I dont think fat boy is stupid at all. He knows that if he nukes someone, that is the END of his regime and N Korea for the next 100 years while the radioactivity dies down. He is playing with us. Note that he DIDN"T send a missile over Guam. He knew that the accuracy isnt that good, and what would happen if it fell short and actually landed IN Guam by mistake. That would be taken as an act of war against the USA, and China already said they would stand idly by if the USA retaliated.

Certainly a better idea than anything else I have heard proposed.

The Chinese are bigger control freaks than even we are. They don't want him to be stronger but let Fat Boy annoy us so we will pay them to "off" him. Sooner or later they will do it anyway. The problem is that he could nuke someone first.

I've not read anything regarding Ayn Rand believing Russia was a paper tiger. Can you please provide a link? Thanks

I say that because the Chinese HAVENT throttled him in spite of his embarrassing the Chinese. They have said that they will not act against the US if N Korea attacks us first. If N Korea attacked S Korea, I think the Chinese would welcome that actually. As fat boy took over the wealth of S Korea, his power would grow and the power of the USA woudl diminish.

Why should anyone 'sweeten the pot' to encourage behavior that benefits another? The offer implies that someone on the other end will not have free choice in deciding if they want to deal with the rogue state. Bribes usually cost the smallest individual (citizen taxpayer) and benefits those with enough political clout to benefit themselves at this expense. This also encourages another criminal state (China) to benefit from a supposedly free country (USA) and encourages the use of more bribes to keep them in line. This kind of procedure always supports bad behavior in hopes that it won't become worse behavior and hoping that someone who is insane will respond to begging, bribing to keep them subdued. Sometimes the only way to proceed is if one person does something really bad stop them by whatever means is required to stop them. North Korea is badgering the international community because when his daddy did it the Clintons rewarded him. Don't appease them or try to control them through another coward or bully.

Even the NK military might see a China invasion as welcome, and we might see large scale defections. The food situation in NK is dire, with even the military being told to steal food to be ready to fight (I'm not sure who has the food they're supposed to appropriate, though).

The Chinese would not be shy about throttling Fat Boy. The international community should sanction his path to join his brother.

Now that China has tasted western style capitalism, they would be a better neighbor to S Korea than the current regime in N Korea

I think the example of a peacefully reunited Germany has some appeal that makes us want to see the same for Korea, but at this stage a more pacific, China-lite North Korea would be very acceptable to all concerned.

China isnt about to risk disturbing the trade with the USA, and therefore wouldnt be tempted to take rash action if we quietly nuclearized japan and south korea. After all, N Korea IS the creation of China in the first place, and they are responsible for the nuclear weapons in N Korea.. I agree that the MAD philosophy is the only real way to deal with nuclear weapons of such great destructive power.

One thing we should NOT do is give fat boy any more attention than his fouth world country deserves.

Theoretically a MAD doctrine should work regionally (seems to be working between India and Pakistan), but China is absolutely paranoid about the idea of a nuclear Japan. I'm not sure they wouldn't be ready to take drastic action if they thought Japan was going nuclear. South Korea is debating about asking the U.S. to return tactical nukes to their country, but that could trigger the little fat man to perform what he would consider a preemptive strike.

All that being said, China needs to be made very aware that North Korea may be leaving South Korea and Japan with no other choice but to adopt nuclear weapons. Just maybe that will be the tipping point to make them shut the NK asylum down.

It's becoming more apparent that China is not comfortable with conducting military action unless it has no other option. The recent potential conflict between India and China ended when it became apparent India was not going to be intimidated, and there was real danger of serious shooting. China decided it wasn't worth fighting over and backed down from building the offending mountain highway. China needs to realize that doing nothing about KJU may mean they will be drawn into an unwanted military conflict they want no part of.

Excellent thought. Reality is, the fat kid has to go. China must see that they are the answer to the problem and they will benefit greatly.

I applaud the inventive nature of this solution.

Reasons it could work:
1. China has been tethered to North Korea since the end of WW II and the Communist takeover. They were the backing of North Korea in the Korean War. Without their assistance in military hardware and ammunition, North Korea would never have attacked. They have continued to supply military assistance for 60+ years since, but that was under Kim Jong Un's grandfather and father, who were still tyrants but less spoiled. China is no doubt aware of Kim Jong Un's petulance and childishness as they have issued an incredibly rare rebuke to him. They may see this as a way to distance themselves from his reign.
2. By intervening to rein in North Korea, China actually garners good will with other nations.

Reasons it also may fail:
1. North Korea is a useful lapdog. People are less apt to think China a danger with rabid North Korea shooting missiles into the sea of Japan, even though militarily, economically, and territorially China is by far the bigger threat.
2. China actually gains from having someone to threaten the United States' superiority where they have some control but don't have to suffer much of the fallout if an actual war breaks out. The US controls the air and the sea, so the fighting would be restricted mainly to the Korean peninsula. Many critical parts to both North Korean and US weapons are manufactured in China - they can sell to both sides.

Maybe China gives up Taiwan, and we give up N Korea officially. Personally I dont know why we are even interested in N Korea. Its far away and kind of worthless in itself.

everything nk does with their weapons is for the sake of the middle east customers.
attack the usa is not going to happen. china shutting them down is not going to happen.
our government needs to have a problem to keep us citizens jacked up like they did for us after ww2 and the red menace. Russia as rand pointed out was and still is a paper tiger so is nk. so all we really have to be concerned with is when middle east looneys walk into us based shopping malls. then we will see how long if ever our government takes to do what has to be don to the middles east looneys.

Although China wants to control its neighbors, I think they are becoming embarrassed at fat boy's forays into nuclear territory and would love to end that. China has nuclear capabilities, but is quiet about it. Fat boy is looking too much for attention. China would love to take over Korea, but fat boy would NOT.

The problem would be to get fat boy to agree to this. It would mean the end of his power, and dictators dont seem to be happy with that idea.

China could play hardball and withdraw its oil and support. The offer for China to control N Korea (which as I remember was what THEY wanted in the 50's and which was what started the Korean war) would appeal to China, but probably NOT to fat boy. Tough road.

I don't think that the people of North Korea would object to this one bit. Oh, they would weep and wail and scream and cry in the street, to make sure that they are noticed as being on the "right side."

But as soon as power changed hands, they'd be thrilled. More than thrilled. Just glad to have a chance at being alive.

The importance of accepting and understand HISTORY cant be denied. And the leftists want to tear down statues so we can forget history- folly.

Fat boy would never go for that. They would have to kill him. He is a dictator and wants HIS power over anything else, including the nutrition of his "people".

If China withdrew its financial support from fat boy, his military would probably go after China or do something rash to the USA or South Korea.

I have an alternative idea. Let fat boy have his nuclear weapons that both he and China seem to want. But we arm south Korea and Japan with nuclear weapons, in "mutually assured destruction" form. It worked with Russia and the US- neither pushed the button for fear the retaliation would be unthinkable.

Then the USA stops whiining about N Korea having to give up its nuclear weapons (which its NEVER going to do). We issue one more statement and then pretty much ignore fat boy in the future. We tell him "If you rain nuclear weapons on the USA or one of our allies, we will obliterate your country and make it radioactive for the next 100 years and make sure that YOU are dead. So long as you dont fire at us, we wont fire at you and you can maintain your control over your people".

And that would be the end of fat boy controlling the media and getting attention.

You're right about the issue of area of influence/responsibility. The U.S. has had trouble accepting the concept, as we seem to have had a missionary drive to "free" the world and make every country completely independent. Often Soviet forays beyond their immediate neighbors were more in response to American actions than their own motivations.

Russia has always been paranoid about having what it perceives as not entirely friendly neighbors. Given the country's history of hundreds of invaders over the centuries, this is understandable. Likewise, China lost its sense of comfort with the opium wars and destructive invasion by other nations. We need to be aware of these concerns, and be willing to constrain the itch to "make things right." Our lack of understanding of an obstinate Middle East culture is part of what's gotten us into the longest war in our history there.

The Taiwan scenario, I think, is unlikely. Taiwan has invested quite a bit in the mother country, so destroying Taiwanese infrastructure would damage the Chinese economy. A Taiwan-China reconciliation may not be too far off, providing China is willing to loosen the human rights constraints that make Hong Kong an example of the downsides to being subject to China's rule.

The U.S. would be compelled to react to a Taiwan invasion very negatively, mainly by trade sanctions on China. In past years we might have supported Taiwan militarily, but I believe that era has passed.

You have a good point about keeping plans secret, which is probably why we haven't heard so much as a whisper of this strategy. Another complication is that Russia also has to be informed, since they too have a border with North Korea, and need to be prepared just in case a paranoid Kim Jong Un lashes out in all directions in response to a Chinese invasion.

South Korea is probably the biggest worry for spies and leaks, since they are the primary target of North Korea's espionage establishment. They still have to be informed, but if the notice is kept to only the top leadership leaks may be successfully avoided.

Good comments.

It seems to me that the Trump administration is trying to pursue this approach. The trick is to get China to do it for reasonable accommodations. There is a negotiation going on and power, territory, prestige and economic considerations are involved. China doesn't want a big mess in their backyard but if they can get more out of the deal they will accept reasonable risk.
There are only three countries that matter in the world, China, Russia and the United States. All the rest are allied with one of these or struggling to be noticed. Behind the scenes the big three need to determine who goes with who and accept responsibility for maintain order in their area of responsibility. It needs to be understood that if they threaten each other it is just words to scare the bit players. War is just a habit left over from Kings distracting the peasants from realizing that they were not rulers but big leaches and unnecessary. It was easier to have our potential revolutionaries knock off our cousins problem children than to create other means to controlling them when the deals they made with the clerics weren't totally effective.

This idea makes perfect sense to me, although my knowledge of the situation is superficial.
Pros:
- Anything's better than the North Korean current gov't.
- Maybe freed from the harsh controls, in a few years North Koreans would feel more kinship with South Korea and demand their same level of freedoms.
- It breaks the perceived benefit of having nuclear weapons that no one dare invade a nuclear-armed country.
Cons:
- Might China see it as a test run for Taiwan? They think they have a stronger case to invade Taiwan. OTOH, China' probably values stable foreign trade over Taiwan.
- Might it be hard to plan the attack without North Korean leadership getting wind of it, through spies or someone in the Chinese gov't who thinks the plan is too risky or thinks the result would not be favorable to China?
- Might expanding China's sphere of influence strengthen China's repressive gov't system?
- If North Korea succeed in detonating even one low-yield nuclear weapon anywhere (South Korea, China, against invading Chinese troops in North Korea, it would break the 70 year taboo against nuclear weapons. OTOH, that might happen anyway and not at a time of China's, South Korea's, or US's choosing.

So I think it make a lot of sense.