How to think about Vladimir Putin

Posted by $ blarman 7 years ago to News
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An interesting difference of opinion to what we see in the news every day. Your thoughts?
SOURCE URL: https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/think-vladimir-putin/


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  • Posted by freedomforall 7 years ago
    Thanks for posting this, blarman.
    Very interesting analysis.
    If I had to choose between Hitlery or Putin, I'd choose Putin.
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    • Posted by $ 7 years ago
      "If I had to choose between Hitlery or Putin, I'd choose Putin."

      No question.
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      • Posted by $ allosaur 7 years ago
        While reading the article, I imagined Godfather Putin including "Let's make Russia great again" in a speech.
        Stating she would carry on with the ruinous globalist and econazi policies of the now O That Bad Penny, $hillary aka the Evil Hag, as I prefer to call Hitlery, I'm certain such policies had much to do with bloated bribes disguised as international donations eagerly accepted by the Clinton Crime Cartel~oops~I meant the Clinton Foundation where I read that 6% of such funds actually helped somebody in a bad way.
        Yeah, like the disaster support money that went poof in Haiti.
        Whoa! Proofreading. What did I just write? "--such funds actually helped somebody in a bad way?"
        Is that a Freudian slip? Me dino gonna leave that just the way I originally wrote it. It's interesting.
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  • Posted by strugatsky 7 years ago
    Ladies and Gentlemen, dear members of the Gulch,

    I am quite surprised, not so much by the errors of Christopher Caldwell in his Imprimis piece on Putin, but more so by the general agreement with him by this distinguished audience. First, let me put Mr. Caldwell into a proper perspective. Harvard educated, writer for several left-wing publications in addition to being a senior editor of the Weekly Standard, Mr. Caldwell appears to be somewhat confused as which camp he wants to belong to. Wanting to be an intellectual and possessing logic, yet unwilling to break away from the Progressive Intellectual establishment, he tries to be on the fence, as evidenced by his other articles where he criticizes Obama, but very carefully, never touching the basis of Obama's socialist evil..

    Now, closer to the subject on hand – Putin and Russia. The article has numerous factual errors, which I can list, but that would make my comments rather boring and long-winded. OK, I'll list a few – such as his claim that Russia has recently been frequently humiliated, robbed and misled (as in, by whom? Unless he means by its own ruling class...), or that the country was defenseless back in 2000 (never mind the largest nuclear arsenal in the world backed by a huge army (admittedly weaker than before) and the largest landmass), or that he "disciplined his country's plutocrats" – well, he kind of did – there were multiple mafias and multiple bosses – now there is one Mafia and one Boss. Swallowing Yukos was a symbol of the One Mafia. If one is to be intellectually honest, what should he say about Putin's grab of the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine, or a piece of Georgia? Oh, yes, he reined in Chechnya – really? The Islamic State of Chechnya is today an essentially independent region where slavery (real, hardcore Islamic slavery) is alive and well, with Sharia and their own military. No, of course American "intellectuals" do not like to talk about any other slavery but the American slavery. And finally, Mr. Caldwell sounds very sympathetic to Putin's regret of the former "republics" breaking away – never mind that those were brutally conquered countries that were seized, annexed and sometimes almost exterminated by Russia (czarist or communist, either way).

    But the interesting issue here is trying to understand American Intellectuals' view of Putin's Russia. On the one hand, they like what they see – a strong State, autocratic rule with the Party as being always right. The Intellectuals' dream come true – whether it is achieved through communism, socialism or "democratic socialism(!!)" - the Party always wins and in order to be at the feeding troth the Intellectual just needs to join the Party. On the other hand, there is the natural tension between similar systems competing for the leadership role. This is the basis of the Communists hating the Nazis and the Nazis hating the Communists. This is the reason the Democrats hate Trump and Trump hates the Democrats. So, we have this article here, by Mr. Caldwell, that is simultaneously full of sympathy and criticism of Putin, while basing the reasoning for both on perverted facts and twisted logic.
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    • Posted by $ 7 years ago
      The reason I posted this was not to put Putin on a pedestal, but to post an alternative viewpoint and discussion material. Does not one wonder why the left-wing media are attempting to cast Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin as coming from the same mold and yet both being tyrants? All we hear in the left-wing media is this story. The problem is that the left-wing media is always totally biased and more often dead wrong than even partially right. So an article that runs counter to this narrative is (IMHO) one worth investigating. It may be - as you say - totally devoid of fact.

      I don't think anyone here is attempting to promote Putin's motives as intellectually valid or that the man himself is an advocate of liberty and personal rights. But I think that it may equally be as wrong to paint him as a dictator/tyrant given the situation. I do not put Mr. Putin as a saint, but the author makes several interesting observations and forwards an alternative line of thinking to Mr. Putin's motives which deserve at least some semblance of investigation.

      Don't be afraid to post your reasons in detail here. To me, the politics between nations depends much on history and background and to attempt to gloss over or over-simplify does an injustice to impartiality.
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      • Posted by strugatsky 7 years ago
        The MSM "newscasts" are appropriately called by the MSM itself as "shows." Which they are - TASS-style, but more entertaining. More exactly, they should be called propaganda shows. As to Caldwell, my reading of him shows a confused pseudo-intellectual (one who has read and studied a lot, but incapable of independent, logical reasoning), and his article displays the confusion. Of course, some things he says are true - for example, that Putin is acting in his and his country's best interests. But so does everyone else (except Obama, who clearly acted with intentional malice toward the US). But of your question as to the reason for the Left-wing media's (or the Left pseudo-intellectuals) fascination with Putin, it is my opinion that they project onto him what they wish for themselves - unlimited power of "their" elites, unlimited feeding at the government troth, government enforcement of their "morality" and elimination of the opposition by any means - a Liberal/Progressive/Leftist/Elitist Paradise.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 7 years ago
    Hello,

    I read this earlier today (I get the snail mail version) and have to say its pathetic that this needs to be spelled out for people.

    First, I do not in any way trust the Russians, former Soviets. Second, I do trust that the Russians, like the Soviets, will always act in their best interests, something I respect. Third, I'm happy to see that there is again someone in the White House finally understand chess.

    All external nations are not us, they are the competition and/or enemies. Its high time we started putting our interests ahead of everyone else.
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  • Posted by straightlinelogic 7 years ago
    Attempting to understand a foreign culture or a point of view other than the officially approved "Yay, Yay, USA" will undoubtedly put you on some sort of US government list. I salute your effort, it's quite necessary, but the mind reels at how the overwhelming majority of Americans won't even question government propaganda, much less explore other points of view. And then they ask questions like: Why do they hate us so much?
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 7 years ago
    Regards the "Russian hacking," consider this: the intelligence agencies are not the neutral, non-political entities they claim to be. Their secrecy makes their political motives easier to hide. As one who spent some time dealing with the DIA, CIA, and NSA, I can inform the Gulch that Machiavellian games are constantly in play within the agencies. and are used to influence, exploit, and sabotage other agencies, the White House, and Congress.

    The CIA, as one example, has a program called UMBRAGE, which enables them to leave an encrypted digital trail they can tie to any source. It has been used in international dealings to make it appear that Russia and China have attempted to interfere in financial markets. The question is whether or not the agency decided to use that tool against the incoming Trump administration by making it look like he gained his office via an unsavory connection to Putin.
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  • Posted by GaryL 7 years ago
    Putin does for his country what his country wants of him. I don't much like the man but I do respect him in many instances, certainly not all. I can think of many other leaders and many right here in our own political environment who are a great deal more ruthless and way less trustworthy. As a country we need not like or trust another countries leaders in order to get along with them in numerous dealings. For some strange reason we are able to get along with the Saudis however if it were not for oil they would be an equally distrusted enemy. Those who are without sin are welcome to cast the first stones but keep the stones away from US!
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    • Posted by $ 7 years ago
      Almost every other nation in the world is at odds with us in some manner. The EU competes with us for business and wants to install a one-world government with socialism at its base. Russia competes with us militarily and philosophically for world power. China competes with us for manufacturing and wants to take our place as world leader. North Korea and Iran seek to push themselves on the rest of the world by pursuing nuclear weapons. The Saudis back religious terrorists. I'm looking down the list and at most what we have with other countries are tolerable allies!
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  • Posted by Temlakos 7 years ago
    As I thought. Vladimir Putin is a quintessential Russian but is not a Communist. He did more than save his own country. He's the absolutely essential counterweight to the same intellectual oligarchs who threaten our freedom, just as they threatened his country's sovereignty.
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    • Posted by roneida 7 years ago
      Temlakos.. You've been reading my mail. I was impressed with the insight the author has and the close similarity of President Trump and President Putin. They are both survivors and LEADERS.. Both probably have warts and black marks on their past but most politicians are very suspect...they live in dangerous environments and probably have very few people they can trust. I would rather have Putin in charge of America than Clinton, Obama, Gore, Kerry , Sanders or any other socialist idiot and traitor. I came to the surprise conclusion also...the leader of Russia is NOT a communist..weird but refreshing.I am naieve to hope that somehow Trump and Putin can through their gruff and tough background become a sane, stabilizing adult example and force to start putting the world back on a sane direction and stop the destructive terrorisam that will kill us all. It will never be done by snowflake weaklings.with one worlder pipe dreams. The world started falling apart when the U S S R lost domination over the stan countries and U S A became pacifists. God help us and protect us from failure to act on what has the potential to unite the old and common interests of America and Russia in stopping the madness that has ensued when both countries lost our senses.
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      • Posted by $ number6 7 years ago
        pukeon and the musovites are looters and thugs ...nothing less
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        • Posted by roneida 7 years ago
          I don't know President Putin as well as you obviously do and know for certain that no politician in our virgin pure system has ever committed any crime. That's why we are so smug and superior. Being best is fun even if it's only make believe.Look how much our last organizer helped our community. Get real!
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          • Posted by $ number6 7 years ago
            The maniacal midget is worse than anything you can imagine , and your attempt at sarcasm is ridiculous. Pukeon blatantly assassinates people who cross him.

            I'm sitting by Maidan in downtown Kyiv as I write this. I have seen what he and his henchman do to this country. The hacking of utilities, the draining of a trillion dollars from the economy because Ukraine has to protect itself from the midget's aggression.

            Not to mention the 10,000 people killed by his invasion of Eastern Ukraine in a war that has continued for 3 years now.
            http://liveuamap.com/

            The midget is not one of the wealthiest, if not the weathiest man in the world because of his salary as leader of the muscovites.
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            • Posted by roneida 7 years ago
              Apparently you are privy to special info . You apparently don't like him. American politicians are very special because they are all above the law and never hurt a soul. We are very lucky to be blessed with such saints.. Hope your info serves you well.,
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              • Posted by $ number6 6 years, 11 months ago
                and your sarcasm is noted ... You just changed the subject from pukeon being a thief, dictator, criminal etc to talking about USA politicians who are bad BUT certainly not anywhere to the same degree. Defend pukon if you;d like, THEN we cn debate USA politicians
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                • Posted by roneida 6 years, 11 months ago
                  I did not "defend" anyone as you charge. I was just awed by the absolute, boastful certainty of your opinion and was stunned by corresponding with someone so obviously important and so high up on the information line. I would never presume to question your superior position .please forgive my insolence and audacity.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 7 years ago
    The author forgot to take into consideration who the Russians are ethnically, spiritually and historically. Putin demonstrates himself as a true Slav. He wants to unite all the the Slavic states into one super-state. He not only supports the Orthodox Church but also Pagan music bands and Pagan Spiritual groups tied to ancient Slavic Mythology. It's not only Russian sovereignty plus the Slavic Mythos that drives Putin.
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  • Posted by $ number6 7 years ago
    pukeon is a maniacal midget who is conducting the best hybrid war in the world... using Ukraine as his testing grounds ..

    Is it 11 or 12 people he has assassinated in the last several years?

    There is not a single positive thing anyone should ever say about this thug with a napoleon complex. If odummy had the guts to stand up to him (as we had promised the Ukrainians when they gave up their nukes), the midget would have ran away and cried like all muscovite bullies do.

    10,000 people have been killed in eastern Ukraine and in the takeover of Crimea. Oil fields in eastern Ukraine and off shore wells in Crimea (and of course the bases). And the world stood by and let it happen and believed the Pravda bs.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years ago
    I see this post about Putin highly relative to Herbs post about the unibomber...smart, self interested in the health of one's country and countrymen but no respect for the property of others, not to mention, no Conscience connection to a subconscious nor a mind.
    His guiding adviser, Alexander Dugan, is not much different than trumpets "Bannon"; both, ideologues to beat all ideologues with no conscience and a penitence for fascistic goals.
    I don't see these fascistic goals a tenant of Trumps desires for the country or countrymen but by the same time he needs to be a tough leader against an unruly cast of characters in our kakistocracy.

    It's a very fine line to walk without tripping over one's good intentions.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years ago
    I'd become Robbie the Robot from "Forbidden Planet." He was asked to destroy the thing he was programmed never to harm that was harming itself. He burnt his poor AI out. Let's hope such a scenario never happens to us soft computers.
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  • Posted by wiggys 7 years ago
    some of you might recall what Ayn Rand said of the Russians and that today pertains to putin as well. They are a paper tiger and not to be feared, all you will hear from putting are potential threats or simple bombast. Russia has I believe more natural resource in its land mass than any other country on earth. IF the people were free to exploit these resources they would become an economic power house. But that is not to be because putin is an idiot, hence what I think of him!
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    • Posted by $ 7 years ago
      If you read the article, it contends that Putin's actions were actually to protect the resources (especially oil) from foreign manipulation. I do agree that they have the natural resources to become an economic force in the world equal to the United States. I think that they can only do that, however, if the people themselves embrace true market capitalism. Right now their country is virtually run by the black markets.
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      • Posted by wiggys 7 years ago
        putin does not think of the population at all, only putin and how he can preserve his position. capitalism is not part of his word list. the country will continue to flounder as it has for decades. he probably believes he will live forever. if he were to allow these resources to be exploited others might have money and he would be threatened by the competition since he is a looter not a producer!
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  • Posted by mia767ca 7 years ago
    read the same article...Putin is a dictator, period...he just came out on top in a battle of dictators...
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    • Posted by $ 7 years ago
      Yes. The question is whether or not he did so out of self-interest or out of a desire to grab power. The one thing this article did do was point out extenuating factors I had not known about.
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      • Posted by mia767ca 7 years ago
        the real question is the justification for the self-interst...Rand's and mine is justified, as it yours...the rest should go to hell...
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        • Posted by $ 7 years ago
          One's principles should always be under consideration, absolutely. Self-interest that involves attempting to assert power over others is not a sustainable principles and invariably ends up in violation of individual rights.
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      • Posted by mia767ca 7 years ago
        other factors were smokescreen...milton friedman silenced Phil Donahue when interviewed...Donahue argued that capitalists are selfish, Milton countered with :...show me a politician that is not selfish..."

        Putin was more selfish that the rest...as was Obama...as was Lenin...as was Hitler and Stalin...they acted in their self-interest..
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        • Posted by $ 7 years ago
          Yeah, love that interview with Friedman. I've probably watched it a dozen times. Friedman had the uncanny ability to see through the obfuscation and get to the heart of the matter while being charming at the same time.

          "Putin was more selfish that the rest."

          Oh, I agree that we absolutely should call into question his motives. I seriously doubt he is being driven by a morality which values individual rights. A more accurate description may be that he is a Russian patriot.
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          • Posted by mia767ca 7 years ago
            i understand the russian mind...russian history...sponsored a russian couple who are now american citizens...speak the language...was back-up for Brezhnev's airplane pilots when he was here in the u.s. (in the air force as a pilot)...patriot is a kind word...maybe too kind
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  • Posted by Dobrien 7 years ago
    Thanks Blair,
    I read my copy with interest Sunday . I am no fan of Putin's govt. but he is a formidable foe. During the peace dividend days the Bill Clinton Admin. The US did next to nothing to assist the Russian people or the satellites to transfer to the capitalistic system .Top powerful communist became oligarchies gaming the system. How big a surprise is it when after being looted and screwed over that the people want change.

    In the year 2000 Solzhenitsyn wrote: “As a result of the Yeltsin era, all the fundamental sectors of our political, economic, cultural, and moral life have been destroyed or looted. Will we continue looting and destroying Russia until nothing is left?” That was the year Putin came to power. He was the answer to Solzhenitsyn’s question.

    British people went Brexit . US went Trump.
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    • Posted by Maritimus 7 years ago
      Hello, Dobrien,
      I think that the "original sin" of misguided US foreign policy toward Russia belongs squarely to the first Bush and James Baker. They had an opportunity, but totally misunderstood the basic fact that the Russians, in their collective memories, have been deeply impressed by the murderous invasions of Hitler and Napoleon (the 19th century version of Hitler).
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  • Posted by philosophercat 7 years ago
    To think like Putin mix Orthodox mysticism with communist ideology pragmatism and totalitarian experience with visions of lost glory (false) and you can think like Putin. Castro is just switch catholic for Orthodox but keep communist orthordoxy. Putin has never experienced anything but totalitarian power to take and destroy over individuals . The Russian people are unaware of the idea of individual sovereignty and cowed into submission. Nuts to Hillsdale's whitewash.
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  • Posted by Zero 7 years ago
    'The evidence that he murders his opposition is circumstantial but merits scrutiny.'
    Nothing to see here. Moving on.

    Are we all just sheep to be led down any well-spoken road.
    Would it change your minds if we could prove he ordered those people dead?
    Or would you just come up with an American parallel and say that's the way power moves.
    ---
    Remember being outraged when Obama was caught live-mic telling Putin he could be more flexible after the 2012 election.
    Do we owe him an apology now? Perhaps some accolade for being ahead of the curve?

    But you'd choose Putin over Hilary.

    Me, I'd still vote for a lying thief over a murderous thug.
    But that's just me.
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