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The Future IS Bright After All.

Posted by LetsShrug 13 years, 7 months ago to Philosophy
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I am happy to announce that I am officially over being depressed about the election and it's dismal results. For about 48 hours I was depressed, sad, stunned and, yes, scared even. Once I realized that the country I grew up in is gone I also realized a few other things. One of them being that you can't wake the dead. What do I mean by that? Well, I've spent that last 4 years trying, desperately to figure out how to wake-up my liberal friends about the dangers of Obama, the people he surrounds himself with and the policies he's put into play (not to mention the looming debt ---16 trillion, last time I looked--- that he's rung up also, but that might actually be a silver lining to the dark cloud hanging over us, but I'll get to that in a bit.)

I have studied, read, listened, researched and soaked up every bit of information I could get my eyes and hands on to understand this in a way that I could simply convey to my “friends” that I wanted to help me save this country. We talked about much, but in the end, it changed nothing. They simply bought into what was easiest to do and what sounded more pleasant to their ears. Free healthcare DOES have a nice ring to it (to those who realize it isn't FREE at all, it's nothing more than destructive). Knowing the government wants to provide a safety net (ie: welfare, bankruptcy protection, wic, food stamps, free schools, free lunches, etc etc) for anyone who falls on hard times (or simply makes bad choices and decisions, or is just plain lazy and wants to be taken care of by someone else) sounds like a good idea too. So, in the end they voted for Obama on account of him being so caring and understanding and just plain “giving”. He wasn't saying things like, “We want to get people off of food stamps and the way there is to make sure businesses can thrive and hire and make more jobs so people can find work and be self sufficient.”, because that sounds more like hard work and who wants to work hard when things are already hard? When people need help they should get help, right? Why punish them even more? Instead, punishing the rich people (the business owners, the job creators) sounded like the better option to the liberals. Tax those the evil, selfish rich people (who make jobs and tax revenue which pays for and makes all the “free stuff” possible...) TAX THEM MORE!

The reason I am no longer depressed and sad is because I've realized one more thing. I am out numbered and there's no way to win when you're outnumbered. Which means I no longer have to try and talk sense into my liberal “friends”. It means I don't even have to talk to them at all, ever again. They are a lost cause. They are the problem. They are the ones trying to destroy ME, by voting for someone who will raise my taxes (by ending the Bush era tax cuts)...((it will also raise their taxes too, but I think they missed that part on account of not paying attention)), by making the dollar worth less (QE3, printing money ...if you don't understand this part, I don't care because it's your fault for not paying attention), robbing me of my medical decisions, (obamacare), higher costs, and a mediocre Dr. because all the smart ones will have left. Subsequent inflation, making my life even more expensive. I do not believe in safety nets. I pay my own way and ask nothing of anyone else. Now that Obama has been invited to hang around, by my "friends", I now have to revise my entire plans for the future and I'll be lucky to have a cent left when all this is over. When all of what is over, you ask? The inevitable bottoming out that this country will face, that's what. Which brings me to that silver lining I mentioned earlier.

The debt is unsustainable. Taxing the rich, taxing the middle class and borrowing more trillions from China won't fix it. Giving moochers more free stuff sure as hell won't fix it either. So.... what WILL fix it? Letting it collapse will do all the dirty work that needs to be done. I don't need to lift a finger, I don't need to try and talk sense into anyone, I no longer need (or even have the desire) to try and stop it. Let's get it over with so the one's who are left can clean up and get back to how life SHOULD be in America. Free and prosperous from sheer hard work and self reliance.

The ones who voted for Obama and all of his gift giving (at my expense), will not have the slightest clue how to survive fending for themselves when their government checks stop showing up. Where that path leads to I will let you figure out (If you're capable of following logic, that is. If not then I'll let the results of your vote be your own surprise.)

I did what I could for others, but I am now out to save ME and MINE and that's it. Don't let your lack of preparedness be my emergency. I will not help you.

“I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.” Ayn Rand.

Adios! :)


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  • Posted by WWJGD 13 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Heh. There's a certain neighbor a coupla miles up this gulch (not Galt's, but it IS named after a pioneer named John!) who's been talking about starting a militia for as long as I've known him.

    I saw his wife at the local watering hole last night. Told her "I'd like to run into your husband." She said, "What do you want to see him for?" I said, "Nothing in particular, just want to shoot the bull and get his thoughts on the election."

    "He's suicidal," she said with not a bit of emotion in her voice or face.

    I'm a bit surprised. I thought a man who brags about having guns, gold, food and ammo stored & ready for the Apocalypse would be delighted.
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  • Posted by 13 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think most of us are feeling the same way about our futures ("retirement" in 20 years ain't lookin' so nice neither,), and we are all struggling with how to handle our "friends", who I now refer to as the walking dead, or "walkers" as they are just as clueless and equally as eager to take from me to fill their bellies even if they aren't even aware that that is their mission. We too hope that things won't be as bleak as they seem to be, but prepare as best we can for the worst. What else can you do besides wearing Atlas shirts all the time and hope to spark an interest...which has actually worked a couple of times, to my great surprise, and speak up whenever you think there's an open ear with a functioning brain next to it. Don't give up. It IS worth the fight.
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  • Posted by Dragon616 13 years, 6 months ago
    I got over the depression brought on by the election in less then 24 hours, however as time has gone on I have gotten more and more depressed. I am in college and I fell like I am surrounded by idiots who voted for Obama yet do WHY they voted for Obama. Among the more what I thought were the "intelligent" among them have chosen to be blinded by others and believe that people are entitled to the sweat of my brow because health care is a supposed "basic human right". Many of the people around me have shot me down constantly including several people who's opinions I respected before the election. And the one person who I believe I can save since I know he knows the facts, believes them for the most part and is very pro capitalistic. All I need to do is get him to read AS. Yet every time I try he ignores me very much possibly due to the bias he got from the media which is very anti-Randian. I worked hard to where I am today struggling against several learning disorders including an incredible difficulty learning languages (I couldn't even string more then 2 words together until I was 3, and even doing that required a lot of training and a lot of effort) and severe ADHD. I have also had some incredibly bad teachers (several got fired over the years in truth), and worked my ass off to get great grades in high school, get Eagle Scout, and get a job that would actually count as job experience (ie not retail or food) in the real world. I managed to work my ass off to be the top business student in the school my senior year and make it into an upper tier college. I had my whole life planned out in front of me and things were suddenly looking like they might shape out for the better, going to double major, double minor, and leave college with distinctions and knowing people high up in the corporation I want to work for. Now what I have to look forward to is years of unemployment if I can even finish college (parents are paying now, but I planned to repay them later in life) and if I can find a job I will just have to suffer through super high taxes and an unbearable cost of living. That and with not one but two financial collapses on the horizon the future for me looks almost too bleak to contemplate. The only thing keeping me working and going is the hope that either things will get better (ie Obama gets impeached) or we will find a Galt's Gulch where one can truly be free. But if neither of those things happen I have no clue what I will do (don't worry, suicide is never on the table :) )
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  • -2
    Posted by C_S 13 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It's absurd to imagine that Randians, or non-Randians, or conservatives, or liberals, or Republicans, or Democrats, or any such group has an exclusive license to logic, or conversely, runs exclusively on emotion.

    When it was time for me to figure out what I thought about Ayn Rand, I didn't turn on the TV or run to DailyKos - I opened a couple of her books and read them (including the entire John Galt speech), considered what she had to say, found it ridiculously oversimplified, needlessly self-congratulatory, and unsupportably Manichean in its world view. (I think even Randians are generally agreed that her writing style does her no favors, but that's a separate issue.)

    I don't consider those of an opposite political alignment to be evil demons; they're having a problem with extremism that's punishing them badly at the voting booth, but unlike Mitt Romney I'm not going to write off half the nation as bad people. That is not to say that there are no bad people in the opposite party, or to say that all the people in my own party are shining saints. Instead, it is to show that in the real world, brushes as broad as Rand's don't have much actual value in seeing what's really going on, just as brushes as broad as Karl Marx's - like Rand, essentially a utopian fantasist - aren't all that useful here in the real world. Both are mostly fool's gold, with only the occasional nugget of the real article mixed with a great deal of dross.

    I know that it's part of the standard Randian rhetoric, to condemn those you disagree with as unthinking; that's another disfavor she's done you, because it's not true. It is possible for people to think hard about these issues and come to different conclusions than I do. There's no shame in admitting that, just as there should be no shame for you to admit the counterpart, that one can indeed thoughtfully disagree with Rand. That doesn't make them evil. Neither, however, does it mean that I haven't thought hard as well, that I haven't gone out of my way to hear what the other side has to say, rather than unquestioningly projecting onto them what some quite biased novelist has told me they think.

    You would think that Randians, of all people, would understand the danger of declaring, in effect, "I can't possibly be wrong about this." Yet that is what many people here do - and, worse, it is also what they tell themselves. The day you declare you can't possibly be wrong is the day your mind has enchained itself. Yet quite a few people here are choosing simple downrating over any kind of actual self-inquiry. That's a sad thing.
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  • Posted by Lucky 13 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Have you considered the possibility that it is they who are right and you who are wrong?"
    The remark is valid - but remember it cuts both ways.
    Right, wrong. Good, bad. True, false.
    How do you tell?
    Try- Discussion, evidence, experiment, logic.
    But not- Gut feeling, authority, emotion, voting.
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  • -10
    Posted by C_S 13 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    As I'm sure you're aware, calling it something doesn't make it so. Calling Rand's stuff 'rational epistemology' doesn't actually make it a rational epistemology, any more than calling it a cheeseburger would make it a cheeseburger.

    There was a time when I actually got pretty familiar with Galt's speech, since it was generally referred to as the most important distillation of Rand's beliefs. What I discovered is that all of that pseudo-Aristotelian window dressing turns out to fall apart on inspection like the proverbial Kleenex in the rain. The reason University philosophy departments don't take her seriously isn't some grand Ellsworth Touhey conspiracy, but the fact that she doesn't really pass the not-a-crackpot test. All of that law-of-identity nonsense she so grievously misapplies isn't there because at root it makes sense - it doesn't, not the way she uses it - but because it gives her naive readers stars in their eyes and a false sense of authority.

    Then I also discovered in listening to and conversing with Randians that, actually, even Randians generally consider the pseudo-Aristotle stuff window dressing. Most of the time they flip past all that stuff about defining existence and thought versus instinct and all that mischmasch that seems to have WWJGD so starry-eyed. It's there only so that you can say to yourselves, as WWJGD apparently does: "everything here is logically unassailable and I can simply flush that part of my brain that questions and is capable of doubts straight down the toilet, as I won't need it here."

    Once again, incidentally, WWJGD confuses the concept of understanding something and accepting it. Would John Galt make the same basic mind-slave mistake?
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  • Posted by WWJGD 13 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    China has been selling their T-bills. They don't own nearly as much of US debt as they used to. They're buying...

    ... gold. Imagine that.

    Trying to remember... I hope I have this right... but I think I read somewhere that the #1 holder of US debt now is the Federal Reserve.

    Which means... well, I'll let you figure that out on your own.
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  • Posted by WWJGD 13 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It's called "rational epistemology" and if you had actually read Rand's works and understood them you would not only be familiar with the term, but understand why we do not need to consider that we might be wrong.

    Now, it's time for you to say goodbye and leave this place.

    This is not a Junior High schoolyard where immature juveniles trade taunts and name-calling. It is a forum for grownups who wish to engage with each other in rational, well-thought-out ideas. The only reason you're here is to pick a fight.

    All you've done during your short time here is ejaculate pejoratives such as "puerile," "adolescent," "straw men" and more -- without ever engaging a single one of Ayn Rand's ideas.

    Unlike other social media sites, THIS one allows trolls, off-topics and flamebait to be modded down, after which no one will ever have to waste his time reading such.

    You now have a choice: begin to engage in rational, adult conversation or leave. Regarding the latter, you can either leave willingly or get modded down to the point where no one ever sees your flamebait.

    Your move.
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  • Posted by 13 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I hope they get that response from others as well. We have made a pact in this house that the next time a salesman comes to our door we will ask who they voted for....and proceed accordingly. (Which is super polite coming from me because usually I just open the door and yell, "I do NOT know you so GET THE HELL OFF MY PORCH!")
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  • Posted by twotwins 13 years, 7 months ago
    I ran into some Greenpeace folks the other day. I am a conservative who loves to recycle and loves to help animals - but not a freak about it.

    I now happily tell those folks to their faces - that because they voted for Obama - I lost my money and can no longer donate any funds to them ever again. You should see their faces!!! They were in absolute shock. Probably the first time they thought about how they really shot themselves in their own feet. My destroying me - they no longer have my generous donations to count on!
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  • -10
    Posted by C_S 13 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Understood it just fine. There's a good chance I understood it better than you do, in fact.

    Thought about it, took a good look around me, and concluded she was wrong. Her experiences in Soviet Russia, tragic as they were, caused her to horrifically misinterpret the fundamentals of the American economy, but her thunderous self-promoting ego would brook no dissent, and unfortunately, her acolytes have caught the same damn we-couldn't-possibly-be-wrong bug, a kind of Stalinist-worthy level of unshakeable certainty no matter the facts on the ground.

    It's a common thing among missionaries - including those proselytizing Randian objectivism - to believe that the message being borne is so obviously self-evident and true that only devils and fools could possibly disagree. Sadly untrue. One can get to know it, even get to know it well, and find in the end that Rand's flaws far outweigh her virtues.

    Now, I know that will be an unpopular message here, given that the very purpose of this site is to be a place where Randistas get together in self-congratulatory unison and reaffirm each others' worldview, taking turns being preacher and choir preached to. But this is exactly the kind of insularity that led to your broad electoral defeat less than a week ago.

    So, it's a very simple question, and how you answer it - or in this case, find yourself completely unable to answer it - is a measure of character, of intellectual strength, and of wisdom as well. And the question is: what if Rand got it wrong, and America got it right? I know that some of you would rather eat your own fingers off than address such a question, but in such cases, your fear and anger and paralysis do the speaking for you.

    Still, the question remains: what if Rand got it wrong, and America got it right?
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  • Posted by WWJGD 13 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Just hold on, LetsShrug, I'm going somewhere with this. I suspect we'll be done with this troll Real Soon Now.
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  • Posted by WWJGD 13 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Then you had better read them again because it's clear that you don't understand a thing that she said.

    In short: Check your premises.
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  • Posted by 13 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hey! Maybe I'm a dude with a husband! (hahahaha...no, I'm not.) lol Do I write like a dude????
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  • -10
    Posted by C_S 13 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    C_S has indeed read several of Ayn Rand's works. They are (if you ignore the overwriting) fun little fantasies, on par with Dr. Who, but unfortunately they are promoted as if their intellectual content is meant to be taken seriously in the real world, and it's just too puerile for that. I don't see, for example, how anyone over the age of twenty can take John Galt's speech as if it had anything to do with anything other than crushing Rand's caricature army of straw men. Rand has simply stacked the deck so thoroughly in her adolescent black-and-white worldview that there's not much value to it as a guide to reality. I would be as suspicious of someone who says he is planning to be John Galt as I would be of someone who says he is planning to be captain of the starship Enterprise.

    And, yes, you "know you are right, and why." Glenn Beck was "right and knew why" on Monday when he predicted Mitt Romney would get 321 electoral votes.

    In short: check your premises.
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  • Posted by Lucky 13 years, 7 months ago
    Yes! Do not give up.
    Do what you can,
    where you are,
    with what you have.
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  • Posted by WWJGD 13 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It is clear that C_S has never actually read any of Ayn Rand's works. Because if s/he had, s/he would recognize himself in the character of Dr. Simon Pritchett.

    Those of us who have actually read Miss Rand's works don't have to "consider the possibility." Not only do we know that we are right, but we know WHY.
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  • Posted by WWJGD 13 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    hroark, I just read your post in another thread on the same topic. I'm going to reply in a thread of my own.
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  • Posted by WWJGD 13 years, 7 months ago
    Yes, I went through the same thing a few years ago.

    I think it was about a year in to Obama's first term that I realized -- well, what you said above. That trying to change things is a lost cause. That I no longer have to be "civil" to people who are working to destroy me. That the only course of action that makes sense is to figure out how to profit from the coming destruction and, as you said above, "save ME and MINE and that's it."

    Bravo, dude. And like you, I haven't been depressed since.
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