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Boston Herald calls for government-run execution squads to MASS MURDER naturopaths, scientists and journalists who oppose mercury in immunizations

Posted by  $  Dobrien 4 months, 2 weeks ago to News
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From the Boston Heralds editorial staff.
It’s one thing for Hollywood celebrities to wear their anti-vaccine pride like just another fashion trend. It’s another thing when anti-vaccine activists start preying on vulnerable people, particularly within immigrant communities.

Yes, the anti-vaxxers appear to be plying their trade with the Somali community in Minnesota — and the result, sadly, is a dangerous outbreak of measles.

The recent outbreak is now up to 41 kids, all of them under 10. The Washington Post reported Friday that the number of children of Somali descent in Minnesota who have received the vaccination for measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) plunged from 92 percent in 2004 to 42 percent in 2014 — not nearly enough to immunize against those diseases.

Skepticism about vaccines within Minnesota’s Somali community goes back a decade, the Post reported, after parents raised concern about possible higher rates of autism among their children (research later indicated that wasn’t the case).

But it seems that was all the truthers needed to hear. When Somali parents sought answers to explain autism, anti-vaccine activists were delighted to fill in the information gap. The disgraced British doctor who once reported a link between vaccines and autism — which was deemed fraudulent and cost him his medical license — has met with families, the Post reported. Even amid this latest outbreak, anti-vaccine groups have fanned the flames, making it hard for public health officials and doctors to be heard above the noise.

These are the facts: Vaccines don’t cause autism. Measles can kill. And lying to vulnerable people about the health and safety of their children ought to be a hanging offense.

http://www.bostonherald.com/opinion/e...
SOURCE URL: http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-05-11-boston-herald-calls-for-government-run-execution-squads-mass-murder-scientists-journalists.html


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  • Posted by  $  DrZarkov99 4 months, 1 week ago
    I agree that real research needs to be done on the effects of thimerosal, without interference from the big pharmaceuticals. However, sensationalist headlines like the one for this article give ammunition for claims of "fake news". I saw no calls for government-run mass murder squads, so cool the jets a little.
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  • Posted by  $  straightlinelogic 4 months, 1 week ago
    I wonder if the editors would like to meet my son, Austin, who is now twenty. He was a perfectly normal infant until he had a reaction after a cocktail of mercury-laced vaccinations. Several months later we got a diagnosis of autism. I'm not "anti-vaccine," but I am antithimerosal, which is the mercury preservative used in vaccines that are given to children. The pro-vaccine people always conflate the two, and par for the course, this editorial does not mention thimerosal, which makes the editorial board an absolutely execrable POS. The symptoms of heavy metal poisoning of the brain are identical to autism's. Austin just completed his sophomore year in college and is a member of a fraternity, so he has done well. However, his mother and I spent many hours and thousands of dollars on therapies and activities to get him to that point. After our personal experience, let's just say we're somewhat skeptical of all those studies that purport to find no link between autism and vaccines (many of which don't even control for thimerosal) and government science (e.g. climate change) in general.
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    • Posted by  $  puzzlelady 4 months, 1 week ago
      I had measles as a child. It didn't kill me but left me half blind. The only vaccination I had was against smallpox and diphtheria (old country, WWII era). I also survived chickenpox, whooping cough, tuberculosis, and mumps without vaccination. At least my brain wasn't damaged.

      Now why do our modern medical practices have to use mercury if it affects the brain? Does it affect only a small enough percentage of individuals that's it's worth it?
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      • Posted by  $  straightlinelogic 4 months, 1 week ago
        Mercury is a convenience to the manufacturers and has nothing to do with the vaccines. It is used as a preservative to extend shelf life, that's all.
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        • Posted by  $  puzzlelady 4 months, 1 week ago
          Thanks. How can we get them to stop adding it? How did it pass the approval cycle? Extending shelf life is hardly a justification for ruining human lives. They can deny that harm is involved, but in case of doubt, manufacturers' self-interest would suggest erring on the safe side. And why would doctors keep using it?
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          • Posted by  $  straightlinelogic 4 months, 1 week ago
            The vaccine makers are exempt from lawsuits under special legislation, so they don't operate under the usual threat of product liability suits (see link). http://www.npr.org/sections/health-sh...
            The doctors generally cite the studies and the hassle of obtaining vaccines without the thimerosal. Such vaccines are produced, but they are not readily available in all areas. I believe California now requires that vaccines without thimersal be available for parents who request it for their children. I would recommend such a request. Also, vaccinations should be spaced out so children are not hit with multiple doses all at once. If your doctor doesn't know if the vaccinations contain thimerosal or not, assume they do. If your doctor won't administer vaccines without thimerosal, get another doctor. Doctors have not been blameless in all this, but denial runs deep.
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          • Posted by Abaco 4 months, 1 week ago
            The vaccine manufacturers, via Federal legislation are not liable for injuries caused by vaccines. That regulation was later bolstered under G.W Bush with the Patriot Act. Everybody knows that a good patriot is ok with injuring kids...
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            • Posted by freedomforall 4 months, 1 week ago
              Everywhere you look you see laws written to protect corporate interests and stifle productivity. The copyright laws were changed to let Disney maintain the value of the IP created in the early 20th century (Mickey et al.) As a result today's music artists are paying the 4th generation of parasitic descendants of composers from 100 years ago to perform music that should be public domain. Thousands of creative producers have to support parasites because a shyster took over at Disney and paid off the US congress.
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              • Posted by  $  puzzlelady 4 months, 1 week ago
                Those in Congress who accept bribes should be exposed and indicted. Or are they immune from prosecution for corruption, dishonor and betraying the American people? (I'm such a blooming idealist.)
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                • Posted by  $  AJAshinoff 4 months, 1 week ago
                  Treason is the appropriate charge and life imprisonment, forfeiture of wealth and/or execution is the appropriate punishment.

                  Our Constitution makes the betrayal exceedingly vile. They no only undermine the system but corrode the public trust in self governance. Treason.
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                  • Posted by zagros 4 months, 1 week ago
                    The US Constitution states otherwise: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

                    Protecting Disney's copyright, no matter how reprehensible, is NOT a treasonous act. Incidentally, Mickey Mouse is actually in the public domain: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!top...
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                    • Posted by  $  AJAshinoff 4 months, 1 week ago
                      I was not referring to Disney at all. I was referring to anyone in government who willfully works against the interest of the American people and their Constitution. I would argue that these people, in violating their oath for profit, have waged war against the nation they are supposed to be serving and even offered aid to their enemies of the Constitution (sOme mOre than Others).
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                      • Posted by zagros 4 months, 1 week ago
                        It doesn't matter. The law is very clear. Making war requires an actual plan to overthrow the legitimate government by use of armed force. Sorry but what you are referring to simply isn't treason. It is still illegal and should be punished very severely. However, you cannot call it treason.
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                        • Posted by  $  AJAshinoff 4 months, 1 week ago
                          Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

                          I could argue that "Adhering to their enemies" would apply to politicians.

                          Adhering - to be devoted in support or allegiance; be attached as a follower or upholder.

                          Alliances, philosophical, which are acting on by politicians and go against the Constitution, violating their oaths of office, could be considered treason. Frankly, I wish it would. We'd get a lot less anti-Americans in office.
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                        • Posted by  $  AJAshinoff 4 months, 1 week ago
                          This veteran thinks it does. "All enemies foreign and domestic" is the oath I swore, as did they. I suppose it's how you define "war" and "enemy" and whether knowingly violating your office and offering support to enemies of this country Constitutes an act of sedition.
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                          • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
                            What a "veteran thinks" does not change the Constitution.
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                            • -1
                              Posted by  $  4 months, 1 week ago
                              Why are you still commenting as you said this post is not about Ayn Rands philosophy?
                              Why keep "embarrassing" your self.
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                              • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
                                The post and the hysteria supporting it are contrary to Ayn Rand's philosophy of reason and science and contrary to the purpose of this forum for intelligent discussion, which presumably people come here for. It doesn't have to be "about" Ayn Rand's philosophy.

                                The hysteria includes misrepresenting the Herald. All of it is an embarrassment to the forum. And now we see another conservative trying to morally intimidate us into going along with his misrepresentation of the Constitution because on the authority of claiming to be a "veteran". Rejecting that is not an "embarrassment".
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  • Posted by  $  Temlakos 4 months, 1 week ago
    Vaccines, particularly in certain combinations more dangerous even than the individual combined elements, do put someone on the Autism Spectrum. Measles doesn't have to kill; we can all strengthen our immune systems so that a bout of measles is no more serious than a common cold. Nobody is lying. And on the day doctors' orders have the force of law, on the penalty of death, something very wrong has happened to the interpretation of the Oath of Hippocrates.
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    • Posted by  $  4 months, 1 week ago
      I swear by Apollo the Healer, by Asclepius, by Hygieia, by Panacea, and by all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will carry out, according to my ability and judgment, this oath and this indenture.

      To hold my teacher in this art equal to my own parents; to make him partner in my livelihood; when he is in need of money to share mine with him; to consider his family as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they want to learn it, without fee or indenture; to impart precept, oral instruction, and all other instruction to my own sons, the sons of my teacher, and to indentured pupils who have taken the physician’s oath, but to nobody else.

      I will use treatment to help the sick according to my ability and judgment, but never with a view to injury and wrong-doing. Neither will I administer a poison to anybody when asked to do so, nor will I suggest such a course. Similarly I will not give to a woman a pessary to cause abortion. But I will keep pure and holy both my life and my art. I will not use the knife, not even, verily, on sufferers from stone, but I will give place to such as are craftsmen therein.

      Into whatsoever houses I enter, I will enter to help the sick, and I will abstain from all intentional wrong-doing and harm, especially from abusing the bodies of man or woman, bond or free. And whatsoever I shall see or hear in the course of my profession, as well as outside my profession in my intercourse with men, if it be what should not be published abroad, I will never divulge, holding such things to be holy secrets.
      Now if I carry out this oath, and break it not, may I gain for ever reputation among all men for my life and for my art; but if I transgress it and forswear myself, may the opposite befall me.[5]
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  • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
    This is supposed to be a forum for Ayn Rand's philosophy of reason, not anti-technology hysteria incapable of reading a simple newspaper editorial.

    The Boston Herald, which happens to be a conservative newspaper, not the "left", obviously concluded with the phrase "ought to be a hanging offense" as a metaphor to emphasize the seriousness of the phobia it denounced. Even in states with the death penalty for murder, "hanging" is no longer used, which ought to serve as a clue to those incapable of figuring it out on their own.

    The editorial was a well-reasoned article that did not advocate "government-run execution squads to MASS MURDER" anyone, which misrepresentation is hysterical stupidity beneath the level of the sensationalist National Enquirer -- as is the entire "world's top news source on natural health" linked to as a 'source' that is no better than the anti-medical science "Christian Science" sect.

    Please stop embarrassing "Galts Gulch Online" with this nonsense.
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    • Posted by  $  4 months, 1 week ago
      Ask the Gulch!
      Got a question about Objectivism? Ayn Rand? Politics? Life? Dinner? Or... anything else for that matter. The Gulch wants to hear it. Ask away.
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      • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
        As already explained to you, discussions here that are not about Objectivist philosophy are still expected to be rational, not the hysteria and false accusations of this thread, which are contrary to the purpose of the forum. It's for people interested in Ayn Rand's ideas, not a subjectivist free for all of paranoiac fantasy. Take it somewhere else.
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        • Posted by  $  4 months, 1 week ago
          Your subjective judgement is hypocritical.

          The hysteria? Kind of like your post

          Leftist (illegal?) anti-Trump immigrant threatens mass "casualties" (townhall.com)
          Posted by ewv 6 months, 1 week ago to Politics
          3 comments | Save | Ignore
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          • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
            The Boston Herald did not did not advocate "government-run execution squads to MASS MURDER". Rejecting the assertion as nonsensee not "subjective". They didn't say it. To promote such hysteria, let alone to continue to defend it, it is simply stupid. Take the nonsense and the evasive, snide personal insinuations somewhere else.
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            • Posted by  $  4 months, 1 week ago
              "These are the facts: Vaccines don’t cause autism. Measles can kill. And lying to vulnerable people about the health and safety of their children ought to be a hanging offense."
              http://www.bostonherald.com/opinion/e...
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              • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
                Your posts are non-responsive. The Boston Herald did not did not advocate "government-run execution squads to MASS MURDER". They did hot say that. It isn't true. Leading with an outrageous misrepresentation being used to gin up a frenzy by "Nature News" is not honest. It is even worse with its emotional manipulation.

                The Herald editorial concluded, as has been explained previously, with the phrase "ought to be a hanging offense" as a metaphor to emphasize the seriousness of the dangerous fad phobia it denounced. No sensible person believes anyone is advocating "hanging". Even in states with the death penalty for murder "hanging" is no longer used, which ought to serve as a clue to those incapable of figuring it out on their own, and it never did involve "government-run execution squads to MASS MURDER".

                The Herald did not did not advocate "government-run execution squads to MASS MURDER" and anyone can see that and the rest of the hysteria in this thread. Instead of acknowledging that you are defensively trying to turn it into a personal feud.
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                • Posted by  $  allosaur 4 months, 1 week ago
                  When I write, the corrupt Evil Hag belongs in jail, I mean it.
                  When I write, the Obamanation should be tried for treason (for a list of things!) and face what used to (Eddie Slovak/the Rosenbergs) come with that sort of a magnitude, I mean it.
                  Should I ever write something is a hanging offense, I will most certainly mean it.
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                  • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
                    That you would write anything differently in your own style, which is hardly literal itself, does not change the clear meaning of the editorial and what it clearly says and does not say.

                    The Herald did not did not say it advocates "government-run execution squads to MASS MURDER" and obviously does not want to "hang" people, despite the desperate attempts to misrepresent the clear meaning of the editorial. There is no excuse for the hysterical misrepresentation. Perhaps if the Herald editors had believed that their readers were too obtuse to understand the editorial they would have worded it differently, but beyond the fringes nothing helps. Sometimes obtuseness is deliberate.

                    The same clowns hysterically misrepresenting people on behalf of their emotional anti-science "cause" here are on a rage 'downvoting' the facts here in a fit of further lashing out. They lack objectivity, to say the least.
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                    • Posted by  $  allosaur 4 months, 1 week ago
                      "--ought to be a hanging offense" is the opinion of a Boston Herald editorial. A writer's name was not given. I didn't see "we don't necessarily support any writer's opinion" either. But why should there be? That was written by the Herald itself.
                      Glad you like my writing style.
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                      • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
                        There is no excuse for accusing the Herald of advocating "government-run execution squads to MASS MURDER" and it obviously does not want to "hang" people, despite the desperate attempts to deliberately misrepresent the clear meaning of the editorial.
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                        • Posted by  $  allosaur 4 months, 1 week ago
                          Whatever. It's still a free country ~so far.
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                          • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
                            Partly. But saving and restoring it will take rational ideas, not emotional outbursts.
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                            • Posted by  $  allosaur 4 months, 1 week ago
                              This country is ideologically split in half and lib threats are too dangerous to ignore.
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OBjk...
                              Don't give them an inch. Don't ignore or tolerate any "--ought to be a hanging offense" or any "--ought to go to jail" either.
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                              • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
                                I don't think it is split in half. There is a hard core cadre of ideological leftists and another small group of fervent "conservatives", with neither side very philosophical. Most people have mixed premises moving more to the left and statism all the time. A lot of them are frustrated with both parties but don't know what they are for other than a vague mixture of freedom and controls for welfare statism.

                                There are a lot of threats too dangerous to ignore, but not the ones made up like hysterical inflammatory false accusations of a newspaper claimed to advocate "government-run execution squads to MASS MURDER". That only serves to discredit those associated with it. Any sensible person attracted to Ayn Rand and coming here for more information who sees that as representative will only go off in another direction, writing off Ayn Rand supporters as another group of kooks.
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                                • Posted by  $  allosaur 4 months, 1 week ago
                                  I see what's bothering you. I also see what's bothering other Gulchers who came attracted by Ayn Rand's philosophy such as myself.
                                  Nevertheless, people on all sides just plain need to stop making insinuations that can be perceived as threats unless they are saying what they mean.
                                  That "hard core cadre of ideological leftists" being globalists definitely wants to see rest of the world obediently on their knees, imprisoned or dead. Whatever that editorial meant about about "a hanging offense," I'm certain leftists who read that just loved envisioning such in their evil indoctrinated sick heads.
                                  In this climate, the Boston Herald would have far been better off ending that editorial with something like "--ought to be marginalized as silly Chicken Littles" instead of anything that remotely suggested the stretching of necks, jailing or punishment in any form or fashion.
                                  So methinks someone needs to yell, "Hey, don't write that kinda crap!"
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                    • Posted by  $  4 months, 1 week ago
                      17 comments from you 21% of all comments. Apparently you find this post of interest
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                      • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
                        The hysterical dishonesty in this thread is an embarrassment to the forum. Counting comments does not prove interest in or support for the dishonesty and lack of objectivity their perpetrators refuse to retract.
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  • Posted by jdg 4 months, 1 week ago
    Making the lie a hanging offense is excessive. But I'm on board 100% with Dr. Jeremy Wakefield losing his license to practice medicine for spreading this lie. www.briandeer.com
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    • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
      No one wants the death penalty for the paranoia. Read the editorial in context and the more serious comments here rather than taking the latest round of hysteria at face value.
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    • Posted by Abaco 4 months, 1 week ago
      I have met with Andrew Wakefield face-to-face to discuss some of the data I have acquired over the years. Read what Kittyhawk says here, FWIW.

      Wakefield's a good man. He's certainly not a liar. Listen to his speeches yourself and REALLY focus on the words. What has been reported on him is so far off that it'd be laughable if he weren't such a good guy.
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    • Posted by Kittyhawk 4 months, 1 week ago
      I'd highly recommend reading the actual paper which Dr. Andrew Wakefield was disciplined for before you pass judgment on him. Note that 13 different doctors were involved in examining and treating the patients described in the case study which is his alleged "crime." http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lan...

      Further note that the second of the three doctors who fought the judgment that the article represented professional misconduct (Prof. John Walker-Smith, the supervisor who approved and oversaw the children's treatment and the publication of article) ultimately won and was cleared of any wrongdoing: http://healthimpactnews.com/2012/brit...

      If you listen to Dr. Wakefield speak, I think you'll find him to be a very intelligent, caring, and skilled doctor. He strikes me as similar to an Ayn Rand character: a talented, productive person who has been unfairly persecuted by corrupt government officials. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6DuB...

      If your curiosity has been whetted and you want to know more about Wakefield's perspective through this ordeal, his autobiographical book Callous Disregard is enlightening: http://www.callous-disregard.com/
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  • Posted by  $  allosaur 4 months, 1 week ago
    What kind of people wants a government that kills people for disagreeing with them?
    I'll answer that with another question.
    Why did I stock up on guns and ammo when I thought a corrupt socialist Evil Hag would be my POTUS?
    Evil Hag is the name given to my modified AR15 looking 9mm carbine with two 30-round clips.
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  • Posted by  $  nickursis 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No argument here, you are correct in those points. Dobrien just posted (in the GG email) a thing where an organic farm is being forced to use sprays to control weeds. It is a different county from a discussion I just listened to on the radio about an identical issue in another county. While I believe in individual rights, I also believe if you impact others you are responsible too, and that is a similar type of situation where people get emotional because the govt is forcing people to do something. It speaks to the need to weigh each event and see who is getting hurt in it, who is impacting who and is all means being utilized to alleviate it. There is a lot more to things than just the "bad guys", as sometimes there are no "bad guys".
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    • Posted by ewv 3 months, 3 weeks ago
      If someone physically impacts others, such as by spreading disease and infecting them, that is a matter of individual rights. The proper principles are figured out rationally, not by emotional outbursts and false accusations of "mass murder" and "government run execution squads". The more serious the question, the more important it is to think and communicate rationally.
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  • Posted by Abaco 4 months, 1 week ago
    “There is a fundamental difference between religion, which is based on authority, and science, which is based on observation and reason. Science will win because it works.”
    ― Stephen Hawking

    How does the term "hanging offense" fit in here, my fellow Objectivists?
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    • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
      The Boston Herald editorial is pro medical science. The term "hanging offense", which is literally obsolete everywhere in the country, is a metaphor for the seriousness of spreading anti-science hysteria against vaccines saving billions of lives.
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  • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago in reply to this comment.
    People who aren't obtuse have no trouble understanding the editorial and that it did not advocate "government-run execution squads to MASS MURDER". That nonsense is the insistent lead of the thread. There is no excuse for it, let alone for the perpetrators to refuse to acknowledge that. This isn't about alleged incompetent writing style by the editors of the Boston Herald.
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    • Posted by  $  allosaur 4 months, 1 week ago
      Following the dotted line, this appears to be addressed to Dobrien.
      So I'm having trouble understanding how it could wind up in my email this morning.
      Or perhaps it just goes to show I'm too obtuse to give a happy damn what you think.
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      • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
        There are no "dotted lines" to follow. It was a response to your comment at https://www.galtsgulchonline.com/post... ignoring the bald-faced lie and insinuating that it was the fault of the writing style of the Boston Herald as somehow politically incorrect in "this environment". The editorial did not advocate "government execution squads for MASS MURDER" as Dobrien's post falsely stated. It did not say that. It did not remotely say that. It did not "insinuate" that. It is a hysterical lie. If you don't "give a happy damn" what anyone else thinks then don't read it and don't subscribe to update alerts, which is why they appear in your email inbox.
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        • Posted by  $  allosaur 4 months, 1 week ago
          Oh, and so your response lands way over here.
          Whatever. I no longer care.
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeRDB...
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          • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
            The post "landing way over here" is the standard formatting for multiple responses that would otherwise lead to excessive indentation and columns too narrow to read effectively. When that would happen the forum places subsequent responses back to the left margin of the page, starting over with the indentation and with forward and backward links so the train of discussion is easily followed. That is why it provides links labelled "replied" and "in reply to this comment".

            If you don't care about the anti-vaxxer's hysterical lying then don't read the posts about it.
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            • Posted by  $  allosaur 4 months, 1 week ago
              Thanks for the heads up. Pretty sure I never rode indentations that deep.
              I'll ignore that rant at the end.
              You see, when I'm called names, it pulls an off switch in my little dino head.
              It's something I picked up from working 21 years at a state prison.
              Well, bye.
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  • Posted by JohnJMulhall 4 months, 1 week ago
    Well... this is the Boston Herald... no paragon of Truth in it's own right. The very same people who said that if you break one of the PC fluorescent lights in your home to cut out the portion of the run where the shards and dust landed and take it to a toxic waste dump - do not put it into a plastic bag and into your normal garbage. They have not identified the causes of autism for us. They have not even acknowledged that the several dozen doses of vaccines (I think it is up to 95 by age 12) that are 'gang' injected into our children might be overwhelming their little bodies immune systems. In "the old days" we got the measles and got over it. Were as many children ruined for life as now (with autism, etc.)? That's a real question - I am not a researcher who knows. Drug companies make BILLIONS of dollars on these drugs and cannot be sued for the 'side effects'. This whole thing needs to be re-thought as we dump ObamaCare and get the Feds out of the medical business. Maybe, what needs to be done is to have a group of dedicated people monitor the drug company's support of federal legislators and make that part of the up-coming campaigns. Use Saul Alinsky's tactics on them :-))
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    • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
      The Boston Herald did not say that breaking compact fluorescent lights turns your home into a toxic waste dump. It correctly reported several years ago, as did several other sources, that the Maine Dept of Environmental Protection responded to a query by a Maine homeowner that it would cost thousands of dollars for 'professionals' to clean up the effects of their broken bulb.

      The rest of the anti-vaccine hysteria is no better than that misrepresentation of the Herald.
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  • Posted by Rocky012 4 months, 1 week ago
    Cigarette smoking is not harmful to human health. Artificial sweeteners are safe to eat. DDT is safe and effective. GM foods pose no threat to humans. Roundup is a God-send for weed control. Vaccines with mercury have not been proven harmful. It's the same old big money protecting it's bottom line.
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  • Posted by  $  puzzlelady 4 months, 1 week ago
    A "hanging offense" may have been an editorial hyperbole. It doesn't say the government should run execution squads. We're having enough controversy over methods of execution already. Maybe the Herald is just nostalgic for good old-fashioned lynch mobs. "Execution squads" is an over-dramatized extrapolation by the Natural News "Health Ranger", who proceeds to then escalate to calling it terror threat and genocide. And he labels the Herald editors insane and psychopathic. Oh, wait, he's just trying to peddle his snake oil.
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    • Posted by Kittyhawk 4 months, 1 week ago
      Interestingly, the Boston Herald article isn't the first to call for violence against those who question vaccines. https://www.thevaccinereaction.org/20... I think both articles are part of a concerted effort to demonize those who have legitimate questions about vaccine safety and/or efficacy. I think it's also part of a larger strategy to "divide and conquer" the masses.
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      • -1
        Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
        The Herald did not "call for violence against those who question vaccines".
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        • Posted by Kittyhawk 4 months, 1 week ago
          So you would call hanging non-violent? You could argue, as puzzlelady did, that you believe the writer(s) meant the threat figuratively rather than literally, but the actual words do advocate government-imposed death as the punishment for disagreeing with the opinions of mainstream doctors and bureaucrats regarding vaccines. Saying there wasn't a call for violence ignores the plain words of the article, and it excuses the extreme and vitriolic attitude of the mainstream media in defending the "powers that be" from critics.

          Do we not have a First Amendment right to voice unpopular opinions without fear of government interference and punishment (not to mention a pre-existing natural right to the same)? This rag is advocating government violation of the Constitution - punishing speech with death - and you're defending it. Maybe it was just a joke, or an exaggeration for effect, but I don't find it funny. I find it sinister. Especially considering it's the second time a paper has published this view.
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          • Posted by  $  4 months, 1 week ago
            Thanks Kittyhawk,
            The intent of the editorial board is clear. The state science institute has determined what risk to your child is appropriate for the greater good. The editors are indicating how we all should think about it.
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            • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
              The Herald is not a "state science institute" promoting "execution squads" and "mass murder". The frantic deliberately incendiary hysteria of your false accusations continues to feed on itself, though accusations of supporting "execution squads" and "mass murder" are hard to beat. If you can get people to swallow that, then the rest of the hysteria is apparently seen as easier to put over.

              The editors understand that billions of lives have been saved by modern preventative medicine, including billions of individual children, despite occasional side effects that occur in all medicine. It isn't a plot to "risk your child for the greater good" versus the false alternative of Christian Science abandonment of medical science.

              Every editorial "indicates" what the writers would like people to think -- that is what editorials are for, as is most writing. It is not a conspiracy for thought control to stop people from realizing that "alien Vaccines are coming for us", cynically suppressing The Truth with "execution squads".
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          • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
            The Herald obviously did not support "hanging" people, obvious except to those who are deliberately obtuse. The "activists" strain to make it mean other than what the article says because they want to be threatened with "violence" as a useful excuse to scream "Eek! eek!" and to gin up diversionary PR, knowing fully well that they are safe, then parlay that into the ridiculous demonizing accusations of "execution squads" and "mass murder", along with "violating the Constitution" and "punishing speech with death". You rationalize one ridiculous accusation on top of another building a frantic house of cards. It is hysterical and dishonest.

            The campus minister at the college I went to once said, "if the Jews weren't persecuted they would lose their identity". Religions have their own identities with or without their cycles of mutual persecution, but despite the inter-religious warfare of his antisemitism, he certainly captured the nature of a common fringe mentality.

            Anyone can see how stupid this is, but this nonsense should not be taken seriously or condoned in any way on an Ayn Rand forum where people come to find out more about Ayn Rand's ideas and may not know any better about her and the intellectual movement she started -- which has nothing to do with paranoia, conspiracy theories, emotional outbursts, anarchy or the rest of the junk that we find promoted here.
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  • Posted by  $  nickursis 4 months, 2 weeks ago
    Strange how, had it been in a "conservative" news outlet, it would have been screaming, protesting, fire them all news, yet this was just treated as something to be proud of......
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    • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
      The Boston Herald is conservative.
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      • Posted by  $  nickursis 4 months, 1 week ago
        I have a hard time believing anything in Massachusetts is conservative....just seems counter intuitive...
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        • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
          "Anything"? No state is all liberal.
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          • Posted by  $  nickursis 4 months, 1 week ago
            I agree, no state is "all liberal", however the press and the politicians can be, and you find the unwashed masses in the rural districts exasperated and outvoted by the plebeians who know so much more than they (city dwellers) such that you cannot tell that. The entire left coast is a perfect example of such mob rule...
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            • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
              Not everyone writing or speaking in any state is liberal. The assumption that the Boston Herald is liberal was false, and so was the hysterical misrepresentation of the editorial beginning in the original post starting the thread.
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              • Posted by  $  nickursis 4 months, 1 week ago
                My point of view was that I have seen Mass and Boston as a liberal leaning state and city. Just my observation. However, their initial article is just as flawed, in that they claim "research has proven this is not true" without so much as quoting such research. That is the same reporting we see throughout the media, claims with no basis in fact provided. When I see that, I have to assume it is to fit an agenda.The article in the post is also leaning in one direction, as I did not find anywhere's where they BH editorial mentioned killing anyone, beyond the issue of vaccines not administered could be construed as such. My personal observation regarding the use of mercury is it should never be used for anything (it is in a lot of other things beyond vaccines), but any heavy metal, especially with the characteristics of Mercury, is obviously not for ingestion in any form. Substitution should not be that hard, you can get dental fillings with no mercury in them, I even had the dentists provide me the contents of the last filling material they stuck in my gob, because of that. Although I didn't have them rip any out, figuring any mercury has already leached out years ago...
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                • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
                  Massachusetts and Boston are to the left of "liberal"; it does not follow that the Boston Herald is. It is not.

                  The brief editorial, which is not a research article requiring citations, does not call "for government-run execution squads to MASS MURDER naturopaths, scientists and journalists who oppose mercury in immunizations" or the rest of the hysterical accusations in this thread, and the editors are not "Eliz.Warren dolts".

                  You can do what you like regarding even the tiniest amounts of Mercury, and all medical procedures entail risk. The hysteria in this thread and in the "natural news" it linked to are not science or even rational discussion.
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                  • Posted by  $  nickursis 4 months, 1 week ago
                    I can agree with your point here, although I do not have enough familiarity to say what the Heralds politics are, so I would defer to your better judgement. I was not impressed with the whole tone of the posted article, just on the basis of the way it was written was too slanted in a specific point with little real data, sounded more like a political piece.
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                    • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
                      You wrote "Strange how, had it been in a "conservative" news outlet, it would have been screaming, protesting, fire them all news, yet this was just treated as something to be proud of......"

                      If you don't know then why did you write that about the Herald? By the way, syndicated radio talk-show host Howie Carr writes a column for it, and the famous economist Warren Brookes got his start there and wrote many excellent columns there for years. It's one of the few publications sympathetic with keeping taxes down.

                      As for the "posted article" you referred to, I don't know which article you mean. The Herald editorial denouncing the anti-vaccine fad (and the Hollywood celebrities) or the "natural news" hysteria linked to.
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                      • Posted by  $  nickursis 4 months, 1 week ago
                        That is one reason I did not, and still do not, consider the Herald a "conservative" news http://outlet.My point being that the media will hype any topic, and make it sound like the end of the world, with the same bias and skew seen on both sides of an issue. Truth be told, there is an embarrassing lack of facts in the herald article and the Natural News one was indeed a skew off the rails in favor of the anti vaccine position. While you cited 2 people who write for it, I cannot attest to either ones political bias. I think that is where this becomes a Gulchable topic, in that it is a good example of how political bias is used in the media to manipulate a position for either side, and when you control the media in abundance (as I believe the liberal/progressive people do) the resulting loss of both freedom, and serious, considered thought leads to more government power. In this case the Natural News is an obvious backlash against what they consider to be some form of government/business stranglehold on a portion of healthcare, while the Herald is citing the use of "bad" information as a tool against people. Yet take the exact article and move it to one side or the other and you will see a backlash in a lot of media. Conservative objections are routinely taken to be evil, nasty lies, while Progressive opinion, with few, if any facts, is taken as gospel.
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                        • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
                          The Boston Herald is not a consistent supporter of individualism, as most conservatives are not, let alone pro-Ayn Rand, but is well known as conservative-leaning in stark contrast to most of the rest in New England.

                          Howie Carr is well known in New England. Warren Brooks died prematurely in the 1990s, but is still remembered. One of the last series he published in the Herald was an excellent series of articles on property rights, including exposing the anti-private property rights corruption of The Nature Conservancy nationally and a major US Fish & Wildlife Service/land trust hit job against a private landowner in Maine. I talked to him several times when I was first starting out in this battle, providing him with a lot of good written documentation that he used very well. It's a shame we lost him shortly after that.

                          The recent Herald editorial on the anti-vaccine fad was very brief, and as an editorial was of course opinion but not dishonestly manipulative like so much is. It wasn't controversial with much of anyone other than a few perpetually frenzied kooks out of the region like the Natural News website. It didn't otherwise generate a backlash and would not have no matter what side it was published from.

                          Being for or against vaccines and modern medical technology is not particularly conservative or liberal, but does show up as one of the stock emotional movement outbursts. Taking a flaky anti-vaccine position got conservative Michelle Bachmann in a lot of trouble, embarrassing and discrediting her politically.

                          Ironically, Warren Brooks died of simple pneumonia because he was a follower of Christian Scientists and refused medical treatment that would have saved him.
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                          • Posted by  $  nickursis 4 months, 1 week ago
                            Your last 2 points are very valid, and I have seen local cases of both similar nature, both politically and in bad ends. I will take you points on the Herald simply because I am not familiar with their outlet, and you sound like you are very familiar. Thank you for the background information. I agree the vaccine issue is not particularly political, however there is a buried sub thread as to government involvement, regulation, and lack of clear disclosure I have seen others concerned with, and it does get people who have had issues with medical materials fired up sometimes.
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                            • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
                              There is no excuse for the "anti-vaxxers" to be "fired up" into an irrational emotional frenzy, hysterically and falsely accusing an editorial in a relatively conservative newspaper of advocating "government execution squads and MASS MURDER". No normal reader can confuse their hysteria against vaccinations in this thread and in the "Natural News" page it linked to with a "sub thread" of anything rational. Rational thought must be explicitly so, not presumed for hysterics, and does not appear here in defense of the "anti-vaxxers".
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                              • Posted by  $  nickursis 4 months ago
                                Not arguing it, but consider: There are many things in this world that various people, businesses and organizations, do not want "unsavory" facts to be known. That leads people to get very emotionally tied into some topic, and that is true for all sides of debates today. Since I have also gotten excited about specific topics, I am not inclined to castigate people who do. Your points may be very true and valid, but some people may not be ready to hear them. So, the best you can hope for is to make your logical, reasoned points and see what happens.
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                                • Posted by ewv 4 months ago
                                  Emotional reactions as such are not bad, but they are not a substitute for rational, honest thought and communication. Thought and understanding require objectivity and personal honesty. Fantasy, paranoia, rationalizing and emotional thinking are not tools of understanding.

                                  The whole thread was based on a hysterical false incendiary accusation lifted from a kook website that its proponents still refuse to acknowledge. I don't expect to get through to those who choose to act like that. No one can because everyone must decide for himself whether to be rational and learn enough to understand what that requires.

                                  But anyone can see what they are doing, including the frenzied "downvotes" of simple statements of fact, the emotional, evasive "responses" and further slinging of accusations, and that this is rejected by rational people. They're destroying their own credibility by continuing like this but hopefully not the integrity of the forum.

                                  We can only hope that others not so familiar with Ayn Rand can realize that her ideas are not compatible with such activist promotions and hysteria from the fads of anarchists, anti-vaxxers, Birthers, Birchers, Con-cons, Ron Paulers, Trump idolatry, Truthers, or whatever else that mentality starts pushing.
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  • Posted by Abaco 4 months, 1 week ago
    I'll share this thought here. In this realm of vaccines and developmental disorders I've seen things that I won't even mention. At first, I was shocked. Very shocked. In that early time of confusion I read Atlas Shrugged. Objectivism leapt from the pages with such clarity. It was as though what I was experiencing around me bolstered the philosophy. In short, what I've seen in this topic has made me a strong Objectivist. For that, I'm really grateful.

    Rather than get into things that won't be resolved in this medium I'll say that when you look at topics like this, go with Objectivism. What would an Objectivist say about hanging people who don't agree? What would an Objectivist say about forced medical treatment? What might Ayn Rand say about studies being done in "science institutes" on products when the manufacturers are paying for those studies? Don't waste your efforts trying to answer me here. Ask yourself.
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    • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
      No one has advocated "hanging people who don't agree". No one is hung today. Objectivism is a philosophy. It doesn't mean anti-medical science or the movement that is anti-vaccines which prevent serious and communicable diseases.

      Ayn Rand strongly supported science, and for that reason opposed 'state science institutes' as well as forcing companies to support them. She did not oppose vaccination and supported quarantines for those who would spread a communicable disease without them. She did not support conspiracy theories.
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      • Posted by Abaco 4 months, 1 week ago
        You actually think internet forums are the place to argue for your position. You are breaking your back trying to soften the take on this editorial, too. Your position is clear. Knock yourself out. But, understand that you may not know the whole story on this. You could be wrong. So could I, as far as that goes. If you favor force in some cases, think that studies in government agencies that are funded by the producers of the products are going to result in good science...well, I have a bridge to sell you.
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        • Posted by ewv 4 months, 1 week ago
          The editorial did not advocate "government execution squads for MASS MURDER" (capitalization in original at the top of this thread). It didn't say it. There is nothing to "soften". Your further misrepresentations insinuating what else I think so you can sell "bridges" only add to the dishonest evasions. The editorial did not advocate "government execution squads for MASS MURDER" and Ayn Rand was not an anti-vaxxer".
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  • Posted by Herb7734 4 months, 1 week ago
    Just add this to the ever growing list of things from the left, which if followed, will lead to grief, despair, and death.
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    • Posted by Abaco 4 months, 1 week ago
      When Winston asks O'Brien what the purpose of the torture is, O'Brian says, "The torture is the purpose."

      And, that is what we're talking about here. Kill. Break up families. Hang. Maim.
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    • Posted by  $  4 months, 1 week ago
      Imagine an incredibly powerful, wealthy person who secretly prospers from conflict, disease and war learns that certain sound frequencies (those easily divisible by two, signifying opposition) create conflict, discord and disharmony while those divisible by three (signifying balance, polity, reconciliation, harmony) produce symmetry, and visually harmonic, pleasing structures.

      Now imagine that he has the power to establish the tuning standard of all musical instruments throughout the Western World.

      Imagine that he bases the entire scale of musical artistic creation upon a frequency which would skew vibrations towards discord.

      It sounds like science fiction. Yet this is exactly what transpired in September 1939 when Rockefeller (Illuminati) financial interests dictated that the standard tuning for the note of "A" above middle C would henceforth be said to vibrate at precisely 440 cycles per second.

      This unnatural standard tuning frequency, removed from the symmetry of sacred vibrations and overtones, has declared war on the subconscious mind of Western Man.

      The standard tuning fork, which is set to vibrate the note "A" above middle C at 440 cycles per second, is based upon a frequency only divisible by two rather than three, which means that all of the musical notes both above and below it are affected.

      Despite the apparent "sweet music" a symphony orchestra can produce, when all instruments are tuned based on the A=440Hz key frequency, they are covert weapons no matter what "music" they may be playing.

      These destructive frequencies entrain the thoughts towards disruption, disharmony, disunity. Additionally, they also stimulate the controlling organ of the body -- the brain -- into disharmonious resonance, which ultimately creates disease and war. - See more at: https://www.henrymakow.com/musicalsca...
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      • Posted by  $  MikeMarotta 4 months ago
        Nonsense.
        "Despite such confusion, A = 440 Hz is the only official standard and is widely used around the world. Many orchestras in the United Kingdom adhere to this standard as concert pitch.[15] In the United States some orchestras use A = 440 Hz, while others, such as the New York Philharmonic use A = 442 Hz.[16] The latter is also often used as a tuning frequency in Europe,[3] especially in Denmark, France, Hungary, Italy, Norway and Switzerland.[17] Nearly all modern symphony orchestras in Germany and Austria and many in other countries in continental Europe (such as Russia, Sweden and Spain) tune to A = 443 Hz.[15][17]The Boston Symphony Orchestra tunes to A = 441 Hz." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert...
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        • Posted by  $  4 months ago
          “International standard pitch,” in which the A above “middle” C (a' in the British system of pitch designation, A4 in the American system) is tuned to 440 Hz, was adopted in the Western world for concert music only in the twentieth century, after a long history of unstandardized pitch.

          In Europe prior to the twentieth century, pitch varied widely from place to place and from century to century. How widely, and how erratically, is evident from studies of organs (either historic instruments that had not been modified when tests were made, or replicas of historic instruments), early treatises that mention pitch, and historic tuning forks, To take Germany prior to 1600 as an example, organ pitch there is thought to have varied from a high of A=567 Hz for the first simple pipe organs of the Middle Ages to a low of A=377 Hz for the early modern German organ around 1511.1 But not even at one particular time in one region of a country was standardization deemed necessary. It seems that composers and performers were accustomed to taking local variations in the tuning of organs and other keyboard instruments into account, either by writing a score in more than one key, or by transposing at sight – thereby accommodating the fixed pitch ranges of other instruments and the singers in the ensemble.Difficulties were naturally increased as scores and musicians traveled further. Two eighteenth-century international musicians, Handel and Mozart, are known to have favoured specific pitch levels — (again expressed in modern terms) A=423 Hz in the case of Handel and A=422 Hz in the case of Mozart, i.e. approximately one-half semitone lower than A=440 Hz.3The nineteenth century saw a trend in Europe and North American toward the inexorable raising of the pitch level of instruments in performances. Alexander Ellis attributed this to two nineteenth-century developments: larger venues, and new developments in instrument making. As compared to Haydn or Mozart’s day, public concerts in the nineteenth century were played before larger audiences, often in concert halls and opera houses larger than existed in previous times. These large rooms could accommodate – even required – high, brilliant pitches at climaxes, effects that could be achieved when playing eighteenth-century scores by employing instruments pitched higher than those that had performed the same scores in smaller rooms. For reasons such as this, nineteenth-century makers of wind instrument for band and orchestra sought to garner a niche in the market by developing and selling instruments pitched slightly higher so as to sound more brilliant than the competition’s. Meanwhile, improvements to the strings of stringed instruments meant that these could be stretched tighter, i.e., tuned higher, to match the tuning of the newly acquired wind instruments of, say, an opera house.most of history there were varying customary pitches employed depending on the musical style of the times, but a truly organized, accepted “gold standard” did not exist. In the mid-20th century this all changed. In 1939, Reich Master of Propaganda in Nazi Germany Joseph Goebbels was the first to push for the 440 Hz pitch to be standardized internationally– he succeeded in doing so only within Germany and, briefly, in England.

          Prior to this, the American music industry had reached an informal standard of 440 Hz in 1926 for instrument manufacturing. In 1936, the American Standards Association recommended that the A above middle C be tuned to 440 Hz. This standard was taken up by the International Organization for Standardization in 1955. Although still not universally accepted, it has served since then as the audio frequency reference for the calibration of acoustic equipment and the tuning of pianos, violins, and other musical instruments. [2]

          Prominent musician and manufacturer J.C. Deagan, who also campaigned for the 440 Hz standard, designed the 440 Hz-based war chimes that were used for World war II propaganda news reels. Interestingly, these same chimes are also used in the call signs for the NBC television network.

          It should be noted that there exists an infinite number of frequencies out there — some see the standardization of 440 Hz as simply arbitrary, whereas others feel it’s downright sinister. Why attach so much animosity to a number? The answer lies in the work of two music-related scientific fields: Cymatics and psychoacoustics. Cymatics is the study of sound and vibration as they pertain to the physical plane.
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          • Posted by  $  MikeMarotta 4 months ago
            Thanks for the reply. The down vote was not mine, disagree though I did and do. I appreciate the more reasonable essay above. Josef Goebbels and David Rockefeller are less interesting. I was going to post from the Principia Discordia and Illuminatus! on the matter of chaos versus control -- in fact also a theme from the Get Smart tv shows. The Holy Trinity would be soothing to you, but the duality of the Manichaean Heresy, Arianism, and Zoroaster would unsettle you. The Sumerians had a three-faced god. The Greeks specifically divided the world among Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades, though the other Indo-Euroepans apparently did not.

            I will also point out that other languages such as Russian have singular, dual, and plural whereas we have only singular and plural. Does that cause you to be discordant? Some languages have three genders: male, female, neuter. Others have four, one with no gender at, not neuter. But Hebrew has only two: Male and Female. Thus, their god Yahweh was male, when, theologically, capital-G God should probably be without sex or gender. Are Jews naturally discordant because they have only two genders, not three?

            The 440 Hz... Thanks again for the "high, bright, and loud" explanation. I point out that no one could measure well and easily until the oscilloscope was invented.
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  • -2
    Posted by evlwhtguy 4 months, 1 week ago
    Hey...I have an Idea.....why don't all these Somalians got the hell back where they came from.....where their kids can get immunized with an AK 47!...that is the immunization process of choice there isn't it?
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