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One reason I don't use Windows 10

Posted by  $  blarman 5 months, 2 weeks ago to Business
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I have enough problems with the NSA spying, but corporations too? And if we remember, this was a forced upgrade for many people (I applied a registry hack to my Windows 7 PC's to avoid the forced upgrade).
SOURCE URL: http://www.computerworld.com/article/3187603/security/microsoft-reveals-what-data-windows-10-collects-from-you.html?idg_eid=c61c15fc07eb50267f0225a1297014db&email_SHA1_lc=d4ef73d63a2a8f6d44f8d891fd772ac3fba9dd49&cid=cw_nlt_computerworld_data_management_2017-04-12


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  • Posted by freedomforall 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    Completely agree with your comments, blarman. I would still be using XP if it was practical since MSFT has fubared the interface repeatedly since XP. W7 can be maniputated to almost be as easy to use as XP, but it is still a PITA on a daily basis. Had an email from a friend who updated to W10 and it has somehow "honked up" his music library and he hasn't been able to put Humpty back together yet, and he has been a technical guru for 25 years.
    I do not buy software with the goal of helping the software seller, and that is apparently what MSFT requires now. 25 years ago I paid for early releases so I could help clients, but then I decided that I didn't want to do MSFT's job for them. MSFT has been siphoning consulting time from the best and brightest without compensating them for decades. Now they want to do it to every customer without their informed consent.
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    • Posted by Steven-Wells 5 months, 1 week ago
      I always liked the simplicity and usefulness of the Windows XP interface. The Windows 7 standard interface would have driven me nuts if not for Classic Shell, a freeware interface to the Start Menu, Windows Explorer, and Internet Explorer. It is extremely customizable with many settings available to make things happier. I am willing to forgo my strict adherence to mathematics to rate Classic Shell an 11 on a 0–10 scale.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 5 months, 1 week ago
        I use Classic Shell, too, and agree it is wonderful. It's almost good enough to make Win7 as good as XP;^) Something in explorer(classic) still drops the folder list to the bottom every time windows starts, and the selected folder is somewhere off the screen, so I have to scroll up and find it. Just another Win7 waste of my time.
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        • Posted by Steven-Wells 5 months, 1 week ago
          It's the Microsoft / Win7 idea that ALL users are idiots, therefore they won't be able to find or use their files unless all users are forced to see an expanded view of Libraries on top, followed by Homegroup, and an expanded view of all User content before showing the Computer contents. I suppose that works if you [MS generic you, not freedomforall you] don’t know or care about where your data is actually stored in a disorganized single-drive laptop or palmtop.

          That is an irritant for me, too, though possibly less than for your situation. As a major geek, I'm running a LARGE screen, both physically at 48" and resolution at UHD 3840×2160, so even huge folder lists tend to remain accessibly on screen. There are registry hacks to diminish the existence of Libraries and Homegroup.

          I hate that User is above my Computer drives list, because I highly organize my content on many physical drives with rigorous folder structures. Just my Star Trek themed drive layout shows my method and madness:
          A Archer and B Bashir –thumb drives, C Picard – system and installed software, D Riker – computer hardware / software repository / configuration / font groups / swap file, E Data – the data, F Worf – multimedia repo, G La Forge – camera offload repo, H Enterprise – RAID 1 backup.
          I've got many other named thumb drives, SDHC chips, microSDHC, XQD, &c. as: Defiant, Janeway, Dax, Phlox, Yar, O'Brien, Neelix, Quark, and Weyoun. Kirk and Spock are my laptop drives. Locutus, Lore, and Trelane are in an old SCSI box stashed in my Jeffries Tube (attic crawlspace).
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          • Posted by freedomforall 5 months, 1 week ago
            I do understand your irritation, S-W. I never use any of the Win7 designed folders either. I guess your eyes (and likely your monitor) are better than mine;^) I use 2560x1440 on my 42" most of the time because its easier than trying to read 3840x2160. I need my prescription changed, too. I like your naming theme, too!
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  • Posted by  $  allosaur 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    I'm in heaven still using Seven.
    Didn't care about the scare.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke...
    Recall reading somewhere else I can hang onto Windows 7 all the way until 2020.
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    • Posted by  $  CBJ 5 months, 2 weeks ago
      I bought a used Windows 7 laptop specifically to avoid Windows 10. Paid $140 and installed free non-Microsoft software to handle my everyday computing needs. Everything works fine and I plan to continue using it even past 2020.
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      • Posted by  $  5 months, 2 weeks ago
        I still have a Windows XP machine at home (gasp!). I'm perfectly aware of the "security" concerns, but that's the machine my kids use for homework and play games on (hundreds - see Big Fish Games). And I'm a big fan of Apache OpenOffice. It's free and I'm not paying a monthly fee - nor having to have actual OS services running in the background so it will function (Office 365). And once you lock down the firewall, install an ad blocker on all the web browsers and install a couple of free security tools like Malware Bytes and ClamWin, you've done quite a bit.
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      • Posted by  $  allosaur 5 months, 2 weeks ago
        Interesting. Do believe I'll see if I can get past 2020 and how far after that. Why not?
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        • Posted by  $  nickursis 5 months, 2 weeks ago
          Dino, you will be able to run it forever, unless some major change occurs to web mechanics or formats. You just will not get "security updates" past 2020. Since I already turned off ALL updates from the MicroSocialist empire, I am as it will be, and have no issues. MS stuff is so vulnerable it is a ProfChuck says "you might as well sell your parrot to the town gossip". I rely on Kaspersky Internet Security, and it seems to be pretty good. Although PCMatic on Fox network says they have 100% protection. But a good security software package is all you need, the OS will always work.
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    It all depends on what you want your computer to do. Windows is and always has been a general purpose operating system. As such it tries to be all things to all people. If your primary use of a computer is web browsing, email, and games windows is fine. However, if you need to do some serious data processing that requires maximum utilization of computer power Windows just gets in the way. This is because there are many, sometimes hundreds, of background processes that are competing for CPU time. Just run the resource monitor and you will see what I mean. As a result any serious data processing task gets thrown into the mix and is time shared along with a bunch of stuff that you probably don't care about. I have 8 computers that I use for scientific data analysis. They are networked multiprocessor systems, 4 core or better, and work with databases that are gigabytes in size. To try to do that kind of work with a "universal" operating system simply is impractical. I keep one system running Windows 7 Professional and I use it for, as I said, web browsing, email and such. For serious computing I use LINUX. It's far more efficient when it comes to utilizing processor power and allows the operator to select which support routines are running. Windows us useful in its own way but for real scientific work it's just a toy. I wouldn't put any sensitive information on a Windows machine, that would be like selling your parrot to the town gossip.
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    • Posted by  $  5 months, 2 weeks ago
      Agreed. There is a reason embedded Linux is used in most home devices and why Android (Google's version of Linux) is the dominant mobile OS (Apple iOS is second with Windows a very distant third).
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  • Posted by ChuckyBob 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    I'm still on W7 and not having any problems. You have to be careful though as MS has an "update" to 7 that does the same spying that 10 does. As far as sending secure emails, my first python project was to create a random shift cipher encoder/decoder. I built it so that all the parameters could be changed including adding an interleaved option. I imagine the NSA could figure it out eventually, but it would be unteresting to put it to the test.
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    • Posted by  $  5 months, 2 weeks ago
      Which update is it?
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      • Posted by ChuckyBob 5 months, 2 weeks ago
        I don't remember, but I'm sure that can be found by an internet search. I just turned updates off to avoid it.
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        • Posted by  $  5 months, 2 weeks ago
          You can disable specific updates - you just have to know which one.
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          • Posted by ChuckyBob 5 months, 2 weeks ago
            I know, I did that to the W10 update. I've just been too lazy to look up which one to disable.
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            • Posted by  $  5 months, 2 weeks ago
              Here's a complete script that uninstalls the questionable ones:

              @echo off
              echo Uninstalling KB3075249 (telemetry for Win7/8.1)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3075249 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3080149 (telemetry for Win7/8.1)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3080149 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3021917 (telemetry for Win7)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3021917 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3022345 (telemetry)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3022345 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3068708 (telemetry)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3068708 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3044374 (Get Windows 10 for Win8.1)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3044374 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3035583 (Get Windows 10 for Win7sp1/8.1)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3035583 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB2990214 (Get Windows 10 for Win7)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:2990214 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB2952664 (Get Windows 10 assistant)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:2952664 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3075853 (update for "Windows Update" on Win8.1/Server 2012R2)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3075853 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3065987 (update for "Windows Update" on Win7/Server 2008R2)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3065987 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3050265 (update for "Windows Update" on Win7)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3050265 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB971033 (license validation)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:971033 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB2902907 (description not available)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:2902907 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB2976987 (description not available)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:2976987 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB2976978 (compactibility update for Windows 8.1)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:2976978 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3102810 (update for "Windows Update")
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3102810 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3112343 (Windows Update Client for Windows 7)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3112343 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3135445 (Windows Update Client for Windows 7)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3135445 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3123862 (Windows Update Client for Windows 7)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3123862 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3081954 (Telemetry Update for Windows 7)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3081954 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3139929 (Get Windows 10 update for MSIE)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3139929 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3138612 (Windows Update Client for Windows 7)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3138612 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3138615 (Windows Update Client for Windows 8.1)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3138615 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3150513 (Compactibility Update (another GWX) for Windows 7/8.1)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3150513 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3133977 (buggy update)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3133977 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3139923 (Another GWX for Windows 7/8.1)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3139923 /quiet /norestart
              echo Uninstalling KB3173040 (Another GWX for Windows 7/8.1)
              start /w wusa.exe /uninstall /kb:3173040 /quiet /norestart
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  • Posted by  $  DrZarkov99 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    I've been a Mac user since they first came out. I had to use Windows machines at work, and found them shaky and glitch-ridden. I don't put anything on any cloud, and I use the Apple Time Machine backup system to a local disk. I also use a VPN system, and on occasion, I use the Tor browser. I worked with the intelligence agencies too long to trust any public communication.
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  • Posted by starznbarz 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    Workhorse PC came with 7, had to install a program that allowed all updates except Win10. Work laptop promptly went to IT guy to remove vista and install 7 pro - then the do not install program to keep it that way. Little travel laptop had 10 and was engineered so 7 would not install, found a old (2006)military grade Toughbook, had 7 pro installed and had the IT guy max out the insides so it`s up to date and sold the little laptop for what the Toughbook cost. I have a old PC in the back office that runs XP, that ought to hold me for a while. Microsoft can pack sand.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    Me too.I'm glad I'm not alone. I have W7 and I was bothered with upgrade requests at no charge for W10 which I never did. It was FREE and listed all the wonderful new features. I'd like to say that my motivation was the came as blarman's but in truth, I just am lazy and didn't want to learn a new operating system. Now, of course, I can claim a really good motivation for remaining with W7.
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  • Posted by  $  nickursis 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    What is more galling, is there are some people who still have metered data, or even have connections using their cellphones, that MS is stealing to get the information they have no right to. The other thing is their idea that W10 is the last OS that will be produced, and that it will just be upgraded, revised, rebuilt, as needed, and they are going to drift into the "software as service(SAS) model where you pay a monthly fee to have it (and still steal your info).For an OS that is going on 3 years old, to just have them cough up the controls to limit their theft, as well as their shoving the updates down to W8 and W7 that do the same thing (and not telling anyone they were doing it) shows just how much they shifted under their new leader to a company that is just looking for a racket to milk. Just as Google made their mark on selling all your aggregate info, MS is looking to duplicate it. It iwll lead to some genius producing a non MS OS that will be easy enough to use the unwashed masses can convert. There are several existing options out there, if you want to learn a new way to do it.
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  • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    Some how I escaped the forced upgrade, even though just not excepting windows upgrades was not a sure way of avoiding it.
    I thank my lucky stars...but truth be told, I get way too many unsolicited advertisements, enticements and bull crap already with windows 8.
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  • Posted by  $  Stormi 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    I dread ever having to upgrade to 10! I bought a new PC, just before the forced 10 upgrades, so I could keep 7 running. As a stockholder in Microsoft, I wrote and told them the loss of Media Player was a deal breakers, and no way I would update. They tried 47 times to force a download of 10, which I blocked, until I found the update, (mislabeled) which was the gateway for the update, and I uninstalled it. I live happily with my Win. 7, and even have a Vista in perfect working order which together allow me to do pretty much whatever 10 won't let me do. I think the whole 10 experience has been a case of poor deisgn, not listening to real users, and bad marketing ploys. I have had people who either fell for it or were victim to the upgrades who have called and asked why they can't access photo or music libraries, why they can't play a CD, and I tell them because you have Win 10, the biggest ripoff from Microsoft yet. They blew it when they bought that Vista was awful, when in fact, if you stuck with it it would do whatever you wanted. Then Win 7 was fine, but they wanted more money, so they forced junk on consumers.
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    • Posted by  $  5 months, 2 weeks ago
      The major problem with Vista is that Microsoft changed the entire driver model only six months before they released to the public but after they had already released a driver model to developers. It was the reason why the first year there was no antivirus and many devices (printers, etc.) didn't work either. It was an absolute debacle. The company I was working for at the time was developing driver software for testing new printers and we plainly advised HP not to upgrade any of the testing infrastructure PC's to Windows Vista and their own engineers agreed.
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      • Posted by  $  Stormi 5 months, 2 weeks ago
        I was working for a company which still had XP at the time Visa came out. I got a new system with Vista, and of course had issue with the dastardly built in virus system, which reguarlly went to war with Norton, never knowing which would survive each round. Once I chained up the Microsoft anti-virus all was well, except for those endless messages saying it would not do something. I found the best route was to ignore them and it would do what you wanted, including the printers. After a few months most of tht stuff cleared up, although Defender emains in chains. It is still the best as far as far as media player related libraty. It has been dependabel, forgiving, and a great back up system. I took very quickly to my other system, using Win 7 with Office 10, althought the media player is a bit more controlling at times, but it is there and works to create great photo or music libraries. I did not see any need for Win. 10, esp. after so many hated the picture icon, touchy feely, crazy Win 8. Apparently, most epoe are holding on to Win 7, as my mother's cousin Charlton Heston said of guns, "until they pry it form my cold dead hands." Or until someone comes up with a system as good or better, which, based on 10, is not likely to be Microsoft!
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        • Posted by  $  nickursis 5 months, 2 weeks ago
          It will probably be some version of Linux that has been tweaked to run most MS software. There are some versions out there that essentially mimic W7 in looks and behavior.
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          • Posted by  $  5 months, 2 weeks ago
            If you use WINE (a Windows emulator) most of it will work. Office won't because it wants some native services and such and most games won't (excepting some that run using the STEAM engine) so don't be too hopeful about those. The nice thing is that for your productivity apps there is a Linux alternative for just about everything and the current installers are very friendly.
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            • Posted by  $  TomB666 5 months, 1 week ago
              Yes to both Nickursis and Blarman. My wife and I both use a version of Ubuntu called Mint that looks and acts very much like Windows and with the WINE program installed we can run all but one of our old windows programs. (WINE will not run our TomTom GPS update program.) Ubuntu includes an Office program (LibreOffice) that will open Windows Office files and you can work with them like you had opened them in Win Office.

              We chose to go with Linux (and there are many versions of it available free) because the alternative was Apple’s OS. I did not want to spend the money for Apple and I have more time then money so I took the time to figure out Linux. As a side benefit, we are able to use 10 plus year old computers. Once you unload the W stuff the processors work much faster and you are not getting bogged down with constant updates and other notices that slow down your system. For example I have a 8 year old Toshiba notebook that had gotten so slow it was painful to try to use. I replaced the hard drive to rid it of everything Windows and installed Linux Mint and its better then it was new!

              I use Thunderbird, as I have for years, to manage my 10 email accounts. My wife does her email with AOL as she has done for years as well. We have found no need to change our favorite programs. We use Firefox and Chrome for browsers.
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              • Posted by freedomforall 5 months, 1 week ago
                If you want to update that old laptop, have a look on Ebay for Dell e6420, e6320, e6430, and e6330 models. I have 4 of them (bought used on Ebay) and they are great machines. They have a tri-metal construction that makes them very durable, and there are lots of them coming off of leases available for $100 to $200. Some even have 2nd/3rd gen i7 4 core mobile cpus that compare well with most of the 6th gen mobile i7s. They are easy to replace drives and memory, too. (The lower prices if you install your own OS like Linux;^)
                Compared to buying new, these are dirt cheap and (if you buy carefully) do everything just as well as new ones.
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  • Posted by Mitch 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    The key word here is alternatives, everyone apart from Linux does this. Read your Gmail privacy agreement, they actually state that they own the e-mails you receive. Google is by far the worst in this regards, this is why I don’t have a Gmail or an Android device. Also, I don’t use Google for obvious reasons. I know that Apple does the same but I wouldn’t own a IOS device just on principal.

    http://www.salon.com/2014/02/05/4_way...

    I feel Microsoft handles this data in the most transparent way possible while giving you options to opt out of the data collection as much as possible. Google isn’t doing that at all and I wouldn’t know what Apple is up to in this department.

    So, as alternatives go, you don’t have many… I say MS is trying to be responsible at least.
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    • Posted by  $  5 months, 2 weeks ago
      I'd love the alternative that simply says Microsoft gets nothing - which is what it was before Windows 10. THAT is the alternative I want. Same for everyone else. An opt-IN policy if anything - not a forced policy you can't opt OUT of.
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    • Posted by  $  nickursis 5 months, 2 weeks ago
      I would tend to agree but Google got a exception from the "internet Privacy Law" they just repealed, when it was passed, so they had full bore access to everything they could steal from you, and sold that (like processed cheese) to customers. That is why you can go to a website, look at an item, then go to Yahoo and find you get ads for that exact item. Need to be careful what items you look at...it's all about money, and I do not think MS gives a rats a@@ about your privacy or data, just making money off it. W10 may actually be theft, because it records every key you use, so passwords and usernames are also in their possession, and when they get hacked, it will be ugly, depending on how they store the information.
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  • Posted by BaritoneGary 5 months, 1 week ago
    One of my laptops suddenly had 10 installed. I contacted MS, and they said that they had a glitch, and some 40,000 W7 OS automatically got upgraded. I complained. They did nothing. Installed Linux Zorin on that laptop the day that it happened. Been running ever since. If you haven't tried a derivation of Linux, it's a great time to try. I recommend Zorin. Easy to use and is supported. Screw MS!
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  • Posted by DeanStriker 5 months, 1 week ago
    Altho' this post is way off the Gulch objective, anyone can see that technological "advances" have taken the digital world impossibly far from the security/privacy environment we all scream for most every day.
    The many excellent comments on this post seem a clear indication that Big Brother has won, taking charge by instituting both hardware and software models which are designed to reduce humanity to total bewilderment and jibberish.
    I dislike the world I see ahead, and will be glad to leave it when my projected last decade is past.
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  • Posted by  $  DriveTrain 5 months, 1 week ago
    I've got three systems using independently-purchased Windows 7 OS sets specifically for the purpose, and a fourth using its own 7 upgrade OS (I purchased it as a Vista system a couple months prior to the Win7 release, so the upgrade was included.)

    With news that Microsoft has partnered with Intel and AMD to produce processor chips that will not work with anything prior to Orwellware 10 (with Intel this begins with the "Skylake" processor family,) it's clear that MS plans on making it impossible for people to retain data privacy. Which also means purchasing a "spare" computer that still has a 5th-generation chipset in it ("Broadwell" or earlier,) just for the inevitable hardware failure over time. No word on whether systems with the 6th-gen "Skylake" processor will suddenly stop working when MS ceases "support" for Windows 7 and 8. I'd been thinking about springing for a new laptop, yet another separately-purchased Windows 7 OS, and a blank HD to swap in for the purpose (preinstalled Windows 10 will not allow you to revert to a previous OS, obviously) - but it's getting difficult to find unused systems that still have the old chipset. Maybe a Skylake-equipped system will still function normally, post-support-cutoff, except for the "This processor is vulnerable without the latest OS" popups? 'Not sure if I want to take that risk - $1k+ is a lot of money to spend on a future paperweight.

    With an OS that is essentially ineradicable spyware, including a keylogger, contemplate the prospect of your bank account numbers, any and every password you type, any and all personal correspondence you do, any manuscript you may be working on (if you're a writer) - going to a warren of cubicles at Microsoft Inc. in Redmond, WA.

    Do you trust a tech firm's employees to leave the contents of your computer alone? Your bank account? Your passwords? I don't. To the people who say "Well, you can turn those features off in the Security preferences," I have a standard analogy: If you bought a house and the seller told you "I"m retaining a full set of keys, but if you tell me not to, I promise I won't come in," would you still plunk down the money for it?

    Something else to keep in mind is that even if you're using pre-10 operating systems, Windows Update installations contain routines that essentially enable those prior versions to do the same kind of spying as Windows 10.

    The only option at this point - short of going to Linux, which as "open source" implies a whole different set of hacking vulnerabilities - is to save any and all important data to external media rather than to your HD, to leave Windows Update disabled entirely from the outset, and to perform full drive-wipes and OS reinstalls every month or two (to periodically obliterate any standard-issue criminals' hackware that may have taken advantage of your non-updated system,) with your daily-use system set up as a Guest account rather than Admin.

    No idea whether Apple is any better, but I could never stand the Apple UI anyway, or the overt Leftwing advocacy of the company itself.

    Another question I have - which I suppose implies a government conspiracy - but I'm wondering why the computer industry, which is arguably one of the largest industries in existence today, only has three (3) different brands of operating system. One would think that for an industry that massive, there would be at least as many and as vast a variety of operating system manufacturers as there are for each of: athletic shoes, microbrewed beers, automobile tires, potato chips, ballpoint pens, polo shirts, cellphones, sodas, hotel chains, anti-perspirants, hand tools, insurance policies... or any other consumer item you can name. I suppose that would mean a massive additional workload for the boys and girls at the NSA - 'lots easier when there are only three to deal with.

    So we have: exactly three.
    Veddy, veddy odd, Keptin.

    A recent article on Orwellware 10:
    http://www.computerworld.com/article/...
    .
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    • Posted by freedomforall 5 months, 1 week ago
      If you want a not quite new but very capable laptop, have a look on Ebay for Dell e6420, e6320, e6430, and e6330 models. I have 4 of them (bought used on Ebay) and they are great machines. They have a tri-metal construction that makes them very durable, and there are lots of them coming off of leases available for $100 to $200. Some even have 2nd/3rd gen i7 4 core mobile cpus that compare well with most of the 6th gen mobile i7s. They are easy to replace drives and memory, too. (The lower prices if you install your own OS like Linux or have a DVD with win7 ;^) Most of these will have a Win7 Pro license tag and you can still download Win7 online for free to install with the license.
      Compared to buying new, these are dirt cheap and (if you buy carefully) do everything just as well as new ones. (The 6x30 models are 3rd gen cpus with USB3. The 6x20 models are 2nd gen cpus with USB2.) I am not selling any on Ebay at this time, but may do so later;^)
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      • Posted by  $  DriveTrain 5 months, 1 week ago
        Thanks FFA - I'm a big fan of Dell's XPS laptops 'cause the "infinity" screen with the razor-thin bezel makes them ridiculously small and they're as thin as anything Apple makes - but I'll shop for these as spares. The downside of "thin" is that you need a dongle for pretty much everything a thicker laptop typically had on board as standard equipment, a situation hilariously spoofed by some guy on Univision (Warning: do not, under any circumstances, drink any liquid while watching this, unless you want your sinuses really, really clean):
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxhGX...
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