Illinois governor vetoes Chicago pension fix, angers city's mayor

Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 11 months ago to Government
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Now this seems like a poster point for the whole government/political issue in a nutshell. One answer leaves increased taxes, and just more debt down the road, and the Republicrat Governor actually said "No" and says "It's all the retirement systems", which is true. But the Dumbocrap mayor is just cultivating his "own" issue, and immediately we are back to the hot button, special word responses, like "hostage" and "irresponsible". Like increasing taxes in the armpit of America is not "irresponsible"? Looting is an art and the Dumbocraps far outstrip the Republicrats in that one...not that the Republicrats haven't got their own looting skills honed, but they seem a lot more bumbling in their execution, look at their Health Care fiasco...


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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Excellent idea, in that it actually ends up being what the Bankruptcy court has done on numerous occasions, especially with airline pilots. Teamsters also are another example, as they are currently looking to get bailed out by the Feds.
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That is true, but then, when that happens, who's problem is it? It is like giving a starving addict money, it will not go to food. So should everyone be forced to give the addicts money? The less thay have from us, the less they can blow on THEIR addictions (like votes, and retirement homes (aka Bernie Baby)).
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  • Posted by JiminMaine 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The problem is that most people are stupid. If you just let them keep the money with the intention of having it go towards retirement and health care they will just spend it.Then want the government to support them when they don't have enough to support themselves.
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  • Posted by bassboat 8 years, 11 months ago
    Does the fund have any cash right now? If it does divide up what's left among retirees and require that the money that the employees were going to put into the system be put into their own fund. Ditto with any money that the state was going to put in. This eliminates the unfunded part of the equation. The cry immediately goes up, "What about the folks who were depending on this for retirement?". My answer is that they chose the wrong employer, tough but why I should be living in Metropolis and funding my own pension have to pony up for a bloated retirement package?
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Not a bad idea. Would certainly stimulate business and bring in a lot more from overseas. Make the US a tax haven from Europe...
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Ah, but there in is the rub, you get 2 folders from your accountant. I would prefer a clean 10% of all your income, I think it would still be cheaper. Of course, define income. That would be, money you earned after expenses to acquire. So, if you earned 100K, but it cost you 80k to earn it, then you pay 2K in taxes. Although, even at that it would mean a tax increase so maybe we need to go to 6 or 7%, or even less. Really doesn't matter the concept is so alien as to not be worth our effort...
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think it depends on the HSA structure, I cannot use mine unless it is to pay for deductable or authorized medical purchases, and even then, I have had some declined as "not allowed". I cannot withdraw any unless I provide a claim for it, and all the crap that goes with that mess...
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yep, CG is correct, a true HSA allows for carryover, because it is your money, not theirs. I would see if it is really and HSA. One of the virtues is it can accumulate money, although I don't know if there is some weird tax liability. I get the crazy form each year, but Block never asks beyond "Did you get a form" and I say "yes" and it says "Good news, you do not have to pay a penalty". Better news, I would never pay their damn penalty anyways, as they can KMA. One reason I wish the Republcrats had not tried to jimmy the thing for their own purposes, and just repealed it and started over, but then that would be SO uncharacteristic of the looters...
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "I have an HSA but it doesn't carry over from year to year."
    I think that's an FSA or some other vehicle. A true HSA is just like a regular bank or investment account with a tax shield around it, similar to a self-directed IRA. To put money in you must have an "HSA-compatible" health insurance policy. You can spend money from it but not put new money in if you do not have an HSA-compatible insurance policy. You can spend the money on many health-related products/services. You cannot use it for OTC meds (you could before PPACA) or to pay insurance premiums.

    http://www.hsabank.com/hsabank/educat...
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "What is your income?
    Send in 10%."
    All the works is in figuring out what's income. I get two bound folders from my accountant depreciating stuff, showing the basis for things I sold, and so on. Calculating tax owed is one line. It is very simple regardless of the number of brackets.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    What kind of HSA have you got? I have an HSA but it doesn't carry over from year to year. And mine is strictly for health - you can't use it for "savings"... The only expenses they'll allow to be taken out are medical ones. I'd sure love to hear about other options.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "I'd like to see an account where you took the money out pre-tax (like a standard IRA) but it didn't get taxed on the back end."
    HSAs work this way: tax deductible, tax sheltered, not taxes when you take money out. You can invest it stocks, bonds, and mutual funds. You can still fill it up for 2016. It's such a good tax deal, we fill it up every year and don't use it for medical expenses.

    Science won't cure aging in time for me, so at some point hopefully several decades from now my wife can spend it on end-of-life care or find a way to bequeath it. I have not looked into bequeathing it, though, b/c I doubt my wife and I will get out of this life without the opportunity to spend it on health-related services.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    YES! if they want to keep the income tax, make it a flat tax. Both Herman Cain and Rand Paul's ideas were great.

    Let's also eliminate corporate income taxes. It's a double tax anyway.
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Great idea. I also just plain hate the whole tax thing, it is a huge snake pit of special interest deals for specific things and makes the whole thing a mess. I can go for the one that says:
    What is your income?
    Send in 10%.
    Period.

    No more on top of, excises, deductions or anything. I think they call it a Flat Tax. But then, a whole cadre of accountants and lawyers would be out of work, and the political machines would lose all that money in under the table payments and "donations".
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually, both a Roth IRA and 401K work off taxed income - what you put in is contributions "after taxes". A standard IRA comes out before taxes but you have to pay taxes on the money you pull out. I'd like to see an account where you took the money out pre-tax (like a standard IRA) but it didn't get taxed on the back end. If they wanted to put a 20-yr limit on it that's fine but make the entire thing tax-free - especially if it is dealing with healthcare expenses.
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have yet to figure out if SS and medicaid taxes come off BEFORE they figure your income, it makes no sense to me the way they put the numbers on both payroll and W2. But yes, a Tax free account like the 401K would work, but then they could not steal it and do what they want with it and tell you later "sorry". So, you would cut off the looter supply.
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, indeed there is the reality of it. I do know SOME state workers who do produce, but that is a single digit number, and the vast majority are useless.Soooo many times I have been involved with "the rules" only to find out either they do not apply, or that they just do not want to bother. The State gave up 30K in a lawsuit that they had a lein on a piece of property the lazy owners did not do a title search on when selling, so when they sued me and the State, the state walked away "not worth out time". Since I have 138K tied up in it, I found it worth my time, and they could have just sat back and rode it. Which they may still do if I win, but a-holes they be.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Honest, I'll give you. Hard working? Sometimes. Productive however is an oxymoron when it comes to describing government work.

    My brother went to work for our local State government doing some kind of analysis part time - tax analysis I think. He was only there for like eight hours a week and he was getting done for them what their normal employees took an entire week to get done. They told him to slow down and that it was okay if it took him a few weeks to get the tasks done and that he was making them look bad. Needless to say he was glad when his degree progressed and allowed him to get a productive full-time job.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Agreed completely. I've been paying into SS for more than 20 years and have known from day one I'd never see a penny of that money.

    Yes, people should be able to set aside tax-free income for both retirement and medical expenses. I don't think there should be taxes on either one. Of course, I'd like to see personal (and corporate) income taxes eliminated as well.
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Nope Herb, I can only honestly say in the last few years Trey Gowdy and Judge Gorsuch seem to be the only two I could honestly trust. The Judge doesn't really count anyways, since he is a Judge...but...
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    And that may be the very way to go, since it transfers the responsibility where it belongs, but phase out Social Security as well...There should also be a medical plan you can fund over 40 years as well...
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 11 months ago
    Since most of us have lives, we either haven't the time nor the desire to check out the honesty of any politician. Just say the following to yourself over and over. "No politician tells the people that he wants power over them, so he tells them he wants to help them" Don't ever expect that a politician is truly working for your personal benefit, unless he or she is your father or mother. And even then.....
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Privately owned and operated retirement funds are the only way to go. Look at ANY other pension fund - public or corporate - and you'll see one which is under water. Companies need to pay that money to the individual and let the individual invest as they see fit.

    Though I don't agree with the mandate part per se, Australia mandates that everyone contribute toward their own private retirement plan. So far it has resulted in zero pension fund mismanagement or budget shortfalls and has dropped their rate of dependence on government in old age.
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Most government employees are honest, hard working folks, it is the system that gives them extraordinary pensions not seen in private industry, and the collection of political favorites who do nothing that causes issues.
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