As retired military, I have to point out that our oath is to protect and defend the Constitution, not the government. The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) requires us to refuse to obey any orders that are in violation of the Constitution. Failure to do so can result in legal action against the followers of an unconstitutional order as well as the person who generates the order. People wanting a coup against President Trump seem to lack the understanding of how the military operates.

Things may get very interesting if an attempt at impeachment proceeds on questionable grounds. The President has the right to demand the SCOTUS make a ruling on the grounds for impeachment, and they could very well invalidate an impeachment if no "high crimes and misdemeanors" are discovered. The Republicans need to think this through very carefully, as siding with Democrats on shaky grounds could poison the government badly. There are a number of RINOs whom I suspect are already in risk of being defeated in the primaries, and further careless action could endanger others. The result could be a Republican party in name only, replaced largely by conservative populists (much like how the Democrats are being replaced by socialists).

I think what we are seeing from the democrat party right now is desperation. The RINOs are and will always be the "stupid party". They just need to be voted out as they get decent primary challengers if we cannot get term limits. It may very well get worse before it gets better. However, if Trump can stay strong as he has, I'm positive it's going to get better.

One last thing about Trump. He will never be perfect. He will probably never be anything but what he is as of now. However, he doesn't need ANY of this. He must love this country very much to put up with the crap he has. If he stays and fights it out to the end and runs again, he SHOULD have the undying gratitude of every one of us who loves this country.

The Submarine service also had an issue in the first 2 years of the war, with commanders operating as they had been trained and told to, getting poor results and relieved after 2 patrols. It was the junior officers who rose to fill the command billets in 43, 44 that were successful, along with giving them warheads that worked in 43.

Ok, I am not saying you are wrong, I was just clarifying. I do see your argument, although I would say I have met many Queeg types in my time in the navy and out, and yes, they generally are allowed to go on,as long as they do not make the org look bad. I don't know if Wouk was trying to make a point that leaders are not always screwed up from the start but can become so by how they are supported in specific cases. Your point of earning respect is also very true, had Queeg not come from the pre-war Navy, where you bred commanders who were tyrants, because there not a lot of people wanting to be in the Navy in the late 30's, due to the low pay, heavy politics and bureaucracy, maybe it might have a different outcome.

I did not miss it. I happen to disagree with it. Although I admit not reading the book and judging only by the movie (I should read it; Wouk is excellent!), Queeg in that meeting appeared to me as a manipulating liar. If he really wanted to come clean, HE had an opportunity to do that, not ask others to fall for the lies again. People like Queeg should never be in any management or leadership positions; that a failure of the higher management. I suspect that in some part Wouk's fictional account is based on Smith vs Smith controversy in the same time frame and location - the Marine Smith vs Army Smith, a story well known at the time. Maybe its just my projection? In any case, I never agreed with Barney's position that we must respect and support our leaders - the respect and support must be earned, not assigned due to rank. I worked for the DoD until a year ago and I did not hide the fact that I did not support Obama or his cronies. I could not respect or support what I considered to be moral feces. Eventually, I quit. During the war, Queeg's subordinates could not. Similar "leaders" in Vietnam (and I'm sure in other wars) received a bullet in the back. I don't know why Wouk took that position through Barney.

OK, I was not trying to propose he WAS Queeg, but that this situation fits that scenario and he fills the role of Queeg, remember Queeg had been serving in the Atlantic for 2 years before hand, Trump is coming from a position of absolute authority answering only to a board and shareholders if he fails, and he didin't. I don't even know how much stock he is responsible too.

Ah, you miss the part of the movie where Queeg showed up, and had he had some careful guidance from his wardroom, as well as support during the infamous wardroom meeting, it may have been different. That was Barney's point. If you assume your leader is hopelessly dysfunctional, you WILL make it so. Herman Wouk made it an excellent lesson for leadership on both sides, the Leader and the Lead.

As you wish, but I believe you are discounting the extreme angst on the left, and in the media, and the wimp factor of those who control the house. If they supported him, they would not be throwing him under the bus every other day, either to the media or with votes like McCain s.

That seems pretty much the spot we are in, but it is still a lot of it being because the Republicrats have not supported him or stood up for him. They have run like the CEO's because they cannot deal with the idea of not being politically correct, as gauged by the lamestream media. Media pressure will remove any CEO quickly.

Doc, I agree that he does fit the model of a Hindenburg, but remember, Hitler waited for Hindenburg to die in office. That said, However the cureent model of support was what I was referring to, so it could be look at like this: Had Trump recieved the support of his party, completely, when he went into office, and they made the effort to gather him up and say, OK, you may be in charge but you need us, so you need to observe some basic rules, like no tweeting. Then make it clear that he cannot succeed without them, and he worked with them to control all his outliers like McCain, could he have been successful? A united front against the media may have broken them, if enough Republicrats went out and made them look like the fools they are, by citing facts and not fantasy. But they went with the media, and even jumped on the "You didn't show sorry enough" for the riot BS, and he is pretty much alone. That is my comparison point. It seems pretty clear this is an engineered coup in slow motion, and they will find a justifiable reason to remove him, and the military will not act, unless they can prove the Constitution is violated, and a lot of them may stay sidelined, if the SCOTUS says it's ok, as that then makes it a very fuxxy Constitutional issue. The military will stick to their oaths I think, and above lawful orders are the protect and defend clause, only.

I hope you are right. It just seems so hopeless. Replaced Obamacare is just medicaid for everyone, which will destroy whats left of our health system. Already some of the best healthcare delivery places (like Mayo Clinic) are not making appointments for new patients on government insurance because they cant afford to give good service at the reimbursements offered by a bankrupt system.

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Very true!!!!!!!!!!!!

The "replace" Obamacare idea has and is coming from the Dem and RINO elitists who want to keep control over our very lives. The 47%, yes, are bought and paid for. However, not all are stupid and the fascism on display since November is even turning them against the democrat party. My 20-80 split is probably overly optimistic. However, I don't think it's anywhere close to 50-50.

I voted for him and support him to do what he said he would do (the only one who even comes close to fulfilling his promises !). I would argue that its much closer to 50-50 though. Romney was right when he said 47% just want what the others provide. Since then, its more like 50%. Look at the necessity to "replace" obamacare and not just repeal it. Too many people want 'free' healthcare paid by taxpayers

Actually, I believe the split is closer to 20% Marxist vs. 80% America loving regular people. The democrat party is losing on every front and their fund raising is in the tank. Trump is exposing the evil of the left. Even if it is unwitting on his part, he is doing a GREAT service to this country right now for that alone.

No US President has ever been successfully impeached. In 1974 Richard Nixon resigned before he could be formally removed. Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton were both impeached but neither was convicted of the charges filed against them.

Although some have suggested Mr Trump will not serve his full four year term he is still unlikely to be impeached as both Houses of Congress, which have to vote to remove him, are controlled by Republicans.

The 25th Amendment was originally adopted in 1967 and establishes the procedure where by the Vice-President succeeds the President if he or she is incapacitated, dies in office or is impeached.

My advice is 'do not hold your breath on this snowflake fallacy' ;)

I would support a splitting apart of the USA at this point. I am DONE with the leftists trying to control my life. " Deplorables" UNITE. If half of the people are socialists and the other half "deplorables", its time to split the country into two sections.

have you any idea of the uproar that will take place in the country if they try to do that. I just don't see it, ever though he is damned if he does or damned if he doesn't act. I just do not think he will submit to them.

They tried to keep him from being elected. When that didnt work, they rioted in disgust hoping to show he was illegimate. When that didnt work, they started on this russian collusion thing. Thats proceeding with the expense of tens of millions of OUR dollars, but has not turned up any witches to date. Then they tried to impeach him for some sort of emotional instability. That seems to have died down too. Now they want to show he is a racist for a few words about what two groups fought over in Charlottesville. Meanwhile, we still have Obamacare, High taxes, and a lot of other disasters left over from previous socialist administrations which they wont let Trump fix.

I thought Trump was our LAST chance to at least slow down the relentless advance of socialist and the eventual conversion of the USA into another Venezuela. If Trump is tossed out, I am ready to disavow the USA.

Why do you think Queeg was railroaded? I do not happen to agree with that lawyerly speech at the end proclaiming that one's leadership must be supported regardless of how rotten it is.

Is Trump Queeg? No.

Trump is not Queeg. He's Hindenberg, heading the U.S. version of the Weimar republic. We don't have the impossible burden of Germany's WW I reparations to contend with, but we do have the exploding entitlements baggage and a national debt we will never be able to retire. There are warning signs of an auto loan bubble, a student loan bubble, and a new housing bubble, any one of which could trigger a huge adjustment in the markets. We already have rioting in the streets, egged on by a Marxist media, so an economic collapse may put us in an unrecoverable situation.

Soros and Obama are gleefully supporting the destruction, hoping to gain control when things fall apart. However, history never seems to make things easy, and we may see an unexpected player step up to take the reins if Trump falls.

If Trump is perceived as having been forced from office on false pretenses, we could be facing the second Civil war. Many of his supporters, including those in the military and law enforcement would likely refuse to acknowledge a phony impeachment. Once that gets started, look for the Russians and Chinese to decide which contingent they support, eager to gain control over the richest nation on the planet.

Agreed. I don't see how the Dems and the Rhinos can possibly sway the people who are fed up with them. They elected Trump, in large part, because they don't trust career politicians.