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The Lack of Shame

Posted by Shrugger 9 years ago to Politics
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The Lack of Shame

121107 jn

This is a true story. It happened exactly as described.

It was around noon on election day, November 6, 2012. I was sitting in McDonalds. A group of old retired men were enthusiastically talking about the election... saying nothing of note, but with much ignorance and stupidity. I stayed out of it. An employee of McDonalds was clearing a nearby table and quietly said to me, "This has been going on all day... I can't wait for this election to be over."

A couple was waiting in line. They were a typical, mid-forties, white, middle class couple. They were listening to the old guys discussing the election and the state of the union in general.

One of the retired guys said something negative about "Obama-Care" and the middle-class white guy in line turned to him suddenly and said, "Oh yeah, well I'll have you know that if it wasn't for Obama's healthcare plan, I wouldn't have any health insurance right now."

This silenced the old guys. He continued, appearing to speak to the room in general, "Obama made it possible for me to cut the cost of my insurance by over 80%, so I voted for him again."

The entire room was silent. Nobody said a word. Before I knew what I was doing, I heard myself addressing him.

"You actually sound like you're proud of that", I said.

"You're damn right I am," he replied indignantly.

"In other words, you're proud of the fact that instead of paying for your health insurance yourself, you and Obama have ganged up on ME and have forced me, at the point of a gun, to pay for part of your health insurance. You're actually PROUD of the fact that you are mooching off of me and all those people working behind the counter in McDonald's... that you're part of a gang that is using the power of the government to FORCE us to pay for your healthcare. Instead of feeling ashamed... instead of bowing your head and cowering in front of all the people you are depending on to pay for your healthcare insurance... instead of meekly thanking them for the sacrifices they are being forced to make in order to benefit YOU... instead, you stand there claiming that you're PROUD! What do you have to be PROUD of? Are you proud of the fact that you're unable or unwilling to take care of yourself? Are you proud of the fact that you're stealing part of their wages for your own personal greed? No... shame is what you should feel. Disgrace... embarassment... and gratitude... along with a strong dose of remorse... because YOU can't or won't take care of yourself and so you joined a mob of others who can't or won't take care of themselves... and together you've figured out how to force US to take care of you. Shame on you."

Nobody said a word. The guy was stunned and his wife stood there mortified. The room was absolutely silent for a moment, then one of the retired guys started clapping... and within a few seconds, he was joined by another... then by someone across the restaurant... and pretty soon it sounded like the entire restaurant was applauding.

I had delivered my little sermon while still seated at my table. I remained seated and looked down at my meal... angry at myself for having lost my temper and butting in rather than minding my own damn business.

Within a minute or so, the room quieted down again and everyone went about their business, pretending nothing had happenned.

Then I heard the guy quietly say to the McDonald's counter person, "Can I change my order... I'd like that, to-go please."


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  • Posted by LetsShrug 9 years ago
    I have a friend that I shared this with and she's convinced that an LDS person said this same (or very close-minus current content: obamacare...) speech about 47 years ago.
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    • Posted by radical 9 years ago
      Religionists are for the most part socialists. They spew that drivel about "your brother's keeper" and then go vote for Obama, et al.
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      • Posted by WWJGD 9 years ago
        Yep. I kinda sorta saw it for some years, but it didn't really become clear to me until I read Atlas.

        Ayn Rand lays it out really well just how and why the two are no different from each other.
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        • Posted by LetsShrug 9 years ago
          I think you missed my point. My friend was saying that the speech was very similar to some speech given by an LDS person a really long time ago. In other words...she didn't believe the speech was real. As for religions being socialists, I do not agree. Of course I'm saying this as a person who hasn't entered a church in decades because the whole idea of organized religion seems hypocritical to me, but anyway, I think most religions preach self sufficiency and personal responsibility, but in hard times you take care of each other. Either way, I don't think we can blame religion for Obama winning...probably quite the opposite. We're out numbered that's all I know for sure.
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          • Posted by WWJGD 9 years ago
            First of all, "socialism" is probably the wrong word to use in connection with the "great religions." "Collectivism" is both more appropriate and more accurate.

            And yes, there is a huge collectivist theme running through Christianity, which they inherited from their parent religion. I presume that Islam does as well but I don't actually know.

            *I* think it's all a natural outgrowth of the tribalism that was, once upon a time, necessary for the survival of the Jewish race -- but I'm not an anthropologist and you shouldn't listen to me.

            Note that we're not including the "Eastern" religions in this discussion.

            Anyway, a read through the New Testament shows rampant collectivism in the Early Church -- along with its well-known problems, to the point in which Paul had to admonish one church "that if any would not work, neither should he eat."

            There is also, of course, the well-known, well-misunderstood (and mis-translated) scripture about the Root Of All Evil.

            So, yeah, the "western" religions are full of Collectivism. The "eastern" religions -- I have no idea.
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  • Posted by wgingram1 8 years, 12 months ago
    to seymourblogger
    You are the second person who has suggested that I read http://armstrongeconomics.com/. I have started and so far it makes perfect sense. I may be making the switch here shortly. Your confirmation and second recommendation has pushed me over the top.
    Thanks bud.....
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  • Posted by wgingram1 8 years, 12 months ago
    Great. I wish I had the guts to say that as such a time. I just normally shake my head and mumble under my breathe "Moocher", "Freeloader" or something more crude.

    I'm going to print out your statement and place it in front of my computer so I can look at it when ever I'm sitting there and commit it to memory and next time I hear someone make a statement like that, I can promise you personally that I will unload on him, her or them and give them both barrels. Maybe they will think twice about making statements like that and maybe ever realize it what they want "hurts" others who are hard work people.

    Again. Thank you for your story.
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  • Posted by wgingram1 8 years, 12 months ago
    Great. I wish I had the guts to say that as such a time. I just normally shake my head and mumble under my breathe "Moocher", "Freeloader" or something more crude.

    I'm going to print out your statement and place it in front of my computer so I can look at it when ever I'm sitting there and commit it to memory and next time I hear someone make a statement like that, I can promise you personally that I will unload on him, her or them and give them both barrels. Maybe they will think twice about making statements like that and maybe ever realize it what they want "hurts" others who are hard work people.

    Again. Thank you for your story.
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  • Posted by freebirdofnash 9 years ago
    Lack of shame is only part of the problem...
    We the people have forgot what the law of nature is to man. It was in our Declaration of Independence. The law of nature is basically this. Animals are set to a few laws of nature and so is man. When you take that and religion out of the education, then what do we look up to... chaos and disorder. If it is not in the schools, it must not exist...is that right? We, as humans, think we know so much...we revel in our own nature. We think "We" are the answer to everything. I think we are so far from the point, we could not find our own way back.
    It is so much more than Shame!
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    • Posted by itisntluck 9 years ago
      We aren't animals, even though the irrational among us act like them. Religion has it's hands all over unearned guilt and altruism. The idea of "original sin" is repulsive. Why would any rational human buy that garbage?
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  • Posted by radical 9 years ago
    Wow! Some of the intellectualism on this blog even escapes an intellectual like me( following Ayn Rand, Thomas Sowell, and Walter Williams.) If doctors and the medical profession in general are the elite, or elitists, I'd rather have them that way than profressionals being beaten down by elitist politicians and bureaucrats.
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    • Posted by WWJGD 9 years ago
      Don't worry, Radical, there's nothing intellectual about Foucault or anyone else in that crowd.

      The ONLY people who take him seriously are lit-crit majors who are so wrapped up in their mutual-masturbation society that they have lost all contact with reality.

      Foucault was a radical (and I mean REALLY radical) Left-winger who, among other things, was a big supporter of Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini. I don't think we need to spend any more time on him.
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  • Posted by radical 9 years ago
    I had a similar opportunity at a pharnacy last week. I was picking up four prescriptions after my coronary artery surgery. The pharmacist said that the total was $139.00. Some nosey old lady (probably voted for Obama) standing next to me said, "Wow, that's a lot." I immediatelty responded "No, it isn't. These medicines are saving my life." The pharmacist and his staff heard this, as well as other customers waiting to pick up their prescriptions. The nosey old lady felt stupid, I'm sure, and she is stupid.
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  • Posted by Extinctionrising 9 years ago
    Shame, decency, honesty loyalty are all moral concepts buttresses by religion. State socialism is intrinsically mechanist, treating people as godless units of productivity to be use, misused and eventually eliminated by the state. Freedom is anathema to the socialist as it is inherently individual rather than collective in nature, and it does not submit to the exchange of votes for tangibles.
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  • Posted by cz777 9 years ago

    5

    Posted by kyates3 4 days, 6 hours ago
    I'm currently a college student studying engineering. Yes, I got scholarships for school tuition, but I still work as much as I can to make it. During the summer I worked two jobs and literally never took a day off except a few days where I was ill. My dad died when I was young, and my mom worked three jobs to support her three children; my sister, my brother, and I. To moochers like that guy, I would like to give them a swift kick in the ass.
    Reply | Permalink now its very sad /evil that education is set by a mindless green /political agenda than facts ..which shows the dumbing down the whole of a nation to knuckle dragging cavemen aka dark age in the making !
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  • Posted by no1laserjock 9 years ago
    Really Awesome! Thanks for speaking out! I am one of those who is on the FMIP program. This is one of Obamas first health care changes: The Federal Medical Insurance Pool. To all of you, who are being extorted at the point of a gun to pay for this. First THANK YOU!!! I am honestly grateful and appreciative as well as being terribly humiliated to the point of wishing to commit suicide-often. Had I been taught and brought up with Nathaniel Branden’s 5 principles of the libertarian: 1. Do you want your children to grow up to take responsibility for their own choices and actions? 2. Do you want your children to grow up to understand that in human relationships they must carry their own weight and earn their own way? 3. Do you want your children to grow up feeling that they ought to earn whatever it is they want out of life? 4. Do you want your children to grow up thinking or feeling that the world owes them a living? 5. Do you want your children to grow up feeling entitled to what others produce without any effort on their part? … or, even with the 6 pillars of self-esteem. I do not think I would be in this hell. And if there is a hell, I hope Jesus and Immanuel Kant are writing in its depths. But I’m not bitter, oh no…
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    • Posted by seymourblogger 9 years ago
      Whoa. Look at Nathaniel Branden and Barbara too. Nathaniel never had an original thought of his own. Whe he did, and I will forever be grateful to him, was to FORMALIZE Ayn Rand's Principles of Objectivism. If Branden's NBL had not presented Rand's Objectivism in the form it was presented to me (read rote, 1,2,3, examples, etc) I would never have gotten it so far brainwashed was I in this method of presentation from my former education. Now from a different place I see he subverted all of her fiction, got her to write ridiculous non-fiction, make him super wealthy, and steal his life from him to pay for that. NB never had one original idea and that includes self-esteem which existed in philosophy and psychology long before he wrote about it. Or even thought about it. As for Barbara I don't even want to go there, and I loved her as my teacher. Both of them have made a nice living as 35th raters on Ayn Rand and her work. Neither have contributed anything original. Sorry. I do take no prisoners.
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      • -1
        Posted by no1laserjock 9 years ago
        Well, I am not really going to argue this. I am friends with Nathaniel and Leigh. I'll admit I am guilty of some broad brush abstractions in my post. I am a totally unapologetic anti-chrisitian / anti-theist pro individualist. We must be aware of our own generalizations, universalizations when dealing with others. We all use philosophy and we all deal with psychology as socially influenced. I wish there was an easy 3 step philosophy to save the world but there isn't. I am going to keep looking though.
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  • Posted by scottee 9 years ago
    why can't we just have a correlation between minimal federal taxes collected from everyone...and money spent by Washington?
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    • Posted by Lucky 9 years ago
      Simple: Stop government borrowing.
      When governments discovered debt it was a dream solution, it enabled handouts, but there seemed to be no downside as taxes did not have to rise (in the short term). There is no pleasure greater than spending other people's money. The handouts and debt just go on and up. At some point a government finds it cannot roll-over loans when they become due.
      This is happening in Europe for some southern countries. The German government imposed a few conditions then lent even more, tho' their public is critical.
      Should this happen to the US, there is only China that can come up with cash of the amount needed.
      There would be a 'price' to pay.
      Side note- what did China do to their economy to grow so fast and have spare cash? They brought in capitalism, tho' not democracy.
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  • Posted by grmwr 8 years, 9 months ago
    you all make me laugh, john galt wouldn't have taken the time to even spit on any of you. Don't delude yourselves, none of you would've been invited to the gulch!
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  • Posted by seymourblogger 9 years ago
    All of what you are saying here could be better understood and communicated by a careful study of Foucault. Power/Knowledge/Capital are a Grid, a Matrix that encompass us all. We can argue pro and con about this until we also are old and retired and grumbling and still no closure will be available to any of us. I will disobey one of my caveats and say that the insurance industry is being forced to give back now for favors received for decades and decades.
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    • Posted by WWJGD 9 years ago
      Oh, really?

      And just what would these "favors" be?
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      • Posted by seymourblogger 9 years ago
        Oh really? Yes really. I am assuming you have not read or studied Foucault so if I am wrong, please enlighten me.
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        • Posted by WWJGD 9 years ago
          You are correct; I had never heard of him before. A brief look at Wikipedia convinces me that to read or study him would be a waste of my time. I am, of course, open to hearing more. But I'm not going to wade through a cesspool of deconstructionist bullshit just to find out WTF you're talking about.
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          • Posted by WWJGD 9 years ago
            OK, a REALLY funny quote I found on some Objectivist forum somewhere while looking up info on this Foucalt guy:

            "Among the forms of knowledge dismissed by them, especially in the case of the Deconstructionist philosopher Michel Foucault, is medicine, because medical science is merely an elite knowledge system that confers power on rich doctors. I have long believed that one of the funniest things in life must be a Deconstructionist professor of comparative literature in need of an emergency root canal, being treated by a deconstructionist dentist. ('Your pain is not real, it is subjective, let me narrate about it to you, there is no pain in reality, Novocain will just interfere with your narrative.')"
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      • Posted by seymourblogger 9 years ago
        ONe decades ago "that they could never be investigated by congress" . This comes from a nice presentation by A.L. Williams. Art Williams made a billion dollar company exposing the cheating of the insurance industry. He won, but "they could never be investigated by congress ever ever again. He built A.L. Williams on their perfidy. Now of course everyone knows about erm insurance versus whole life scam that went on for decades.
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  • -1
    Posted by Wanz75 9 years ago
    The story is obviously fake. The verisimilitude of objectivists illustrates their delusion and two-dimensional thinking. You people, like spoiled children, take what you have been given for granted.
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  • -2
    Posted by sword 9 years ago
    Apparently the ingnorance that was pervasive in that MacDonalds, included the writer. I, along with thousand of others, are contributing to at least eight (8) different healthcare plans. Thanks to short sighted politicians and populace, we have the most expensive, inefficient and disfunctional healthcare in the world. "Obamacare" actually makes everyone have healthcare without a government subsidy, which is now paying for 144 million people (+/-). It is not perfect but it is a start. Healthy and educated human resources contibute to a successful economy and decreases the dependancy on government.
    Capitalism is an economic system only (not a social system), which provides goods and services. It has the advantage that it allows the freedom to consistantly inprove the goods and services available, by providing rewards for the efforts. However it also creates a burden on society - it requires infrastructure and resources (human, manmade and natural). If it doesn't address this burden with a sense of responsibility and accountability, that burden is magnified.
    We must stop being selfish and interpreting the Constitution in selfish ways - read the Preamble it defines the Constitution as the social compass of the American Society and the Social Consciousness of American Capitalism.
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    • Posted by prop3th 9 years ago
      I disagree with sword's posting. Capitalism is a social system as well. Capitalism is the method of social interaction for almost any type of exchange. Time, money, labor, etc. The constitutions preamble is the over guiding theme of the founding fathers intent, and their gift. The "burden" as sword states, has in fact been paid for by the capitalists in our country. That "is' the burden. The moochers and looters who voted last week for Obama carry none of the burden. Social responsibility and accountability becomes slavery when it is not voluntary.
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    • Posted by 9 years ago
      Sword... are you REALLY implying that I am ignorant because I don't agree that you have the right to FORCE me to help you pay for your existence?

      And then you state that we must "stop being selfish"...???!!!

      You First...!!!

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    • Posted by hdmtnryder 9 years ago
      Obamacare is 2700 pages of "the secretary shall decide" on the road to communism. He who would trade freedom for temporary security deserves neither. And the constitution does NOT give the federal government that power. The preamble to the constitution is a goal and desire, grand but unobtainable in this age.
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    • Posted by $ jmlesniewski 9 years ago
      Except you ignore the most important thing, why MUST every person have healthcare? What if a person doesn't want it?
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      • Posted by WWJGD 9 years ago
        @jmlesniewski, I suggest you alter your phrasing slightly (above).

        It's not an issue of whether "every person [must] have healthcare." To say it this way is to fall victim to the way the looters have framed the issue.

        The whole topic of "framing" is something I should probably expand upon, but not in this thread. It's an old Leftie tactic that guarantees they win an argument by (improperly) defining the terms of the argument.

        We MUST stand against that.

        I would prefer that you would have said, "why MUST every person have health insurance?" -- which is the real issue.
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      • -1
        Posted by seymourblogger 9 years ago
        Consider healthcare from a different perspective. OK I will consider it from the perspective of a Foucauldian Grid of power/knowledge/capital. Healthcare will not and does not exist in a little bubble of its own. It is knowledge/power/capital. That is, it will never be separate from the three variables of power/knowledge/capital. You are very fat. You are at high risk or already have diabetes. You have health care. What do you think your practitioner is going to prescribe for you? Do you really think you will get "healthcare"? Say you are a long term smoker. What do you think they will prescribe for you as your symptoms become unmanageable? Is it going to take nicotine drug tests to get you to go cold turkey off the smokes in order to get the govt paid oxygen tank so you can breathe? Health care has consequences, just as everything else you decide or do has. I think the only ones who address this issue are the far right fanatics.
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    • Posted by WWJGD 9 years ago
      I also disagree with certain parts of this (sword's) post. The old saw that "Capitalism is an economic system only" sounds like something someone was told in a Econ 101 class years ago by a Marxist professor, and never thought to challenge.

      The old Socialist criticism that Capitalism "creates a burden on society" (sometimes also expressed in terms of "externalities") was disproved decades ago by the Austrian school.

      We would all do well to do enough reading (the literature is voluminous) to understand this lie thoroughly so we don't get caught in its trap.

      And as far as saying "We must stop being selfish" in THIS forum -- words fail me. Wow. Just wow. You might as well just stand up in church and start using the "F" word.
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    • Posted by 9 years ago
      JF, I understand your cynicism... to be perfectly honest... I didn't really believe it while it was happening. It wasn't a planned reaction.

      More importantly... you MUST believe that the feeling of entitlement that many of our fellow citizens now have is, at least in part, the fault of all who continue to support a system that fosters that mentality.

      You can not compromise with irrationality.

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  • -7
    Posted by cswholes 9 years ago
    This story is another stupid Republican lie. The guy hasn't saved 80% and the regs for adults don't even kick in until 2014. It is a pity that this fine work by Ayn Rand has been perverted by Republican looters.
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    • Posted by Host 9 years ago
      Keep burying your head in the sand. You find it hard to believe Obama's electorate is that stupid? Have you watched Obamaphone lady? "Keep Obama in president! Romney sucks!" Yes they really don't get it. They have never been taught and are not even interested in learning or challenging themselves. That is why they are where they are. And why we have a highly uninformed electorate.
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