I do see how the math makes wealth seem daunting; but, the Founders and Framers wrote out a perfect plan: You see they made everything you earn of your own labor untaxable 'except' in extreme circumstances and only by 'apportionment'. What this does [did], is give you the ability to invest or build a business where you get money from more than just the sweat of your own labor and time. This has NEVER CHANGED in reality, but it has been twisted by the IRS [an outside of the federal government agency created by FDR in the lead up to the War years], and they have broken the law through misinformation.

In that regard, you can be informed by going to several places; one of the best is Losthorizons.com, another is the books; "Cracking the Code", "Was Grandpa Really a Moron?" [both by Peter Hendrickson] and another excellent book is; "Constitutional Income: Do you have any?" [researched and written while being a U.S. Congressman], by Phil Hart.

It is a large amount of information that will first make you mad as heck, then will make you want to hit someone in government but, resist that temptation; LEARN SPREAD THE TRUTH and let's get our country back! Peace to you and yours

What is also scary is that people throw around billions of dollars as if it's not a significant amount of money, either. When people can't even value money, we know that as a society we are in deep trouble.

(And just for kicks, but someone making $8.50/hr would have to work for 56,561 straight YEARS to make $1 billion.)

The News Media most likely did say $200 Billion, let's face it when they back a State currently spending $180 Billion you don't want them to know you will be TRIPLING the budget; especially when you are pushing the narrative that it will only raise the local income tax by 1.7% more than it is currently; the math just doesn't add up! Always here to help spread the truth no matter who it hurts.

Juust another way for Big Brother to put the screws to you.It is a matter of you people create the wealth, give it to us (the Gov.) and we'll take care of you because we know how better than you. Just look at how well we run the......er, never mind the man behind the curtain.

The problem with the socialist mindset is that it demands conformity. It can not exist without it. That is what makes the capitalistic system so superior: it allows for differing mindsets and an objective measure to determine which proposals are more valuable by virtue of the feedback mechanism built into the market. The other problem is that one can not innovate within a socialist mindset, as that would only originate from having different ideas than the conformists. A socialist society is a stagnant and degrading society.

I must have read that wrong, then, as it just stated that they wanted $200 Billion more than they currently had allocated. Thanks for the clarification.

I must point out it's not $200 Billion it is $400 Billion and we must realize they always UNDER CLAIM when they speak of Healthcare costs or Welfare costs. Now, it must be pointed out the whole state of California has a current budget of $180 Billion and they are currently OVER BUDGET, so they are proposing an ADDITIONAL $400 Billion making the total $580 Billion per year and they currently have a State Income Tax of 13.3% and they want, by their statements on the floor of the State House, to INCREASE IT BY 15%, no , not to 15% as you can see the numbers are not there if 13.3% gives them $180 Billion 1.7% will not add up to $400 Billion more. So the People of California will be paying roughly 28.3% to the State and 28% to the federal for a total of approximately 56.3% of their income [for the average middle-class family] to the government income tax which doesn't include the fuel taxes or property taxes. We also must realize, the Doctor's and Nurses will be paying these same taxes when they [at least the best of the best], can move and get paid more then the government will pay them and not have to pay that HIGH TAX RATE! BAD IDEA ALL AROUND!

yes, you are right. liberals today are the LEAST liberal of any of us. No wonder they dont decry the intolerance of islam. Look at the violence over the election of Trump. I think they would just prefer that all Trump supporters were just killed off if they could get away with it.

Yes, but as has been pointed out in this forum before, the "liberals" are actually socialists who have co-opted the term liberal and reversed its meaning completely. A classical liberal was one who valued individual choice, freedom, free markets, etc. (Hayek notes this in The Road to Serfdom even in the 1940's.) Today's liberal is critical of all of these.

liberalism is the result of the inability to use reason over pure emotion in ones life.

the only answer to "repeal and replace" obamacare is expanded government control over healthcare. The answer to "repeal obamacare" is very simple- just repeal it !!!! Let the market figure the rest of it out.

They have not run out of OPM yet. Until the printing press runs out of ink, the government train to nowhere will run on.

One mans need is another mans chains. The more the need the more the chains.

Can you say "Cloward - Piven'?

Didn't some talk show host opine "liberalism is a mental disorder" ? ;)

They don't want to "get it". They want to wallow in their delusions that they can force reality to bend to their whims.

That's the simple argument, yes, but the real problem is that people think that a repeal will return them to the same place we were four years ago. THAT is the mistake being made by everyone - especially the Republicans. The entire healthcare market changed in drastic ways during those four years with insurers going out of business and most businesses making massive changes to their policies and procedures to accommodate the changes. There is no going back. As you noted above, it was all a massive trap and - once sprung - has done its damage. There is only determining the path forward, and (again) you astutely noted that political careers are on the line...

It sure seems like a plague of the brain and may even be contagious also.
The current paradigm rejects the biological and quantum laws of existence that demonstrates the fact that every cell in our bodies are solely responsible for their own survival and when those conditions are met, the value in the culture medium, (the blood) is then passed on.

What part of this don't these creatures get?

I thought repealing Obamacare was supposed to be about REPEALING and letting the free market do its thing.
But no-o!
The main stumbling appears to be all about preexisting conditions. No career politician wants to be blamed for taking that away.
And what's politics besides a career these days?

Precisely. It was engineered as a "no-turning-back" measure to collapse the healthcare system and it is working. The gamble was that Hillary was going to get elected, hasten the collapse, and then champion the single-payer system nationwide, but the backup plan was to allow the Republicans to flounder around and take the heat for trying to abort the collapse. The only way the People win is to let the system collapse and learn from it that government interference never works. The question is really how many people are going to clamor for the safety net again and how many are going to be able to metaphorically cut the cord. The real problem is that in the end, the only sustainable system is free enterprise - all socialist systems crumble eventually when they "run out of other people's money". (Thanks to Margaret Thatcher.)

Kalifornia is the USA of Atlas Shrugged just as an unaffordable "single-payey system" was the end game of a conniving Obamanation's also unaffordable Affordable Health Care Act that Jonathan Gruber designed for "stupid voters."

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated...

I must be Politically In Correct! I have spent my entire life with one enduring purpose, carry my own weight and that of my family while paying what ever fair share of taxes the heap on my. I never have required any outside assistance or hand outs and have always covered my own health care expenses. What part of the facts of life do these freeloaders not understand?

I believe he mentions producers specifically in other sections of the book, but in that section he is talking about the overall mechanics in broad terms. In the edition I have it includes several forwards written by Hayek after his original publication which lay out several of the terminology questions such as historical liberalism, capitalism, socialism, and others. Overall, I found the work captivating and when I compared what he wrote to our world today, I realized how far down the road of socialism we have gone in 60+ years without having learned the lessons we should have from WW II. Socialism was the cause of WW II and will be the cause of WW III as well - especially when teamed up with the Islamic ideology. My fear is that it will take another World War - one that even invades the United States - before those who remain finally understand that only capitalism and traditional liberalism (true freedom) can endure as functioning ideologies.

"... the lie that socialism can long maintain a working relationship with capitalism."

With due respect, I might change the word "capitalism" to the word "producers."

Technically, you are correct. It's an everyone's-a-payer system disguised as an "other-guy-pays" system. ;)