Ancient carvings show comet hit Earth and triggered mini ice age

Posted by $ nickursis 7 years ago to Science
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This has been called "pseudo science " in the past (the idea of a comet breaking up and hitting earth, causing the Younger Dryas Ice Age) and a lot of the proponets who had proof over the lat 100 years or so were pilloried for making such a "wild" accusation, yet there were so many facts available. There is a link to the paper above this, in case you do not want to go through the web page.

DOI: 10.5281/zenodo.400780
SOURCE URL: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2128512-ancient-carvings-show-comet-hit-earth-and-triggered-mini-ice-age/


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  • Posted by Herb7734 6 years, 12 months ago
    Gobekli Tepe has been puzzling archaeologists for many years. This is just one more puzzle that the site presents. It is one of the "Impossible" places that are found in Central and South America, India, Africa and other places on earth that no one seems to be able to understand as to how they were even created or why. All of the more imaginative explanations for their existence seems to be dismissed as either fiction or pseudo-science. Just remember it was only a little over 100 years ago that it was generally believed that anything going faster than the speed of sound would not survive..
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    • Posted by $ 6 years, 12 months ago
      Better yet, "scientists" produced incontrovertible "proof" it was completely impossible too fly, until the Wright brothers proved them wrong. Change the conditions, change the truth, so very true in so many things today that people think are "absolute".
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  • Posted by $ jlc 7 years ago
    We really, as a culture, need to do a better job of handling scientific disagreement. Continental drift, Lamarkism/Lysencoism, blank slate/genetic inheritance, pre-Clovis settlement of the Americas...all of these issues have been politicized and one side or the other declared anathema.

    People have to learn that everything is a hypothesis; nothing is settled. Change is normal in science and disagreements need to be seen as part of the usual process.

    I have read about the astronomical figures in Gobekli Tepe and think that is possible, but certainly not clear. And the cometary event is far from 'confirmed.

    Jan
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    • Posted by $ 7 years ago
      Jan, the interpretation of the Gobekli Tepe pillars is pretty concrete, in that there is definitely a provable set of facts that match up to the paper's theories. The biggest issue is that it takes what has been enshrined in archeology as the "definitive narrative" and takes it, and all the bulk of scientists who have supported and claimed it as "fact", and tosses it away. This has been a major issue in Egyptology where there are clear indications that the Sphinx is at least 12,000 years old, based on scientific data from weathering analysis, and yet they still say it was made by Khufu and his dynasty in about 2500BC. Because any other facts would mean they would have to reinterpret 100 years of "settled science". If there is a periodic cometary debris field the Earth goes through, it would be nice if someone had kindly pointed it out so we could find it and maybe do something while the doing is good.
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      • Posted by $ jlc 7 years ago
        This is a discussion that is interesting. To the best of my knowledge, the pyramids were built in the 3rd millennium BC. (http://www.aeraweb.org/projects/how-o...) My argument is not based on 19th C assumptions, but on 20th C radiocarbon dating. I will readily agree that the pyramids could be a few hundred years older, but not 10K years older. If you have any sources for scientific dating that shows the pyramids are millennia older, I would like to take a look at it.

        Gheorghiu's interpretation of the carvings at Gobekli Tepe is an interesting hypothesis - but it is only that. Schmidt, the original excavator of the site, does not endorse Gheorghiu's interpretation.

        Jan
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        • Posted by Dobrien 7 years ago
          Hi Jan ,
          If you are referring to: "river runs through it.....
          ...Gheorghiu it was published in 2015 Schmidt does not endorse it because he is dead as of 7/20/2014.
          Re: the link you reference is far from convincing
          It says nothing of how material was gathered to age the great pyramid. The fact that Dr Zahi Hawass was involved is to me similar to Al Gore funding a legitimate Global Cimate report ,not a chance! Hawass is an ass and he is the Czar of Egyptian antiquities he is biased. He has shut down archeological projects to protect his narrative. These sites once built are often used by later generations. IE.could the material have been later generations. Stone cannot be carbon dated.
          I don't know the age of the great pyramid nor do I know the purpose but I am certain they were not built as mausoleums and to attribute it to Khuffu lacks sufficient evidence.
          In the America's when I was in school America became inhabited by people crossing the land bridge in Alaska to Russia aprx 1500 to 2000 years ago now we know they were off by at least 25000 years. Now it is a hard push to get things aged properly and most folks who discovered evidence that is inconsistent with the mainstreams
          dating find themselves ridiculed ,discredited and maligned. If that was not such a recurring theme I would believe the leaders of these fields want to seek the truth.
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        • Posted by $ 7 years ago
          Jan, one of the primary basis for the claim is that if you look at the pyramids (the main ones on Gaza), all of them have a tunnel that goes up to the top, and they all align to Orion's belt. However, the only time that they all lined up so that they matched in relative position, and reflected the belt in their position on earth and to each other, is approx 12K years ago. Otherwise there is always a variation. If you would like an alternative interpretation of a lot of the "accepted" history, look up Graham Hancock's "Magicians of the Gods". He makes a very convincing case, and it all ties together with Gobekli Tepe as well as a rather astounding discovery that many major megalithic sites through out the world. all have this alignment built into them. I am watching UFO Files, The Lost Evidence" on AHC channel, and they have just been discussing many of these topics and some new information on artifacts released by the Mexican government. They are also very, very cautious with their statements and assumptions, but the examples they use are very interesting.
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          • Posted by $ jlc 7 years ago
            I agree that we tend to underestimate how advanced ancient civilizations were, falsely equating technology with intelligence, and these conceptions are frequently being overturned eg the 200K year old ocher mines in Africa and the copper ax of the Iceman. But it does not matter what lines up with what: If radioisotope dating limits the building to 4th C BC, then we have to include that datum.

            Jan
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            • Posted by $ 7 years ago
              Jan, there is truth in Dobs comment below, and also there is a new technique of dating stone, where they vaporize part of it and then look as specific isotopes and date from that, I will find the article somewhere's, I even think we have discussed it here at some point. But it has yielded some different information. Anything done with carbon is limited simply because you have to make some assumptions that it was placed there at the time of the building, and use, which may not be valid. One reason they are very careful when excavating, as the layer position of the material is critical to setting it's position in time.
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          • Posted by Dobrien 7 years ago
            Hi Nickursis,
            The shafts in the great pyramid line up with stars in the Orion constellation the first is Sirius, then Al Nitka, and Kochab. The three pyramids line up with Orion's Belt and the size correlates to the three stars sizes and the line up matches the sky at about 10,000bc.
            As many know the night sky shifts as the the earth wobbles on its axis. The shift is one degree every seventy two years. An entire constellation is replaced every 2160 years. This is called the obliquity of the eliptic. Every 25,920 years the sky is a perfect match. This info is encoded in the many megaliths around the planet. I find it astonishing that they knew these things.
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        • Posted by Dobrien 7 years ago
          Hi Jan ,
          With all due respect, the link listed above lacks sufficient evidence to conclude the dating of the great pyramid is correct. Stone cannot be radiocarbon dated . Organic material is what can be dated.Where was this material obtained to date. Sites such as these are used by successive generations. The biggest problem I have is it is a study that Dr. Zahi Hawass was involved with. He is a biased ass! As the Csar of Egyptian antiquities
          He is very biased. He has thrown out or shutdown "digs" that don't conform to his narrative. He refuses to have dialogs with opposing views.
          I would have the same opinion of a paper proving global warming that Al Gore was involved in.
          Schmidt does not endorse? Of course he didn't.
          Dragos Gheorghiu "River runs through it.... Was published in 2015 . Klaus Schmidt died 7/20/2014
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      • Posted by Dobrien 7 years ago
        The Sphinx was buried in sand up until it was partially excavated in1858 then less than one hundred years ago in 1926. The statute cannot erode when buried. It was also known to have been
        Cleared from sand during Thutmosis IV when the Stella was erected.The erosion took place when the rain fell and that was around 8500bc to 7000bc

        This is politicized in a sense by the" czar" of Egyptology Dr. Zahi Hawass who controls the ability in Egypt to study the past record. He damns Dr. Robert Schoch and anyone else it seems that have fresh fact based ideas. Today with modern day knowledge and state of the art equipment vs 100 year old guesses that in many cases become status quo. A case in point the pyramids in Egypt. It is stated as fact they were built as tombs for pharaoh.
        Yet not one mummy was ever found in a pyramid in Egypt. That is a pretty fundamental flaw in the foundation of Egyptian history.
        New ideas historically have been shunned by the hierarchy going back many centuries.
        The tendency to dismiss ancient historical stories
        Only to find more truth than fiction is a reoccurring theme.
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        • Posted by $ 7 years ago
          Indeed, and the various cycles of clearing and burying was one reason they did the sampling at various locations to try to incorporate that issue into the data, which is more proof of the fact people with alternative theories that match facts are just as interested in the truth, and the mainstream are, and why they should give all view equal weight until it is conclusively proven. A lot of "conclusively" to day is based on political maneuvers made in the 1900's and 20th century to appease certain funding sources and university positions.
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          • Posted by Dobrien 7 years ago
            In that time period little if anything was known about the obliquity of the eliptic , or the progression of the equinoxes yet the ancient's knew all about it and it was fundamental in many megalithic places.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 7 years ago
    Reminds me of the horrid response made by those representing "accepted" science (including the popular pseudo-scientist Carl Sagan) to the theories of Velikovsky.
    This is not to say that Velikovsky was correct, but that so-called scientists attacked him like liberal statists instead of rationally discussing the theories.

    The particular theory in this article indicates another conclusion to me. If the probability of this sort of collision between comets and planets could be estimated with any reliability it could help explain the thus-far observed low density of advanced technology space faring species in the vicinity.
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    • Posted by $ 7 years ago
      Exactly, couple this with the recent discussion on the outer ring of "planetoids" and large objects in the Oort cloud, and if every system has such, maybe intelligent life is just a cosmic lottery where only 1 in 93 million get the jackpot and survive.
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      • Posted by $ blarman 6 years, 12 months ago
        Those are pretty good odds considering all the factors in play: distance from sun, orbital velocity, rotational speed, size, molten iron core, silicate crust, plentiful liquid water, presence of gas giant in same system (asteroid/comet attractor) just to start...
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    • Posted by lrshultis 6 years, 12 months ago
      For one who, appears to have no great education in science, you are a bit hard on Carl Sagan. Though I did not agree sometimes with him on climate, he certainly was not a pseudo-scientist and wrote against such science that sometimes turns up here in the Gulch.
      Too much attempted trashing of conservation of energy and angular momentum by cometary orbits and collisions with them, along with electromagnetic affects causing orbital changes and rotation changes.
      Mythology and religious writings, certainly, should not be given high scientific value.
      Also, everyone, learn the difference between a scientific theory and a hypothesis and what it takes to substantiate them.
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      • Posted by $ 6 years, 12 months ago
        Freedom has a point Carl Sagan was a member of the cabal the roasted Velikovsky. While his theory was a bit off the wall, he did have a decent collection of facts and an alternate explanation for certain data that others simply rejected because it was not "mainstream". Egyptology suffered from the same type of stolid "concervatisim" that had no room for error or adjustment, which is obviously a foundational premise of science. Sometimes you just are not right, or exactly right. Debate and investigation is always good. Look at Continental Drift, which was laughed at originally because it was "extreme". Icons invariably develop rigidity of thought.
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        • Posted by lrshultis 6 years, 12 months ago
          Velikovsky had a hypothesis which needed to be tested over and over with evidence before it would become a theory. continental drift was a hypothesis until enough evidence was found for it to become a theory and thus become accepted. Sagan and others could not accept something mainly based on interpretation of myths and extreme speculation. He, by definition, was not a pseudo-scientist who use myth and unsubstantiated speculations as their proofs. Over time as evidence increases, scientists, sometimes needing older generations to die out, get closer toward the truth, unlike those who use myth and other religious faith directed arguments do.
          Every human brain, due to biases in programing and experiences, can, without a herculean effort, become rigidly full of mental myths and create the beliefs of knowing the truth. That is the reason for needing an actual scientific process to eventually get closer to the truth about objective reality.
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          • Posted by $ 6 years, 12 months ago
            But, are there not many cases where myth was indeed based in fact? Every culture has a flood myth, and it has taken hundreds of years of gathering data just to get to where the mainstream accepts there was some form of flood. The last Ice Age alone may have left the racial memory. My view is science must take into account all possible sources of data without bias, and then use them to corroborate each other as they may.
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            • Posted by lrshultis 6 years, 12 months ago
              I would say that it is the job of a mythologist to determine whether there is any truth to a myth. If he finds some truth, he should publish his evidence and expect that some individuals will accept the evidence. Like any science, there is no guarantee that the new knowledge will be accepted. It may take years for acceptance and for mental states to change for that acceptance.
              To say that there may be racial memories, might be a stretch. Memories would have to be stored in DNA or transfered through the transfer of maternal DNA. There is little evidence for acquired knowledge to be transfered through genes.
              Or do you just mean knowledge passed down through myth in human groups. Of course, stories of great floods and disasters will be told for generations but tend to die out fairly soon like stories my father told me about great snows with snow to the second floor and need to get out the up stairs windows. The trouble with myth is that one can begin to believe that the world is actually like the events in the stories and like fairies in England are real for some.
              Don't be too hard on scientists. The job is not easy and with the exponential growth of knowledge and new measurement methods it is surprising that science can stay so stable. But with any individual, it is in the eye of the beholder what can be decided upon as acceptable.
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  • Posted by Dobrien 7 years ago
    Thanks Nickursis for your many informative posts.
    Gobekli tepe has destroyed much of the mainstream narrative regarding human civilization.
    Mesopotania is not the cradle of civilization.
    In fact civilization (organized societies are more than twice as old as most recite. The site has been slowly excavated only 10% or so.
    It is also a true cover up, as they uncover and discover it is quickly reburied. One of the reburied t shape megaliths had beautiful carvings that is said to depict the current alignment in the galaxy as we are located today similar to many ancient's
    Focus on this era. Perhaps they were pointing to a potential repeat of that event. With so many possible cataclysms everyone should be living life like there is no tomorrow.
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    • Posted by $ 7 years ago
      Exactly, and is included in the work of Graham Hancock and his books. He also detailed how many scientists of the 20th century had documented all the material they used in this study and came to the conclusin, but were ridiculed because they could not produce some kind of hard artifact that "said so", but all the logic and hard evidence that does exist can be said to support the theory. It seems there is enough data to move past "hypothesis" to more of a "fact". Which means the cometary fragments they say may be coming back, which is also one of the items others have also talked about, Enke being one of the best candidates. Funny that Enke is almost like Enkie, who is one of the primary gods mentioned through out the ancient texts.
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