing your thoughts, so that when the call finally was established, you didn't waste precious minutes deciding what to say.

    So let's tax robots of all types out of existence, and head straight to the abyss of full employment. We can ALL be telephone operators and horse handlers!
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    • Posted by term2 2 months, 2 weeks ago
      This reminds me of the laws that were passed in Atlas Shrugged saying you couldnt fire anyone or use fewer people no matter what. Ayn Rand was a true visionary who could see where collectivism has to wind up
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      • Posted by  $  2 months, 1 week ago
        I am waiting to start seeing those, Corps already have to notify the state in advance of layoffs, so we are very near, then AS will be VERY non fiction...
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        • Posted by term2 2 months, 1 week ago
          A tribute to the finality of A is A. Denying reality has predictable consequences, and Ayn Rand was very tuned in. Kudos to her. Amazing that the collectivists blind themselves to the predictable results of their philosophy. Millions in California, venezuela, and other places just stick to ideas that have been proven wrong so many times It’s disturbing
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          • Posted by  $  2 months, 1 week ago
            I think this sort of fits that:

            "It [now] seems to me that every time we manage to establish one freedom, they take another one away. Maybe two. And that seems to me characteristic of a society as it gets older, and more crowded, and higher taxes, and more laws. I would say that my position is not too far from that of Ayn Rand's; that I would like to see government reduced to no more than internal police and courts, external armed forces — with the other matters handled otherwise. I'm sick of the way government sticks its nose in everything, now."

            Heinlein
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    • Posted by TheOldMan 2 months, 2 weeks ago
      I recall making international calls (very, very rarely!). Same thing, you called the international operator, gave her (yes it was always a "her" so deal with it!) the country and number, and then you sat around for hours never daring to move away from the telephone. It helped to have several people involved so that you could hit the head or get something to eat.
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      • Posted by  $  Snezzy 2 months, 2 weeks ago
        They tried male phone operators early on, and they were invariably insufficiently polite to the customers. Women did the job far better.

        Today's woman might not be quite up to the task. Several years ago I held a door open for someone, and she scornfully said, "I can do that for myself!"

        To this day, though, the Southern Lady who is well brought up says, "Well, bless your soul!" where you and I would say, "You ghodddamm iddjjitt!"
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        • Posted by Herb7734 2 months, 2 weeks ago
          If you want to see courtesy, be handicapped. As I stagger along with my cane in one hand and a coffee to go in the other people hold the door for me every time.I always make it a point to look them in the eye and say a polite, "thank you."
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          • Posted by  $  Dobrien 2 months, 1 week ago
            One thing that is a missing ingrediate in today's society is the lack of courtesy and polite manners.
            As a preschool teacher my wife created a kindness pledge for the little minds. She also rotates the helper of the day and one of the things they do is remind who needs it to respect and listen to the teacher. At the very least 20 kids a year are exposed to proper behavior for a year or 2. A thousand mile trek starts with one step forward.
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            • Posted by Herb7734 2 months, 1 week ago
              Reminds me of a little trick Todd used to do when he started as a pre-schooler. When he did something naughty and was reprimanded, he did what we came to call his "ashamed" smile. Instead of crying or getting angry. He would scrunch up his face, look at the teacher/parent with a dimpled smile, full of wonder that he could have possibly ever done anything wrong. It didn't get him out of trouble, but it usually melted any anger to where the consequences were not nearly so severe. It was like saying, "Who me?"without speaking a word.
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            • Posted by  $  2 months, 1 week ago
              To quote the Master:

              “A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot.”
              Heinlein
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              • Posted by mccannon01 2 months, 1 week ago
                Not to mention rudeness, bad manners, and lack of consideration on an expressway at 65mph can be immediately fatal.
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                • Posted by  $  Dobrien 2 months, 1 week ago
                  Manners reduce conflict
                  Think about all the times you have been miffed at someone. Maybe while driving, shopping, or walking in a crowded place, catching public transport and so on. There is a good chance you were miffed because the person annoying you wasn’t using basic good manners. You may have even let out a huff or said something to them. Manners reduce the rub between people much like traffic lights reduce accidents at crossings.
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              • Posted by  $  Dobrien 2 months, 1 week ago
                Thanks Nickursis,
                Another one here "Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid excessive wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the untraveled, the naïve, the unsophisticated deplore these formalities as “empty” “meaningless,” or “dishonest,” and scorn to use them. No matter how “pure” their motives, they thereby throw sand into machinery that does not work too well at best. – Robert A Heinlein in Time Enough For Love
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  • Posted by wiggys 2 months, 2 weeks ago
    seems to me those in power in kali want to give the state back to the Mexicans as they are doing their best to drive sane people out of the state.
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    • Posted by  $  allosaur 2 months, 2 weeks ago
      Me dino with my dangerous mind just thought up this scenario~
      Kalifornia finally secedes from the USA.
      Immigrants (legal or illegal, who in Kal cares?) quickly stage a coup to join Mexico.
      Kalifornia asks the USA to save it from Mexico.
      The POTUS asks, "Who are you?"
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      • Posted by DrZarkov99 2 months, 2 weeks ago
        The reality is that no coup may be necessary, with the CA population "evolving" to majority non-caucasian/non-legal. The democratic process may just lead to the legislative body and left wing governor (Brown or an equally left wing successor) enthusiastically joining Mexico. The rest of us better be prepared for the wave of refugees.
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        • Posted by  $  allosaur 2 months, 2 weeks ago
          Having had my fun with my silly scenario, it took me about two seconds to conclude that your scenario is far more likely.
          Why should a dino be defensively uptight when right is might? Oorah!
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  • Posted by chad 2 months, 1 week ago
    What idiots. The woman who wants to implement a tax to protect jobs doesn't realize what impact this will have on her own life. There aren't many buggy whip makers now but thank goodness we have cars. While riding in a buggy one time for a short distance might seem like fun, using one to commute 50 miles to work every day would be impractical and annoying. If you have ever ridden in one they are rough riding, no A/C, no cd players, open to the weather, slow and you are subject to horse farts on occasion which might be funny once but not twice. Every time something new is invented it does require workers with new skills and no I do not need to pay for someone's free college to attain those skills. I was once asked by a communist girlfriend if I wasn't forced to pay for someone's school they might not go to school and invent something new that I would like to have and wouldn't that be terrible? I told her if I had to pay for his school he better be giving me his new product and not charge me for it. She didn't think that was fair either!
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  • Posted by NealS 2 months, 2 weeks ago
    Kalifornians need to all start taking advantage of all the benefits of their desired type of governmental rule. That's the only way to prove whether or not it will work. Kalifornians need to experience what's it's like in Venezuela these days. It's the only way they will ever understand. Hopefully enough of those that don't believe in the New Kalifornia will be able to get out fast enough to actually give the rest the opportunity to succeed in establishing what they think they want.
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