I agree, Romney is Obama in prettier packaging.

However I think Romney is only being "packaged" liberally so they can push voters to switch their votes from Democrat to Republican.

His campaign is very Democrat/Republican. I only hope if he gets in he drops his democrat line of bull, and acts more republican.

We'll soon find out!

I think we're going to end up fighting whoever wins. At least we can all agree on that!

I'm betting Johnson will surprise us all, Slick. Let's hope so!

I too expect problems with Romney, He will not be the force that improves things, He just wont make them nearly as bad as Obama would in another term. I will fight the Romney fight through the house and senate, which is where we can realistically get some true small government politicians in.

The libertarian movement has received little to no attention. Gaining 5% of the vote will unlock a torrent of funds and put them on the map. Ross Perot was independent and once he lost, everything went away. The liberty movement, between the Tea Party conservatives and the libertarians will only continue to grow, no matter what happens.

Congratulations, Ohio is doing similar things. I think the local elections are far more important than the national ones, for reasons I've already mentioned.

Everyone has to make up their own minds. I see a bigger picture for years down the road, so I don't see my vote wasted. I'll be voting for conservatives and libertarians in local elections depending on who has the best message/strategy/track record and whoever can win to beat out the brain-dead socialists.

Good luck to you tomorrow, a part of me wants Romney to win just to beat Obama, but we shall see what happens.

Hello Robbie53024.

Thanks.

Some additional things to consider:

For what it is worth, which party platform is preferable overall? Who do you want nominating Supreme Court justices in the next four years? Are you comfortable with Biden being one heartbeat away from the presidency for four more years? Considering the media’s role as a check in our system and the enabling/ preference they show for Obama, who will likely receive that necessary check over the next four years?
Respectfully,
O.A.

Thank you. My point is that the Ron Paul and Gary Johnson movements will never make ground unless we force them to. That only happens if the libertarians get 5% of the vote or more. I think there’s a good chance of Romney winning anyway, and Johnson will pull from many disenfranchised democrats too.

The Ron Paul movement was shunned by the GOP by established ‘good old boys’ who want to continue the merging of big government and big corporate agendas, which amounts to fascism. Personally I can’t see how electing more of the same will solve anything, but I understand why many people are willing to give it a shot after 4 years of Obama.

On the same note I think that Obama is as much a pawn as any other politician and that it’s all a grand scheme to get us to fight each other to quell the real liberty movement. But either way the liberty movement is growing, and many people are waking up. We’ll see what happens tomorrow. In many ways I hope Romney wins just to beat Obama, but at the same time I hope he doesn’t because I’m afraid the Tea Party will die off and people will go back to sleep. Pick your poison.

I hope also that the libertarians get a huge pull and it breaks the two party system for good. Ross Perot wasn’t part of the libertarian movement, so it didn’t spin off a new party. This time things are different.

Just because things have been a certain way for a hundred years, doesn’t mean we can’t do something different now.

"Innovators and creative geniuses cannot be reared in schools. They are precisely the men who defy what the school has taught them." – Ludwig von Mises

I guess my school of thought is completely different. I believe that I as an individual can change the world, and that drops have ripple effects.

Anyway; good luck to everyone tomorrow, we’ll see what happens. For the most part this thread has been a good debate.

Right back at you bud. Might want to check your tone before you start making accusations. I have a very good perspective on things, and I've mentioned multiple times how I respect your possition. Might want to check your attitude on some of your comments; I've found you to be rude on a number of occasions.

There is a purity to this argument that is worth mention. Your thoughts are very well thought out. Many of us get caught up in the game of politics but what you are saying is how it is supposed to work, which we all know is not how it is. That certainly doesn't make you wrong. Nice job with taking an unpopular position and sticking to it with such great facts. It's easy to go with the flow, and very hard to stand against the current, like you are doing. I think Obama is the most vile politician I can ever think of, and I would vote for a brainless dog just to get Obama out of the White House. Does that make the political system stronger---no. But it is part of a strategy to remove Obama. I suspect that in the near future, I will have many problems with Romney too and that will be a fight on that day. But Obama has to go and if the election process doesn't work then by some other method. It will take time for people like Gary Johnson and Rand Paul to make ground, and Rand if he stays pure as his dad has, may have a shot in the future. But it won't happen fast, that's for sure.

I'm trying my ass off to be polite, so I would appreciate it if you'd stop addressing me. Your understanding of reality and my perspective is nonexistent, so your talking down to me is grating.

Oh we should scrap the department of education along with most of the other useless and expensive government departments. Don't worry I'm not playing into leftist propaganda.

I'm walking a fine line between republican and democrat attack ads, and actual intellectual videos from libertarians, capitalists and free thinkers. You really need an open mind to sift through all the crap out there, and it can be quite frustrating.

I understand how you feel, my job has been perilously close to being cut multiple times over the last couple of years. Our company was booming until Obama took office. But I know that Bush's actions helped lead to where we are now, and I don't see Romney helping out either. His actions at Bain Capital did indeed cripple many good companies and send jobs overseas. I see Romney as a looter of the highest caliber, not a producer.

I think we're heading for an economic collapse either way. Don't vote out of fear. If you truly believe Romney will make a difference, cast your vote for him, and we'll see what happens.

Either way, take care of your family the best that you can. One way or another we're in for a bumpy road ahead.

I wish Paul Ryan was the Ayn Rand libertarian guy he claims to be, but he's just another big government bailout stooge. He won't influence anything, he'll go right along with whatever his leaders tell him to do.

If Gary Johnson gets 5% of the vote, we'll really turn the tables on the corrupt republicans, and really make the democrats squeal.

I'd like to see Rand Paul run in 2016, he's positioning himself as being more mainstream in the republican party, even though he's a lot more libertarian like his dad.

Romney is nobody's ideal candidate, and very few people voted for him as their first choice in the primaries. I find that a little disturbing. Anyway, looking at the VP candidates, Joe Biden is a complete joke there's no denying that. Unfortunately Paul Ryan is a fake. I'd love to agree with you on the libertarian streak but its just not true. Paul Ryan was one of the biggest advocates for the multiple bailouts during the Bush administration. As for Ron Paul being radical; is it radical to abide by the constitution? As for foreign policy; Ron Paul has the best foreign policy I have ever seen. Our biggest debt burdens as a nation come from our extraordinary spending on useless wars overseas. If we brought our troops home we could half the defense budget overnight without letting go of a single soldier or piece of equipment.

Obama's stance thus far has actually been fascist in nature, but socialism and fascism are both collectivist, so there's no need to spar on that issue. Will Obama bring back more collectivism? Sure, he'll try, but again I don't think Romney will do any different. And no there will be no return...but only if we let it. Since I see both candidates as the same, I'm working on building a solution to the two party monopoly. Our stances are different, but I will do whatever I can to limit their power over us, and return this country to a republic.

My vote will not help to negate my beliefs.

It would go against my beliefs to vote for a warmongering fascist like Romney or Obama.

I'm trying something different.

Don't worry, the movement is growing. I don't expect to win in this election. The libertarian movement is a long term movement, and it is growing leaps and bounds.

Both Gary Johnson and Ron Paul started out in the republican primaries at the beginning of the year, and both were shunned. Romney was practically picked for us by the establishment and the media. There are many dark forces at work who simply want to continue to push a power grabbing agenda which spans both sides of government. You can call the democrats and Obama socialists until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't change the fact that the republicans are passing all the same legislation that the democrats have.

My vote will help propel my beliefs. I hope yours does the same.

"None of those issues are anywhere close to a dictatorship or totalitarianism"

Wow...really?

When was the last time you went to an airport?

When was the last time you were forced to raise your arms like a criminal to go through a body scanner?

Yes those issues are about totalitarianism. We are perilously close to sealing the deal on the whole thing, and it was a bi-partisan act between both sides of the government.

Romney is not evil because he doesn't agree with me or you 100%, that's just silly. Romney's actions and beliefs are very similar to Obama's, neither of them respect the constitution, and neither respect the lives of American citizens. Anyway, I replied to you once more at the top of the page, and elsewhere. This thread has gotten awfully long.

Mixed premises does not equal evil, you're right. Actions speak louder than words. For the wars in the middle east alone; Bush and Obama are evil. When you add that to the theft in the form of legislation and taxation, you really do have a mixed bag.

This conversation could go on for weeks. But I guess we'll just have to see what happens on Tuesday and go from there.

You're welcome for the Ron Paul ad, don't worry I have tons more if you're interested. Romney's companies made money through increasing failing companies debt burdens and ultimately crippling them. Romney's companies ultimately stripped the value of many good companies. Ayn Rand would refer to him as a looter of the highest caliber.

I could go on and on all the way up until Tuesday about why I think Romney's no good, and I could dig up all sorts of information to prove it. But you've already made your decision, and that's just fine. I've made mine, and everyone on this forum has made their minds up also.

I'm voting for Gary Johnson because I believe in free unregulated markets, and because I want to defend the constitution.

Yourself and many others have stated what you think Romney stands for, and I hope you're right.

I guess we'll see what happens next week.

OK, Romney's not a nihilist, he's what did you call him? Was it a giant douche? Or was he supposed to be the turd sandwich? Sorry, south park is an entertaining comedy show, but this is real life, and I'm not voting for crap.