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SUBMISSION

Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 11 months ago to Philosophy
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Fifteen years ago, I was introduced to a young man who had escaped from Paris. Paris? Yes, Paris. He was the oldest son of a father who was an orthodox Muslim. They were quite well off. He was not too sure of his father's business. He was 20, had excellent grades and was a top athlete. After he graduated, his father informed him it was now time for him to go back to his town of origin and study to become an Imam. However, he was raised as a Parisian, speaking perfect French as well as Arabic. He studied the Koran but as he grew up he contrasted his world of Christian sophistication with his duties and attitudes of a Muslim cleric. No comparison, Unknown to his father, he took increments of "spending" money from the ATM card his father gave him and instead of living expenses he had saved the money until when he was to return to his Arabic roots, he traded in his plane ticket for one to London. I won't detail how he changed his identity and wound up in NYC, and eventually the heartland. Here is his view of Islam:
(I have edied it for brevity). "Islam is based on virtue; the very word means 'submission.'' It is truly not a religion, nor is it merely a set of beliefs but it is an entire way of life. The Koran doesn't simply govern everyone's conduct it is extended to all aspects of society. It regulates law, war, peace, education, economics, sexual conduct, trade and family. Sharia governs everything. It mitigates what it considers the rot of all other beliefs."

Between the Koran and Sharia, if one is to believe, there is no possible way that any Muslim true believer can ever be at peace with any other philosophy or way of life. All of those seeking peace will inevitably be frustrated because they are dealing with shadows. A charade being put on by Muslims for the benefit, eventually of themselves. All those Western peacemakers know that, yet they continue to participate in a game where the rules all favor their opponents. Everyone, Obama, Trump, Bush, Clinton, knows this, yet they continue to go through the motions -- and my question is, why on earth do they continue to do it.?


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  • Posted by 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That is true. In some imstances, come religions are inching closer to agreement with science as science notes certain ideas of religion confound scientists in the same way. As the king of Siam is said to have said "'Tis a puzzlement."
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  • Posted by 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Of course I'm not talking about math as being an entity. Scientists trying to prove an idea use math as a tool in order to prove that theory, and see if it can be shown to manifest itself in reality, which is why Einstein's theories were finally accepted. However, weirdly enough, in various forms of quantum physics, predicted actions prove a theory, but the math doesn't work. And in some cases, the math is beautiful but the proof in reality has yet to be shown, hence the giant Swiss Collider..
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  • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Absolutely. The other one is taqiyya - the religious exception granted enabling one to lie to further the cause of Islam.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    My point was that they were defensive measures initiated after the Muslim invasions of those lands. Good and evil apply to principles, so if one wants to evaluate the principles of the underlying combatants one can rudimentally assign "morality" to one side or the other, but to me that's pretty crude.
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  • Posted by 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    One has to be careful. Check out what is being said on both sides of an argument. Take the words to extremes in order to see whether they lead toward life or toward death. You might be surprised.
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  • Posted by 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It is ALWAYS good versus evil. There is no such thing as good versus good, because in that scenario it stops being "versus" and becomes education.
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  • Posted by ewv 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Herb, look up the dogma of "dhimmitude" and the way it is practiced in Muslim countries today against 'infidels'. It is an explicit implementation of the "submission" theme you rightly focus on. We don't see dhimmitude mentioned much but it should be.
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  • Posted by ewv 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Math is a science of method. It doesn't itself lead to theories or dead ends about the universe -- the thinkers do that themselves as they use math together with their hypotheses and premises. Their math can be and is used in rationalized houses of cards as well as to find legitimate conclusions.
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  • Posted by ewv 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, but "extremism" is the wrong word -- it only indicates a degree. You could also be extremely pro-individualist, etc. The "extremists" you mean are savages despite the economic circumstances they come from, a less "extreme" version is still horrid.
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  • Posted by ewv 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Progressivism is a form of statism resulting from Pragmatism and centuries of altruism and collectivism, not "misguided elitism" and "it can't happen to me". Understanding does not lead to contradictions, it only exposes them.
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  • Posted by ewv 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It was a continuation of an ongoing battle for power among competing groups, kings and religious factions for a very long time. It was primitive power against primitive power, not good versus evil.
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  • Posted by ewv 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Racism is irrational and unjust. Rejecting CAIR is not racism. You properly reject and denounce them for what they are and what they are doing, not race. They call you a "racist" to try to undermine your judgment of them. Don't let them get away with it, let alone help them.
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  • Posted by ewv 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Scientists with some religious belief made their contributions in spite of religion not because of it. Reason and faith are opposites.
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  • Posted by ewv 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The Enlightenment sure was a turning point in emphasizing reason, but you give religion too much credit: It's arbitrary speculations can't show where we came from or anything else. Modern evolutionary biology has shown more in a few decades than religion did in thousands of years.
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  • Posted by 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    While math leads science to conclusions that promise new horizons, it also leads science to dead ends. But the dead ends only means we aren't there yet. Hence, we have the universe springing into existence from nothing and other hard to accept premises. However, that doesn't mean we can posit equally unproven premises willy-nilly. As we exchange ideas, there is Rather Bright sitting out there about to be hit with an apple or a thought experiment. Perhaps he or she has yet to be born or is about to cash it in. Ve shall see.
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  • Posted by 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    A little Ben Franklin goes a long way.
    Reminds me of Walt Kelly's "Pogo."
    "We have met the enemy and they is us."
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  • Posted by 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree, but I am speaking of specific tribal leaders. The Bedu and such. There are dozens, if not hundreds of desert tribes in the Middle East and the far east. When added up, they make a considerable population.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Any group decides who is included or not included and conducts themselves accordingly, This doesn't necessarily require faith or religion, just common cause and passion.

    The "impossibility of a non-created universe" simply conveys that he had faith that something or someone he couldn't see, touch, taste, or hear created the universe, no?

    Yes generalization ("All religions" "Each (religion) requires...", "Religions thrive..."). There are plenty of non-religious groups that do those things as well and, I'm sure, there are those religious group who do not.
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  • Posted by dutchmanii 7 years, 11 months ago
    The easy way to clear all the Islam/Muslim thing is to go to www.wwmd-tv.com There you will find some videos of 3 episodes of "What Would Mohammad Do", or Islamic Terrorism Explained. If you don't check this out, then it is your fault and responsibility not mine as I've passed it on. So set aside some time and watch. Each episode is about 25 minutes long. I bought the 4 DVD set and gave to my kids and I've a couple to pass around my neighbors. This is the only way to get this info because the lame stream media isn't going to pass it on.
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  • Posted by brkssb 7 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Are you defending the outcasting of nonbelievers from the Mormon Temple and the Ganges? The impossibility of a non-created universe lacks merit in spite of the attribution to Einstein - it merely calls for having faith that there “must” be…a specious argument. Generalization? No, commonality across religions of sanction of the victim.
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