Galt's Gulch
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US factory CEOs to Trump: Jobs exist; skills don't

Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 1 month ago to Business
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Lets see now, it appears we have an issue, in that people who need to work have to actually know how to read, write, think, make decisions, yet apparently the education system isn't doing it. Maybe it's all because of not enough money..yep, we need to triple our spending on education...that would fix it. When will reality set in? Of course there are just as many answers: Apprentice training at minimum wage until you can meet their requirements, restore shop classes and vocational ed to a real base of reality, instead of teaching "civil rights organization" I haven't seen a lot going on from these same CEOs who are complaining, they need to take the reins and actually open up and allow people who can think to make the programs they need, instead of waiting for the "gubmnt" This isn't cheese...
SOURCE URL: https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/us-factory-ceos-trump-jobs-exist-skills-dont-215456673--finance.html

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  • Posted by GaryL 7 years, 1 month ago
    The push these days is for everyone to have a college degree in useful crap like Under Water Basket Weaving while many of these college bound kids didn't get a basic HS education.
    The company my wife works for started hiring only those with at least a 2 year degree and they are now re thinking that plan. Very short on work ethics is what they are learning and the attitude seems to be "Hey, at least I made it to work and now you expect me to do something" for a $12/hr first job starting salary. They have a hard enough time just finding new employees who can Pee in a cup clean.
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    • Posted by term2 7 years, 1 month ago
      We hired a mechanical engineer straight out of school. He could do drawings and was a good employee. BUT, he needed to work with me and take advantage of my experience in what works and doesnt work in practice for a little over a year. Our job was worth $12/hour, but it was invaluable to him. He just left us for a better job and is making $25/hour now. I think this is the way things used to work, and we should go back to that.
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 1 month ago
      Exactly!. The Education Establishment took over the whole economy in the aftermath of WW2 with the GI Bill. It allowed almost everyone and his mother (well no women) to go to college, and there was an explosion. Since it paid well, was free and covered 4 years, a LOT of GI's used it, and have used it. This created the false expectation that you need a degree to know anything. Those guys were successful because they went into colleg after a war where they were cammed through some very detailed technical schools and HAD to lear it quick, then apply it in the field or get killed. They took that ability to college. Totally different program from todays "coddle and change diaper" programs . You can take a HS graduate from a "good" program, and teach them anything, including nuclear physics, given a good program and enough time.
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  • Posted by Temlakos 7 years, 1 month ago
    If education is lacking, it is because governments handle most of it. And since 1970, we have seen it suffused with one social experiment after another--beginning, of course, with desegregation busing, and continuing with far less obvious, but worse in their way, things.
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    • Posted by term2 7 years, 1 month ago
      Only my opinion, but I say that I learned VERY little practical knowledge in high school. I went to MIT for college and basically learned how to think, although I cant say I remember much of what they taught, or use it in practical ways since then. I have learned on my own much more practical stuff after college.
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      • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 1 month ago
        You, sir, can be the poster boy for how it is really done. The whole college thing is a fabrication of the Education empire. My experience is exactly the same, I did an BS in Internet Studies (my company paid for it, I got GI Bill, so I took the ride). Did not do a huge amount of work, picked up a few useful things that actually benefited my employer, and graduated Magnum Cum Laude. However, it has no direct bearing on my job or performance.
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 7 years, 1 month ago
    My son in law owns a heavy haul trucking company. He has had job openings for over a year for diesel mechanics, machinists, heavy equipment operators, computer programmers, drivers, and a pilot with multi engine and instrument ratings. So far no qualified people have applied. This is in California where our education system is in shambles.
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 1 month ago
      Classic example, Prof. My son is an Army E7 with almost 20 years of experience and management skills, but has flat out said California is not an option, with all their taxes and high costs. Maybe your son in law needs to evacuate and he might have better luck.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 1 month ago
    As most manufacturing involves machines, manufacturing is a lot of maintenance, which isn't typically taught in the common college curriculum these days. We need to stop pushing college degrees as the end-all and be-all of education - especially when many degrees are only completing the education students should have received in high school! What we need are more apprenticeship programs.
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 1 month ago
      I will say Portland Community College on oregon does do some good work that does involve most semiconductor manufacturing equipment, because Intel provided the equipment and the requirements and they hired a lot of Intel retirees. Otherwise, you are right. Very few schools know what the requirements are, and just throw crap at the wall to see what sticks.
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  • Posted by RonC 7 years, 1 month ago
    Companies need to hire people as they are and train them to become what they need them to be. An old school idea that creates an economic ladder today.
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  • Posted by GaryL 7 years, 1 month ago
    I joined the USN right after HS graduation in 1970. I was at best a C- student just doing enough to get out of that joke called a school with a diploma. The USN taught me the focus I was desperately in need of and in every school they sent me through I aced them at the top of my class. After the Navy I took a career job in the prison system and started going to college on the GI bill. Once again it was a joke school where half the students had no business being in a higher education setting when they missed the lower HS basics. With the exception of the top 10% of HS graduates who really do learn I think kids at 18 need a year or two of reality learning and I don't mean on mom and dads free lunch with room and board. Join the military or get a job and start paying real bills in order to eat. Something was ingrained into most of us back in the late 60s and we couldn't get out of mommy and daddy's house quick enough and first on the list was a job and a car to get you back and forth from an apartment you shared with a couple buddies. I spent that entire summer of 1970 before my induction dead broke just trying to keep my junker car running and living on Ramen and Lipton soup and what ever I could eat at the restaurant where I worked. Expecting kids to excel when they are given everything is even a bigger joke than a public school HS education. My dad floated me an $800 loan at graduation to buy a 1962 Sunbeam Alpine that needed lots of work and made it clear $100/month for 8 months or else. I paid it off in 3 months and went to boot camp.
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    • Posted by BeenThere 7 years, 1 month ago
      "...I think kids at 18 need a year or two of reality learning and I don't mean on mom and dads free lunch with room and board. Join the military or get a job and start paying real bills in order to eat. Something was ingrained into most of us back in the late 60s and we couldn't get out of mommy and daddy's house quick enough and first on the list was a job and a car to get you back and forth from an apartment you shared with a couple buddies."

      Yes, yes, yes x1,000 BT
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 1 month ago
      I went in 1976, and left in April of my Senior year as I had enough credits. I remember walking in the barracks in Boot Camp the night of graduation with a pair of socks on a broom to catch "dust bunnies". Learned how to prioritize that night...
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      • Posted by GaryL 7 years, 1 month ago
        The skills I learned between dirt bikes as a kid and the training in the Navy made it so I never have had to call in any professionals for my motors or in my home except for deep electrical stuff. The money saved by DIY carpentry, mechanics and plumbing over these many years made it all worth the time spent as Vietnam was winding down. Not many helicopters around here to wrench on but plenty of other engines to keep running and it all translates.
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        • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 1 month ago
          Exactly! I learned auto skills on a 1964 VW Kharmann Ghia, then in the Navy, electronics, troubleshooting, hydraulics, and electrical. Has let me do 90% of my own work at home, as well as a good job.
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  • Posted by jimslag 7 years, 1 month ago
    Actually the skills are there. Most military can not only read and write but are trained in many disciplines that crossover to civilian careers. I was in the Navy for 21 years and came out with skills relating to electricity generation, electronics, control and monitoring circuits, nuclear power, fire fighting training, paramedic training and many other skills. I also know that I am not in the minority as far as skills learned. Problem is that the military does not give degrees or certifications with those skills or if they do it is hard to get certified because of all the different duties you have.
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 1 month ago
      That is true, but a lot of employers recognize that. Intel gave me credit for a Bachelors when I was hired 20 years ago as an E7 Level 3 trained sonar tech. Military people need to use Clep and the free classes they can get while on active duty to get the best results.
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  • Posted by Ed75 7 years, 1 month ago
    It is not really possible for any kind of "universal educational system" To provide the necessary "skills and knowledge" to workers in almost all industries. The only thing that actually works is that an entrepreneur recognizes the need to teach, (on the job) the skills and knowledge necessary to get their particular job done, and provide it. Throughout our history, this is the only thing that actually works.
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 1 month ago
      Exactly, which is why these "specialized" 4 year degrees are mostly mush, that consist of some material pertinant to the subject, but the graduate, when then employed, pretty much starts at square zero. That is why the military vet is almost a better deal, because they have learned to learn and at a rapid pace. High school should be a general knowledge course in all basic subjects, necessary to give a person a basic tool box to then go start really learning. But educators have turned education into a cottage industry they control, and they produce resultant "crap".
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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 7 years, 1 month ago
    Hello nickursis,
    I am once again training a new apprentice. I can't find young people with any skills or desire to do metalworking around here. I am training a guy with some past experience that is old enough to retire, but wants to continue to be productive. Young people are no longer offered shop classes in HS anymore around here. I hear this is a problem for many of my fellow machine shop owners locally. I believe this notion fostered by our government run education system, that everyone needs a college degree, is largely to blame.
    Respectfully,
    O.A.
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 1 month ago
      You are so correct. Your skills would be the same as a PHd at this point, yet there is no system to recognize that, which leads to the discrepancy and also a common perception of "less". Hands on skills can only be taught, as basic (well Navy) education theory says. You need to teach knowledge to support skills, and they mesh. Pure knowledge serves no purpose but to generate more pure knowledge, which never gets taken into reality. Had Rickover only been interested in nuclear power for nuclear power, it never would have gone to sea. Or become a part of the energy system. he took knowledge and then had it applied to a specific task and skill. Same thing with my work, I make more than a lot of senior engineers, yet I function across a broad spectrum of skills, from writing specs and tech documents to actually running the factory floor. Finding people who can do that is very hard.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 1 month ago
    Why is there an alleged shortage of people with skills?
    Could it be that the employers have completely changed the compensation packages? In the past some manufacturing jobs offered a level of security to the employee that is no longer offered. In a free market, that might result in fewer people making the investment in time and money in learning the skills for those jobs. One might tell the CEO's to heal yourselves instead of asking the taxpayers to fix what you have broken. Actions have predictable results for people who consider the long term effects instead of chasing short term profits to boost the CEO's personal pay and bonus.
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 1 month ago
      It could also be that the current education system is totaly broke. oregon spends 40% of it's budget on K-12 and wants another 1.5 billion this next 2 years. They have dumped anything useful "like "shop" that taught skills of some sort. That is why I am all for trying the new Ed Sec who at least seems to think schools need to run on a business basis, and their results and product are what you are buying, by using vouchers, charter schools and choices. Make them have to actually teach and educate. Right now I bet most of the budgets go for salary and retirement, and little else.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 1 month ago
        I agree that the ed system is broken, nick, and needs an overhaul. It worked a lot better prior to 1970.
        This week I received an email from my state rep regarding the balanced budget that the state legislature just completed this week:
        "Overall, the largest part of our budget (54%) is spent on Education ... and 62% of the budget increase goes to education" Per the email $19 billion in state funding for 2018 is budgeted to educate/brainwash 1.7 million "students"in public schools. $11,176 per "student."
        In 2014, Education Week studies placed the state at 35th best state in education (of 50 states) with a "C" average, below the national average of "C+". To be fair, however, other studies show that the differences in test scores between the top 10 states and the bottom 10 states is very small. imo, the geographical differences in looter "pull" is much more significant (with DC and NY highest, imo), and none of the state public school systems are successful overall.
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        • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 1 month ago
          Well Freedom, you hit the bulls eye! No amount of money will fix it (and I will bet you that a huge amount of their "increase" is buried as PERS money or raises which net nothing for the process). The geniues of "education" have no idea what to do, beyond whine to the paymasters "we need more", sort of like most senior military people do. The root cause is the process itself. To my knowledge, no one has actually examined education from a goal based aspect (i.e. what is the desired end state?), and they keep getting more money, and keep adding in their "social education" agenda. Common Core is a great example. It is the most illogical, rambling, disjointed discombobulation you can imagine. Scaled down from college curriculum, probably. Until the death grip of the education establishment is broke, it will continue to produce garbage results. For example, it costs some incredible amount of money (like 350.00) fo a textbook, because it must be vetted by a huge number of political checkpoints, to ensure "accuracy", yet they are routinely behind the times, out of date, and inaccurate from a fact perspective. They are not designed to educate with facts, but with political diatribe. End the grip of the education book lords, and some improvement could be had. Then you need to go to a basic nation wide curriculum standard (not curriculum, but a standard) that requires you complete and master "x,y,and z" to advance. If you don't, you don't. That teaches not only fundamental skills, but the ethic of working to achieve a goal, and personal responsibility. If you are 12 and have mastered all the skills, go to college, if you are 28, then you will probably not have a bright future in nuclear power... It could be fixed, but not in the present system. I educated sailors as a master training specialist in the Navy, and we could take the dim wits the Navy gave us, and have them master a 112 cabinet sonar system with over 1.5 million parts, in a year (tactical use, maintenance and repair). Only failed about 20%, because we would keep at it until they did learn it..despite the pain.
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