How Many Russians Do You Hate?

Posted by straightlinelogic 7 years, 11 months ago to Politics
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If you couldn’t continue hating someone who hurt you, why would you hate any one of billions of people you’ll never know? It’s foolish, a waste of time and energy. Most people pursue their own opportunities, living and letting live...especially people they don’t know. It’s an important element of a well-adjusted personality. Wars and conflict get all the press, but the unrecognized history of the world is actually a more salutary chronicle. Through the generations, people in large measure have lived peaceably together, even people of different races, nationalities, and creeds. Peace, cooperation, and mutually beneficial exchange, not war and conflict, account for humanity’s journey from cave to skyscraper.

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  • Posted by BeenThere 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have a determination to live..........happily. As Galt said, "Get the hell out of my way!" BT
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That could be, although I would think that there would have been conflicts somewhere in the world pretty much all the time. I wouldnt say that we in the USA live in "harmony". Most of us just grin and bear what we dont like, and the country is split right down the middle and on the verge of civil war with the producers and the moochers taking sides
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  • Posted by mgarbizo1 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Progressives prefer emotions over reasoning. We must identify them for what they are, irrational beings. Your choice what to do from there.
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  • Posted by mgarbizo1 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Only 2 areas that I would ask for you to cite sources for:
    1. Saudi Arabia is Sunni, and Israel aligns with the Sunnis
    A lot of conspiracies around 9/11 theorize that Israel played an active role in the 9/11 attacks to help certain US gov't authorities further their plans in the Middle East. I find this interesting if I can come to the same conclusions that you make in this statement.
    2. Osama bin Laden, a devout Wahhabist (Sunni sect) hated secular Hussein.
    The second one asserting that Hussein was a secular having ruled over a predominately Shiite sect of people in Iraq since the 80's. Something's wrong there because I would think civil war would have been going on during Hussein entire reign in Iraq. Great information and detail by the way. I agree with your sympathy for Vietnam vets, but mainly because they were mistreated when they came back home. I still give my respect to any man willing to fight for his country's freedoms even if the government has been corrupted by certain individuals to make war with another country. You are still correct in that peace, cooperation, and mutually beneficial exchange is the way that man should strive to live his life. You chose star wars, I'll pick Dr. Strange for a nice quote of the day: We can never lose our demons, only learn to live above them.
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  • Posted by 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    mgarbizo1
    You ask me to discuss your points and I will. As I discuss, I will make assertions that I have investigated and I believe are amply supported. However, I will not cite source material until the end of this reply, for ease of reading.

    First off, I must admit that the paragraph from my article you cite would have been better if, when I talked about stoking hate, I had said hate not just against another country and its citizens, but against its leaders as well.

    Sadamm Hussein had been an ally of the US in the 1980s when he made war against Iran, a US enemy since 1979 after the Iranian Revolution deposed the US-installed puppet, Shah Mohammad Rezā Pahlavi. The US provided arms, including, it has been alleged, the gas which Hussein used on his own people.

    George W. Bush, his team of neoconservatives, and the US's putative allies Saudi Arabia and Israel, were bent on remaking the Middle East. Long before 9/11, the neconservatives had envisioned widespread regime change, especially in the Shiite nations of Iran, Iraq, and Syria (Saudi Arabia is Sunni, and Israel aligns with the Sunnis).

    After 9/11, the US moved first against Afghanistan. This was perhaps justifiable, because that was where Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda were then located. The US invasion of Iraq was justified on two grounds: that Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and that he had aided al Qaeda's 9/11 attack. The first was later discredited by both events (no such weapons were found) and subsequent revelations that the intelligence had been cooked. The intelligence community had given Bush and Dick Cheney not the truth, but what they wanted to hear.

    The second argument has been discredited as well. No credible evidence has been found to link Hussein to 9/11. Other assertions have been made that Iran was involved. Both assertions are on their face implausible. Osama bin Laden, a devout Wahhabist (Sunni sect) hated secular Hussein, and it is doubtful that Shiite Iran would have aided Sunni al Qaeda. The only state actor for which the evidence indicates involvement would be that of Saudi Arabia. Most of the 9/11 coconspirators were from Saudi Arabia, and there is evidence that the they were aided by wealthy and powerful patrons within Saudi Arabia, some part of the government, some not.

    Hussein was no threat to the US and the Bush administration knew it. However, a massive campaign to demonize Hussein, to make Americans hate him, (admittedly he was no angel but he had managed to hold Iraq together), was undertaken by the US government and mainstream media. The US invaded and deposed Hussein, and he was eventually executed.

    Fourteen years later, the US is still in Iraq and Syria as well. Anyone who paid attention to the Iraq war recognizes that the US is using the same tactics against Syria's Bashar al-Assad that it did against Hussein: cooked intelligence, unproven accusations of atrocities, arming and otherwise supporting local guerrillas of dubious pedigrees and tactics, and other regime change machinations. In Syria, the US has actually armed and supported al Qaeda and its offshoots, ISIS and the al Nusra front. So we have been allied with the al Qaeda, the terrorist group we originally went after in 2002 in Afghanistan, and we're still in Afghanistan to boot!

    Since World War II, the US has not conclusively won any of its military engagements. We've been in Afghanistan 15 years and Iraq 14. We're going on 6 in Syria. US-inspired wars have created millions of casualties and refugees, fomented chaos in the Middle East and Northern Africa, and stoked the terrorism they were ostensibly meant to stop. All without making anyone in the US one bit safer.

    I have far more sympathy for Vietnam vets than I do for those who have fought in the Middle East. The Vietnam vets arguably didn't know better when they went off to war, and some of them were drafted. While kids nowadays get sucked into the military with the same slogans and jingoism kids have always got sucked into the military, the US's shameful record of interventionism is now clear and the armed forces are all volunteer. Anyone who is going to volunteer to kill or risk being killed for the US government at least owes it to themselves to investigate what that government has been doing the last 60 years.

    I guess I went over the limit and got cut off. I will give you my supporting material in another post.
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  • Posted by mgarbizo1 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    BTW, your post is still a great argument as to why we should not hate or be led to hate others for any reasons, I just disagree that we can exist as we would like (freedoms and all) without a government protecting our freedoms and therefore requiring certain powers that we acknowledge and give to it.
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  • Posted by mgarbizo1 7 years, 11 months ago
    SLL, let me start off by saying that I am a fan of your writings that you have posted here on the gulch, but I'd like to discuss with you some things on this recent post of yours:
    "Hate is stoked to overcome the natural desires for peace and prosperity and aversion to war. As a leader, you don’t sit the citizens down one-by-one and calmly explain to them why they should hate whomever you’ve chosen to fight. Rather, you make a frenzied appeal to a crowd, and let crowd psychology work its woeful wonders, with ostracism and worse for the few rejecting the appeal."

    You mentioned the Iraqi war as an example of this hate to go to war, but I believe we weren't stoked by hate at all. Those that fought this war went to that war of their own volition because they felt the need (duty?) to protect our way of life here in the US. More than any other war that the US has entered into, the war in Iraq has changed people's minds about how we ought to view our soldiers returning home. There is a pride and respect for our soldiers that we never showed them prior to the war in Iraq and I think it is because we all recognized that we went to war not out of hate, but out of the need to protect our way of life. Protection is what the government is about, its what the state should only be about, and we should be coerced to pay taxes for that protection because we recognize that we can't do it on our own. We would like to think we can, but even the constitution points out the following:
    "we hold these truths to be self-evident,... That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men,"
    I understand this to mean that the men that created the constitution realized that we need government for our own protection, because we can't do it by ourselves.
    Again, I'm a big fan of your writings, and I would love for you to discuss these points with me.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, the A10.
    Or how to love an enemy fanatically sworn to either convert, enslave and kill you, that last multiple choice bit most likely the end result regardless.
    No need to waste energy hating evil fiends who simply need to be blown off the planet.
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  • Posted by Dobrien 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I built a model of the A10 with my boys 28 years ago . It packed a big punch with a rapid fire rotating big gun in its nose.
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It’s not easy to initially categorize people with accuracy. That said, it’s more effective than taking toe time initially to learn about each person individually. Even though I might initially categorize you and think you are a liberal Jew, I can always allow for additional information to modify my original assessment. Most of what I am talking about happens in an instant in terms of a feeling. And we all do it. Tell me you don’t categorize instantly a black persons with baggy pants having off their ass
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hate the sin and love the sinners while shooting them dead like the too dangerous to live mad dogs that they are.
    Mystic me can get into that. Fly in the warthogs! Rat-tat-tat! Boom! Hallelujah!
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  • Posted by Dobrien 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The financiers , the weapons dealers ,the statists
    they benefit from wars with no risk to themselves.
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  • Posted by Dobrien 7 years, 11 months ago
    Thanks Robert,
    Excellent, well done.
    A simple saying comes to mind
    "Be careful what you wish for"
    the left's attack on free speech.
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  • Posted by GaryL 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I respectfully disagree! Can you tell by looking at or talking to me if I am Jewish, Muslim, Mormon, Russian, German or almost anything else? Don't answer that because you might immediately conclude that I am a liberal or some other undesirable and be 100% wrong.
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The problem in our advanced society is that there is not enough time to spend time carefully evaluating EACH person individually. One has to categorize people and make generalizations, at least initially, in order to survive in society. Call me racist, or the other -ist names, but generalizations are just required. What is lost by missing out on some good people is counterbalanced by the elimination of bad people. One's generalizations can become more and more carefully crafted with experience so they are more accurate.
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  • Posted by GaryL 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I just cannot lump and label folks like this. Russians, Jews, Muslims, Mormons. There is not a single group here that is all bad or evil. Sure I can completely disagree with their religious and political beliefs but in all reality so do many of them. I say hate the message but not the messenger.
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