Ok, well winter also has the albedo effect from snow, and cloud would tend to insulate then, correct?

The sun is a constant you fool. Just look at my argument, and give me the steering wheel.

Owl here, You know my theme "Plant more Trees"! I would drag all the world leaders out of this latest Summit meeting hand them a shovel and a tree sapling saying: go plant! If they don't take their shovel and hit hem over the head with it. I'm so tired that all they is yap their flap but are so afraid to get their hands dirty in the dirt. Oh yea, the only dirt they know is in their corrupt governments.

I think I'll keep it in my future comments. Global worming. I like it.

CO2 levels have been 10 to 100 times higher than today, you might say, there is not enough. CO2 is an electrical dispersent, something we might need in the years to come.

The Amazon rain forest does not create OX nor CO2...it's a wash; breathing in CO2, exhaling OX- daytime and just the opposite during the night. CO2 hangs around during winter and is not in demand due to most of the green plant and tree life being dormant...and again, just the opposite during spring, summer and early fall.

News Flash...most of our oxygen comes from the interactions of cosmic radiation and our ionosphere and perhaps other process we haven't discovered yet.

NOAA and NASA has been caught tampering with the temperature data; not to mention years of installing temperature recording equipment in the hottest parts of cities...still, the original data and satellite data can be found and it all averages out to net cooling.

Grand Solar Minimums are noted for mostly cold cloudy weather, warmer or the same as usual in some areas but the worst of all things: Unpredictability of temperature in relation to growing food.

Did you know we lost 40% of our wheat crops here in the USA due to freak snow storms in May this year. Did you know that most of Europe has lost their Fruit crops in the past two years due to freak cold, ice and snow storms.

Yes, it's the Sun Silly and has been on a reliable Cycle for millions of years. Start with the Dalton and Maunder-(GSM) minimums and work your way back, 400 years at a time.
Remember, at the onset of a GSM, Europe usually gets it first and they have already.

What confounds us in the present onset of another GSM is our weakening magnetic shielding and rapidly moving magnetic poles; we have no idea how this will, if at all, effect the coming climate change...But the one thing we do know is...it's not your fault!

When thinking of climate, always remember that Environment, weather and climate are different things. Climate is weather and temperature patterns over a long period of time of which the condition of our Environment plays absolutely No role what so ever.

Just like Los Vegas...what happens in the troposphere...stays in the troposphere.

"This approach is fallacious and simplistic (I am trying to be kind)."

It's actually quite nefarious. The purpose of AGW is the destruction of capitalism and the global redistribution of wealth. Applying reason is only really appropriate when you're talking to someone rational and this criteria doesn't apply to the AGW true believers.

global worming... love that typo. :-)

See Henrick Svensmark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANMTP...

You just can't fix stupid. So some of you global warming experts explain how ice melts a -33 degrees celsius

snip:

July 4, 2017 : Coldest July Temperature Ever Recorded In The Northern Hemisphere

Climate experts immediately responded to the record cold by saying Greenland is melting faster than expected at -33C.


In fact, Greenland has gained a near record amount of ice this year, and the ice is melting very slowly.

Hi Nickursis,
Increase in Cosmic rays 15% 2015-2017 this year expected to increase 17%.
More clouds increases the Albedo effect.
Albedo is the fraction of solar energy (shortwave radiation) reflected from the Earth back into space. It is a measure of the reflectivity of the earth's surface. Ice, especially with snow on top of it, has a high albedo: most sunlight hitting the surface bounces back towards space.
Cloudy during the day cooler, cloudy at night doesn't cool down as much as clear skies
allows all the heat to escape most noticeable in winter.

Climate models notoriously and publicly bad ............Period

The sun is sucking up all the CO2 (with us still gagging on what's left down here) that mankind has made until it explodes, causing the sky to fall.
This will occur during an unusually hot spring afternoon on April 1, 2018, at precisely 4:41 PM ET, according to government funded science.

I wonder how the sun changes currently happening can be attributed to humanity. There is no doubt that this will cause climate change in some form or another. If that's the case, then surely fossil fuels used by the human race must be at fault. Why not? This is just as probable as blaming humanity for global worming or the many other changes in the earth's climate.

I was reading about the "little ice age" some years ago. This was about 1350-1850~. The book, which I can't remember the title, was talking about the Black Death, US revolution, glacier changes (advances/retreats) and the reformation of the Protestant/catholic Christian churches. This ~500 year period had the Thames freezing, massive die-offs of animals and people as well as social changes. The point was made that the sunspot solar cycle was at an observed 1000 year low and hasn't been repeated since. All of this is obvious conjecture because records haven't been kept accurately for the lifetime of the planet, but we have climate and solar data going back about 2000 years plus the ice cores and ground cores going back about 200,000 years give or take. Most people I have chatted with on college campuses buy the climate change position hook, line, and sinker. When I chat with older non college age folks, they have a more skeptical view. Oh well. Someone will finally figure it out, whether they are human, fish, or insect. Given all the extinction events, I'm hoping it's human, before the fish or insects take over...

For an interesting excursion into cosmology, astrology and climatism we need merely look at the works of Theodor Landscheidt. From what I have been able to learn, Landscheidt looks beyond the sun, at such things as the positions of the giant planets and at their influence on the center of mass of the entire solar system. If I remember correctly he also concerns himself with the position of the sun in the plane of the galaxy.

Anyone who even mentions Landscheidt's name apparently gets held up for ridicule, for supporting ideas that are mere astrology.

Is anyone here an expert on mechanics? I mean the stuff you learn by studying Goldstein or Lanczos, not taking apart your car's engine.

Oh, and if you are not any sort of expert, this educational film might be of help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyzAO...

Could you provide more information about the recent Russian and French scientists' discoveries? I'd like to read more about it but am not sure who or which expedition you're talking about. TIA.

It is easy to understand. Climate change has been with us for millions of years! When the "Global Warming" crowd speak, they only want to speak about man-made root causes. This approach is fallacious and simplistic (I am trying to be kind).

The reality is that whatever takes with the workings (and output) of the sun will be definition have an impact on the planets surrounding it. The question is to what extent. As for the most recent "drop" in the temperature of the surface of the sun, we have no idea of what is causing it however, if you look at the various readings (and images) taken from the SOHO satellite, it is striking in the shear size of the "hole".

Solar flares also have an impact (good and bad) and now after a number of years, scientists are predicting (based on studies) that the sun will be going into what amounts to a dormant period that will be much quieter than previous solar cycles. Again, this is not man-made and will have impacts for probably the next 10 or 15 years at least.

Lastly, as was stated previously, even the "rant" that carbon dioxide (man-made of course) was the "root" cause of "Global Warming", now as of a week or so ago, Russian and French scientists working together in the Antarctic have take 10,000 year old core samples of the ice and what do they find? That contrary to "conventional wisdom" of today's "climatologists" global warming was preceded (not a result of) carbon dioxide. The samples do not lie. This basically turns the "hypothesis" the Global warming crowd has been using on its head.

So, the point here is that good science takes all data, uses hypothesis first, builds the appropriate protocols, tests results of those experiments and uses "honest" outcomes with all data to continue to search for the Truth - Empiricism not "pop" science!

For these reasons all of the demonizing those who have not signed onto the man-made, global warming bandwagon should return to good science. With that being said, there is definitely climate change afoot (has been for millions of years) however spending trillions of dollars in the wrong place accomplishes absolutely nothing!

For what its worth!

Clouds both reflect short wave solar radiation back into space and trap long wave heat radiation in the atmosphere. Climate models notoriously and publicly bad on their cloud models if even included.

The sun cycles between active and passive periods, with the active being associated with planetary warm periods, and the passive with cooler climate. The last quiet cycle was associated with the Maunder minimum, leading to the little ice age several hundred years ago (from which we have been recovering, with planetary warming).

The relationship is still controversial. Svensmark's hypothesis is that cosmic rays encourage cloud formation. That's not very controversial, we' looked at them in 'cloud chambers'. A few years back there was a study at Cern which confirmed it. They had to dance around the announcement for fear of attracting the ire of the global warming thought police.

The solar wind blocks cosmic rays, less solar activity, less solar wind, more cosmic rays. If the hypothesis is correct, that makes more clouds, increasing reflectivity. Makes for cooler planet -- except possibly at the poles which would warm because clouds are less reflective than snow.

He even speculates that the orbit of the solar system around the galaxy causes it to dip above and below the galactic plane and as we pass through the plane we get increased cosmic rays and periodic ice ages. Very speculative but interesting. I haven't seen any good theories as to why we have periodic ice ages.

It seems like it should be part of their area since the sun powers everything on earth. I'm sure someone studies this.

I actually do not even understand the relationship between cosmic rays, solar output, and sunspots. I just know sunspots have a huge effect on radio propagation. 10 meters easily supports worldwide communication during a sunspot peaks and is for local communication only during the troughs.

I am not sure what the impact is, Dob's articles point to something where coronal mass ejections cause LESS cosmic ray activity and solar minimum seems to allow for more. However, I would say that there seems to be some connection here that the climate dudes were maybe not caring about, since it wasn't in their "area".

Dob, I can't figure this out, are they saying increasing clouds decrease warming by reflection or increase it by trapping heat? I couldn't figure out what they were driving at.

http://news.spaceweather.com/cosmic-r...
And https://home.cern/about/experiments/cloud

Sunspot activity is a major influence on global temperature.

Changes in sunspot activity go with changes in the amount and wavelength of radiation emitted by the sun.
The atmosphere of our planet contains water vapor.
Increased radiation in certain wavelengths causes water vapor to condense into clouds.
Clouds reflect more heat than does a clear atmosphere so the planet cools.
Heat not reflected reaches the surface and dissipates more slowly as cloud cover is a
physical barrier to convection.
More clouds thus cause lower temperature on the planet, and the daily temperature range is lower.

( All this is standard uncontroversial long standing stuff in meteorology and
makes no recourse to fallacious so-called 'greenhouse effects'. )