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Why California should try to secede - and how it would fail gloriously

Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 3 months ago to Humor
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Liberals are always talking with their emotions. Here's why I think they should be given the ability to secede - just so it can fail so spectacularly that we can clean it out and start over. It might also cow some of the other Democratic states.
SOURCE URL: http://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2017/01/12/why-californias-silly-succession-scheme-cant-succeed-n2269854


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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 3 months ago
    I happen to think, politically incorrectly of course, that the USA should be 50 independent states at this point, with governmental competition among then. The federal "government" would be relegated to a trade organization helping to encourage free commerce among the states. BUT, each state would have its own laws, and suffer from or benefit from them individually. The 'good' states would be attractive and encourage immigration, with the bad states losing good people.

    There would be lots to work out, but I am tired of the large federal governemnt, and I even think its too large to be workable any more.

    Its a little like the idea of one 'god' who looks after and responds to EVERY person on earth. How would that even work ? Same with the federal government.
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    • Posted by $ 7 years, 3 months ago
      The initial vision of the United States of America was very similar to this concept. It held that the majority of power rested in the States and that the various peoples of the individual States would be free to move from States with bad policies to States with good policies and this encourage the general development and adoption of good policies. What has happened instead is that a few decisions such as the 17th Amendment have dramatically eroded the sovereign powers of the States. Combine that with the sharp growth of the regulatory state (via bureaucracy) and I completely agree with you that the Federal Government has assumed many powers that the Founding Fathers would have strongly rejected as belonging to the purview of the Federal Government.
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      • Posted by KevinSchwinkendorf 7 years, 3 months ago
        Sometimes when I point out that the Second Amendment is there as a final line of defense against tyranny, people respond that if there was a revolution, what would we replace the current government with? I reply, well, that laid out in the Constitution of the United States, of course! And I would include all 27 current amendments. What I would not include is all the Supreme Court decisions, "case law" substituting for what the Constitution actually says, 200+ years of "judicial precedent," etc. Finally, we should put teeth into the 10th Amendment - as far as I know, its never been repealed, just ignored by liberals...
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        • Posted by $ 7 years, 3 months ago
          There are several Amendments I would revoke, notably the Twelfth and Seventeenth, or revise/clarify like the Fourteenth.

          And BTW, there is nothing that says that the Legislature can't ignore or override the Judiciary. All they have to do is pass a law with their desired intent. They can also impeach members of the Judiciary (Supreme Court) who exceed their authority, though it has never been done to my knowledge. What I think is a bigger problem is that many Supreme Court actions have assumed the legitimacy of a particular Legislative action when they should have turned it down for lack of jurisdiction. Every single Welfare-related policy should have been overturned in this manner.

          My thought was to introduce an Amendment that required every Bill to come before Congress to have two mandatory sections: a section stating its purported Constitutional authority and a twilight provision if it necessitated funding. I would also like to have another Amendment which prevents unrelated amendments to be proposed to any legislation. A last one is an Amendment which would state that every Federal Agency's budget would have to be individually appropriated - it could not be included in a larger bill. This one would cause our current government to grind to a halt or cut out dead weight. ;)

          I've thought of a couple more, but they're for another thread.
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          • Posted by KevinSchwinkendorf 7 years, 3 months ago
            I like what you've written, but if the Congress passed any legislation (and even if the President signs it into law), the Supreme Court can overturn it - not legitimately, of course, but that's what they did with the Partial Birth Abortion Law (signed into law by George W. Bush). The Court overturned it. I would have thought that would be firm grounds for impeachment and removal from office (under the clause that states that Supreme Court justices serve for Life "while under Good Behaviour"), but what do I know? I'm an engineer, not a lawyer.
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      • Posted by term2 7 years, 3 months ago
        I have moved around to seek the most free states, but its getting harder now. Nevada wasnt as bad as california, but its gotten bad too. Maybe Utah will be next for me, but the feds are trying to take over all the states. I doubt Trump will do much about that, but I hope he does.
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    • Posted by LibertyBelle 7 years, 3 months ago
      I am in accord with the Federal 13th, 14th, 15th,
      and 19th Amendments. I do not think that the citi-
      zen should be handed over to be a serf to his state
      government.
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      • Posted by term2 7 years, 3 months ago
        At least the state governments would have to compete with each other if the feds were downsized. Overbearing states would lose population and the best people would leave
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  • Posted by jimjamesjames 7 years, 3 months ago
    Let's see. The South seceded, there was a war. California secedes, they have no guns, the war should take about 20 minutes.
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    • Posted by KevinSchwinkendorf 7 years, 3 months ago
      The only problem with that is that there are a fair number of military bases in California. Which side would they take? During the Civil War, military and naval bases within the South went with the South.
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      • Posted by $ 7 years, 3 months ago
        True, but the people then also were loyal first to their State and then to the Nation. Back then one was known as a Virginian or a "Volunteer" first and only as an American to foreigners. That situation has completely reversed over the past 200 years where now very few people are loyal to their States. This is one of the results of very little State sovereignty.

        Most of the military rank-and-file I have talked to are disgusted with Democratic leadership. I seriously doubt you'd see many of them side with California. I would also note that unless they are National Guard units, their chain-of-command doesn't go through the State's Governor in the first place. I would think they would be a huge liability - rather than an asset - to such Californians.
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        • Posted by KevinSchwinkendorf 7 years, 3 months ago
          All good points - I hope you are right. But, just like all the "celebrities" who promise to leave the country if/when a Republican wins, and then don't, I suspect the California succession furor is likely not going anywhere.
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  • Posted by rjkford 7 years, 3 months ago
    Sorry I'm late into this...but I've got to say, as much as I'd like to see the cancer that is California removed from the Union, not the land mind you, but the Liberal organisms that run it, there could be severe consequences. Within a short time they would be Broke with a capital B. Then as a sovereign country they would be eligible for foreign aid. From whom. Wait for it.....us US. Our politicians have too much invested in La La land to let it go Bye Bye. So let them make all the noise they want, let us do what pisses them off more than anything..IGNORE them. Keep a eye on them, but , ignore them the same way they did us when we complained about Pres Obama.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 7 years, 3 months ago
    Never happen.

    I have had the opportunity to do some work in what some call "The State of Jefferson" and, let me tell you, it is really, really nice.
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    • Posted by term2 7 years, 3 months ago
      No president or congress would allow California to secede, although it would be nice if ALL the states seceded in principle, stripping the federal government of most of its powers (which needs to happen).
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  • Posted by richrobinson 7 years, 3 months ago
    I would like to see California split into 2 maybe 3 States or perhaps parts could be absorbed by other States. Too many people suffer the Liberal dictates of a small part of the State. Barring that we still have The San Andreas Fault. Perhaps faith will make it a mute point.
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    • Posted by term2 7 years, 3 months ago
      Unfortunately, the entire state is defunct. San Francisco is beyond all hope, and Los Angeles is filled with illegals and legals from socialist south american countries, not to mention super liberal celebrities. Its over for California, which is a shame in that its a beautiful state (I used to live there). It is a manifestation of the rotten oak tree in AS at this point tho.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 3 months ago
    I think they should separate urban areas from rural areas. People are not divided by states anymore but by urban/rural. Every time I try to think of the mechanics of how it would work, though, I arrive back at something that looks like way the framers of the US Constitution intended to limit federal govt power.
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    • Posted by $ 7 years, 3 months ago
      You are referring to the by county red/blue maps, yes? The ones that show that the vast majority of counties in the US vote Republican and the urban centers tend to vote Democrat.

      I do have to wonder what makes it about living in more rural areas that tends to move one to the right while living in highly-concentrated urban areas move strongly left. I have always wondered whether or not there are simple truths to be found in simple living.
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      • Posted by Dobrien 7 years, 3 months ago
        Simple living, is simply living in reality. Living in a rural area requires a greater dependence on ones self and abilities to create the value to trade for value. The line of mans rights and the purported yet non- existence of animal rights is known to be a fallacy. The farmer knows the benefit he or she receives from treating their livestock well. They also know that left unaffected the land will reclaim their homes and livelihood. They take no course of action to racially discriminate against any person, yet they are called bigots. The idea of where a person goes to the bathroom is of concern only for the user ,and to change the norms of a society for the benefit of .0004 % of the population is asinine. They have a moral code of a mans word is his bond, they don't take too kindly to lies. They are much less concerned about fitting in with the crowd.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 3 months ago
          "The idea of where a person goes to the bathroom is of concern only for the user ,and to change the norms of a society for the benefit of .0004 % of the population is asinine. "
          I never actually encounter any bigotry issues or bathroom norms issues (I can't believe that's even a thing) if I stop in Eau Claire on a trip from Madison to Minneapolis. It turns out the moral code of keeping your word, telling the truth, and minding your own business are not just rural things.

          I recently drove to the South, and I didn't run into any nonsense. It clearly not the same from my home where the 0.0004% live. But it's not so different that it's problem living side-by-side and driving through.
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          • Posted by Dobrien 7 years, 3 months ago
            The point is many people in the rural community would like to see the focus of the govt on guarding our country ,enabling capitalism to flourish and stay out of social issues where the main intent is to divide the people while they loot!
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            • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 3 months ago
              It's odd the they sell the exact same line to urban people. The urban people are about enabling capitalism, while the rural people focus on social issues and end up dependent on programs funded predominantly by urban areas. It's the exact same line.
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              • Posted by $ 7 years, 3 months ago
                I think you have that exactly backwards. It is the urban settings which are clamoring for the welfare state - not the rural settings. Rural people are far more self-sufficient than those in urban settings. You don't find panhandlers going from farmhouse to farmhouse...
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                • Posted by $ Snezzy 7 years, 3 months ago
                  Some of them do, one way or another, not begging for spare change, but taking handouts nonetheless.

                  We have allowed about five or six of them, all of whom we thought were friends until we found out otherwise, to stay with us for a while. Crooks all. Sometimes sweet and loving crooks, buying us gifts with stolen money (some stolen from us), occasionally helping us around the farm. But still crooks.

                  I used to be for phasing out the "welfare" schemes slowly. Now I think it would be better to end them as fast as possible. Who would pick up the slack? Why the churches, and (one hopes) the do-gooders who currently clamor for my money.
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                • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 3 months ago
                  If the majority of urban and rural citizens wants lower spending, it's shame spending keeps growing. It's easier to lobby for spending that benefits one's self than to lobby for across-the-board cuts. Politicians who want to be reelected need to find a way divide people into groups (e.g. urban/rural) and blame the other group. Telling people to tighten their belts doesn't work politically.
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      • Posted by Animal 7 years, 3 months ago
        I think you may have the cause/effect reversed. I think the tendency precedes the lifestyle choice, not the other way around.

        Rural living tends to attract the self-reliant, folks who want to live quietly and be left alone. Urban living tends to attract people with the opposite tendencies.
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        • Posted by $ 7 years, 3 months ago
          Perhaps, but I also have observed that many who are given the opportunity to grow their own food tend to realize what they have heretofore taken for granted. I think there is something profoundly philosophical in gardening.
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          • Posted by Dobrien 7 years, 3 months ago
            The experience I have with the garden harvest and fishing are similar. I get a satisfaction(happiness) of results from intended actions with an objective in mind.
            With those efforts, the quality is as good as it gets.
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      • Posted by term2 7 years, 3 months ago
        I have recently been reading about minimalism after watching a netflix documentary by the same name. Basic tenet is that everything in your life should be judged by the net improvement that it brings to your life. I suspect the rural dwellers are happier and are less distracted from real living by dealing with the complexities of urban living.
        I would go for a dissolution of the USA federal government and a return to free states, perhaps relegating the federal government to the role of enhancing commerce between the states, and maybe arranging for some sort of common defense in the event one state was invaded by some foreign power.
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      • Posted by fredtyg 7 years, 3 months ago
        I came to the conclusion a while back that the reason big city dwellers tend to be liberal and Democrats is they live in big cities because they want to live somewhere where government takes care of everything.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 3 months ago
        "I do have to wonder what makes it about living in more rural areas"
        My thought is there are hundreds of little decisions like do we need rules about firing guns or playing loud music. If you live in the city, it's obvious we need some rules about it, and in the countryside it's obvious we don't. But the fed gov't has gotten so powerful, by taking money and giving it back to local gov'ts, orgs, and individuals that do what the fed gov't wants, that now we have to have national debates on things that should be local or personal decisions. Rural people have different interests urban people, so we end up with an asinine yelling match. The yelling match gets attention for commentators and politicians. Even if they know it's stupid, they don't have the luxury of taking the high road. The person who mails out fundraising letters warning rural people about the perils of urban people in charge or vice versa will win.

        The correct (IMHO of course) answer is for the fed govt to be limited in scope, and make these issues local.
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        • Posted by term2 7 years, 3 months ago
          Maybe we disband the federal government in its current form, and return ALL powers to the states, who can compete with each other for the best living conditions. Bad state and local governments would mean people would leave. Competition in government is a good thing, which we only have now by moving long distances to other countries.
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  • Posted by Donald-Brian-Lehoux 7 years, 3 months ago
    build the wall around them with NO GATES!!! Let them keep the illegal criminals, anchor babies and unemployed. Tax everything from them 35% just like from Mexico. The military can function like Gitmo in Cuba. Anti-gun state crime would be on the levels of Chicago in no time. Build the wall around them just in case they decide they decide to give us the criminals.
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