Socialists' Fake News - Emolument Clause of Constitution

Posted by dbhalling 3 years, 11 months ago to Politics
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The F___ing Socialists want to talk about Trump (who I hate). This whole story started by the exposure that Hillary was forcing foreign governments to pay to talk to her as Sec. of State.

It is amazing that Republicans are falling right into this diversion. The real question is did Hillary do this, did the Clinton Foundation pay for Chelsea's wedding, etc etc etc.
SOURCE URL: https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-emoluments-clause-its-text-meaning-and-application-to-donald-j-trump/


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  • Posted by coaldigger 3 years, 11 months ago
    It is difficult to consider these issues without emotions caused by the specific people involved, Trump, Obama the Clintons, etc. I am concerned when anyone that has accomplished success in private life is barred from holding public office without sacrificing their personal assets. America was an agrarian economy when Washington became president and he owned a large plantation. Some of his "assets" were even human beings yet his honesty and integrity gave creditability to the new nation and kept it together through the turbulent period of gestation. He didn't divest Mt Vernon or any of his other assets. Rightly or wrongly, the most important activity in the US is business. The actions of the government impacts business in every way. It would seem that sometime we might benefit having a leader that knew something about business and not just be a professional politician. Currently we are being lectured on economic policy by a bunch of hacks that have never managed a lemonade stand.
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  • Posted by $ Dobrien 3 years, 11 months ago
    I wish the writer who claimed overwhelming evidence that Russia interfered with the 2016 election would state that evidence.
    Everything that I have read said Russia hacked ,
    came from an unnamed official. What did they hack Hillary's private server.? What a surprise if so.
    Is it because now the FBI agree's?
    The people think voting machines were hacked an votes were change Do? In the Michigan recall many precincts in Clinton's favor couldn't be recounted because of irregularities, mostly because to many votes counted for the number of voters.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 3 years, 11 months ago
    The so called "blind trust" that people believe somehow prevents influencing our Chief Executive is a farce. Any investor is going to work to make the client wealthier by choosing healthy investments for the blind trust. I don't believe for a second that the investor won't be influenced by trends resulting from the President's decisions, which a business savvy President like Trump would be conscious of. The only way to insure absolute security from potential legal influence would be to require the President to give away all of his or her personal wealth.

    Even CEOs or board chairmen of companies don't always control the decision making process of a business. Shareholders and investors often drive the process. Removing Trump from the decision making process for all of his businesses is one part of reducing the possibility of undue foreign influence. Another could be to create (if they don't already exist) stock with no voting privileges and place his interest there. Premium shares without voting do exist. There are other mechanisms that can make it hard to induce influence without demanding the President divest himself of all wealth, but for the global, diverse Trump empire it isn't easy, which is why it's taking longer than Trump desired to announce the details of the plan.

    The Clinton Foundation investigation by the FBI is still underway, and I suspect when AG Sessions comes into office the pace will pick up. Right now the pending administration is trying to distance Trump himself from any Clinton prosecution so it doesn't appear to be partisan persecution.
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    • Posted by Herb7734 3 years, 11 months ago
      Let's be real.
      Blind trust or any other device cannot keep a President from knowing exactly what's going on if he wants to know. As a matter of fact, he'd probably know more than before he was in office. The man has resources and undercover persons at his fingertips. So, either you trust him not to be self-serving or you don't. One thing for sure, had the Clinton woman been elected it would be Katy bar the door. She'd walk away a billionaire for sure without producing a thing.
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      • Posted by $ Dobrien 3 years, 11 months ago
        So true Herb , it really boils down to ethics and morals. I don't know for sure ,but Trump has all the luxuries that he or his family will ever need.
        So what I hope is that his ego drives him to be seen historically as a great leader and President who put the country on a better path.
        Clintons are looters ,shakedown artists and frauds.
        Of course that is kind description.
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    • Posted by $ Dobrien 3 years, 11 months ago
      Hi Dr Zarkov99,
      I believe you meant to say financial advisor not investor. In the case of the Donald he never has been a big stock investor . I am not in disagreement with your premise . Trump himself will have to be ethical and have a strong moral compass to assure he doesn't benefit from his policies .

      His investments in public companies amounted to less than 5% of his assets and they have been sold or liquidated. So in his situation (cash and private co.) the Chairman of the board (him) controls all the business decisions unless he has authorized an employee but it still is his total control.

      Non voting stock is a moot point since there are no other public shareholders.
      In my understanding usually non voting stock often called class b shares are for the public as it allows the controlling share holders to sell stock without diluting their control.

      See Donald Trump sold all of his stock holdings in June, a transition spokesman said Tuesday, potentially helping the president-elect avoid some conflicts of interest when he takes office in January.Dec 6, 2016

      With a net worth estimated by Forbes to be $3.7 billion after liquidating his stock portfolio his proceeds were aprx $186 million liquid cash that is less than 5% of his net worth. The rest of his assets are in his private real estate co.s and affiliates along with a Boeing Jet plus afew very valuable homes In Trump tower and Palm Beach, Fl.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 3 years, 11 months ago
      " Any investor is going to work to make the client wealthier by choosing healthy investments for the blind trust."
      Are you saying choosing healthy investments is the same as the investor working together with the POTUS?
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 3 years, 11 months ago
    Your right...hiltery and billy bob too...vilolated the law big time. However, I don't see how trumpet is going to comply other than signing over or selling his businesses to a natural party.

    I did catch: The "Prophylactic" rule and wondered if anyone made a big enough prophylactic to cover all of washington dc.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 3 years, 11 months ago
    Both sets of questions are valid, and important. It is falling into a false dichotomy to declare for one side or against another in this. (And it is not "fake news." It is an opinion.)

    I am pretty good at the Constitution. I just gave an edition of The Federalist Papers to a co-worker because it has the best concordance to the Constitution that know of among the many editions of this collection. But I am also sure that most people here think that they, too, know the Constitution. The touchstone, however, are the discussions we have here that are long on opinion and short on citations to articles and sections.

    So, too, in this case. I do not find a violation of the Emoluments clause in either the Trump or Clinton enterprises. But that is because I keep to a strict interpretation of the Constitution.

    These American scientists, who are employed by Federal agencies, are members of the Royal Society of the UK.

    AXELROD, Dr Julius.[1979] National Institute of Mental Health, Building 36, Room 3A-15, 9000 Rockville Pike, Bethesda, Maryland 20592, USA. (Fax: +1 (301) 402-1748). Nobel Laureate, Physiology or Medicine, 1970.

    PRESS, Professor Frank. [1985] Formerly President of the United States National Academy of Sciences. Suite #616 South, 2500 Virginia Avenue N.W., Washington, DC 20037-1901, USA. (Tel: +1 (202) 342-2025; email: fpress@nas.edu; Fax: +1 (202) 342-2407)

    Over 50 others are employed at foundations and universities. Some of those schools, such as the University of Texas, are tax-funded at the state level and also receive federal funds. You might argue that a strict interpretation of the Constitution allows a state governor to be name a foreign prince. I am not so sure that the clause could not be incorporated to the states, as were many Amendments of the Bill of Rights.

    http://vrijmetselaarsgilde.eu/Maconni...

    The humor in the award aside, should the Emoluments clause have prevented Nobel Peace Prizes to Henry Kissinger and Barack Obama... or any similar prize to any American scientist from a federally-funded program?
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  • Posted by $ ObjectiveAnalyst 3 years, 11 months ago
    If Trump uses his position as POTUS for personal gain by virtue of granting special government favors only available to him by virtue of his position, to foreign governments or nationals, then the clause seems applicable. If on the other hand he is enriched by foreigners because of his personal business relations/dealings standing alone on their own, without government influence then the spirit of the law seems to me to be upheld.

    Yes the diversion tactic is working, because the Republicans are largely incapable of making the moral argument and all too sensitive to the media narratives. Also, many of them are defensive because their hands are not clean either.
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 3 years, 11 months ago
    The Clintons' blatant conflicts of interest pretty much insulate Trump from Constitutional objections to his business dealings. After taking office, Trump will almost certainly engage in whatever business behavior he deems appropriate.
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  • Posted by mccannon01 3 years, 11 months ago
    I understand the common sense reason behind the emoluments clause, but in the case of Trump the only image that nags me is the salivating of the looters as Hank Rearden was forced to liquidate his businesses.
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  • Posted by andrewtroy 3 years, 11 months ago
    Indeed, the looters are lining up for the feast. A powerful and convincing argument if looked at from a certain slant. I read the entire paper, and particularly enjoyed the references to the Founders and their original intent. Otherwise, the vast majority of sources were from someone named Teachout and his book(s), The New York Times, Washington Post, and Politico. I do understand db's socialist concerns!!
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  • Posted by strugatsky 3 years, 11 months ago
    Why are we discussing an obvious liberal last straw comment, just as they sink due to total moral collapse? Why are we wasting our energy? The libtards' "think tanks" have really become safe spaces for adolescents; let them blow hot air all they want.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 3 years, 11 months ago
    It might be the free market at work. "... forcing foreign governments to pay to talk to her as Sec. of State." I mean, money would be one way to measure just how important this discussion is, as opposed to a social call... If you want a capitalist government, you should think through what that means... Maybe, like the income tax and direct election of the Senate, the Emolument Clause should not be in a new, Objective constitution.

    (And what about John Paul Jones serving in Russia? ... or the Flying Tigers working for China? ... In fact, many American soldiers received military decorations from foreign governments. Gen. George S. Patton was granted 14 of them, Gen. Colin Powell seven, Gen. James "Mad Dog" Mattis three.)
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    • Posted by Herb7734 3 years, 11 months ago
      I hope I understand you. It appears as if your first paragraph is satire but your second paragraph is revealing the truth. So..someone sent you a -1 but I'll go for a +1 for being a truth teller.
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      • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 3 years, 11 months ago
        Thanks, Herb. Para 1 was just open speculation. It was humorous, perhaps satirical. But, really, if you know science fiction, then you might recall that in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress Robert Heinlein suggested paying legislators a million credits a year, but making them pay for programs out of their own salaries. Just sayin' there's lots of ways to do things and capitalism offers some opportunities...

        It was blatant of her to hit them up for cash, but, really, how is that different from a foreign (government) university giving her an honorary doctorate, or otherwise draping an honor over her shoulders?
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