Galt's Gulch

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  • Posted by coaldigger 7 years, 4 months ago
    There is a big difference from liking Atlas Shrugged to accepting the philosophy of Objectivity. It is, however, a huge improvement over someone that has not read it or who read it and hated it. The appeal of the story in the novel is to people that produce and take pride in their accomplishments. The philosophy takes time and study.

    My first impression was that I liked the ideas but felt unworthy in the presence of the heroes. The second reading, I skipped over the monologues. Before a third reading, I read Barbra Brandon's biography of Ayn Rand and realized that Rand was a philosopher, thinker, mentor and a real life person, flaws and all. Then I had read "Philosophy Who Needs It ?" and "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal" and it began to make some sense to me. The fourth time I read AS was during a dark period when I needed the message to justify being crushed for standing on principles. The fifth reading was to get it all fresh in my mind prior to the movies.

    I don't think Rex Tillerson has gone through all those steps so he can be forgiven for not being "pure" but it is encouraging to know he has taken the first step.
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    • Posted by term2 7 years, 4 months ago
      Its a good thing that he knows a lot of leaders of other countries. That means he can pick up the phone and call them to discuss issues, and they will take the call.
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      • Posted by ChuckyBob 7 years, 4 months ago
        I SERIOUSLY doubt that you will ever see him pull a stunt like the fake "reset button." When he speaks the leaders of all the countries will know he means business.
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        • Posted by philosophercat 7 years, 4 months ago
          But they wont know what he means next month. He cant integrate ideas. He said his brain is his best advisor....AR would tell him to use reason and observer reality neither of which is he any good at. He is the ultimate Mr. Thompson, "I told those boys Mr. Galt that you would make a deal."
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          • Posted by $ jbrenner 7 years, 4 months ago
            Trump actually is an excellent observer of reality, and especially of human nature.
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            • Posted by philosophercat 7 years, 4 months ago
              False: he is an excellent observer of other peoples weaknesses and value to him. He is a terrible observer of reality because he cannot form categories, has no morality, doesn't understand force and thinks knowledge is what is in his head. Syria will be his first test when Assad gives Putin title to land for a vast naval base that will allow the Crimea bases and the Syrian bases to cut Turkey in half for NATO. How will he confront China on the seven bases in the South China Sea and how will he "deal" with Castro.
              AS for reality look at his Architecture. Its terrible schlock. He is a bottom feeder in ideas and art. and the reality that can elevate them to greatness.
              Russia and Iran have strategic visions that meet in Syria which puts them both on the Mediterranean and splits Turkey. How will he cut a deal with two dictators who share a strategic vision? At worst Trump is just a 4 year obstacle to Putin.
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              • Posted by $ jbrenner 7 years, 4 months ago
                Being an excellent observer of other people's weaknesses is part of being an excellent observer of reality. Moreover, being an excellent observer of other people's weaknesses is evidence of his being an excellent observer of human nature. You have defeated ... yourself.

                He understands force very well. Just because he uses force doesn't mean he doesn't understand it (nor does it mean that I agree with his use of it).

                You obviously have never played any of his golf courses, or else you would have a different opinion of his architecture.

                We'll see with regard to Trump's foreign policy. Unless America is directly attacked, I think Trump will just let the Syrians kill each other off. If America is directly attacked, he will retaliate very quickly and decisively, albeit probably without sufficient forethought.
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                • Posted by philosophercat 7 years, 4 months ago
                  Wow, His expertise as you describe it is all psychological and that in no way says he can perceive the facts of reality independently. I don't defeat myself I just make you be more precise.
                  I am a golf course designer and architect, and his Architecture is terrible. He has never used force but has been adept at political power. The real test is he a Chamberlain or a Churchill? One was a politician who believed he could influence the guy across the table to achieve his goals and the other a great writer and historian who knew he had to crush the other guy. And as Kennedy said, and Sorensen wrote, "Marshaled the English language and sent it into war" and to victory. As Hannah Arendt said, he brought the morality of the 19th century to rescue the 20th.
                  Trump is puny .but that doesn't mean he cant sign checks and fire people.
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                  • Posted by $ jbrenner 7 years, 4 months ago
                    We'll see. I don't think he will be like either a Chamberlain or a Churchill. He will probably be more like Teddy Roosevelt (other than speaking softly - which TR didn't do either), someone whom I have very mixed opinions about but mostly negative.

                    Trump is a lot more intelligent than you or most people give him credit for.

                    As for morality, his morality is admittedly not the same as mine. His morality is consistent with what ever is in his self-interest.
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                    • Posted by philosophercat 7 years, 4 months ago
                      I have followed Trump for over 30 years ain real estate and have no problem with his intelligence but with his limited content, lack of ability to reason, and lack of morality. He has no morality of self interest. You need to understand the difference between holding oneself as a value in a rational hierarchical system of values and holding oneself as the standard of the good. His negotiating method is the same as mine and is very rational but it does not take a genius to pay attention to the other persons goals.
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    • Posted by unitedlc 7 years, 4 months ago
      "There is a big difference from liking Atlas Shrugged to accepting the philosophy of Objectivity."- Yes, but if the article is accurate, it states that it is his "favorite" book. He didn't just like it. Someone who is not a pretty staunch believer in Rand's philosophies is not going to pick this book to be their "favorite" because of the writing style. It can be a slow read at times, and the dialogue can drag on to the point of ridiculousness (Galt's speech, etc.). As a true believer in Rand's philosophy, one can truly enjoy the excessive words, but a non-subscriber will not have the fortitude to endure the entire book with utter enjoyment. That being said, this news gives me hope!
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  • Posted by Madanthonywayne 7 years, 4 months ago
    Love the description of the book from the above linked article:

    "If you're not familiar with the novel, it depicts a world where corporate CEOs and one-percenters are the selfless heroes upon which our society depends," Salon writes, "and basically everyone else — journalists, legislators, government employees, the poor — are the villains trying to drag the rich down out of spite, when we should be kissing their rings in gratitude that they allow us to exist."
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    • Posted by fosterj717 7 years, 4 months ago
      I think that view misses the point of what the book really said. Yes, it is about producers producing and enjoying the fruits of their labor etc. however it also highlights that humanity gains from those benefits as well.

      Yes, if CEO's (not so much), inventors and visionaries (more to the point) are allowed to enjoy the benefits of their labors and ideas, and become wealthy because of those efforts, they put forth, all of humanity benefits as well through the creation of jobs and those things that make life better for everyone!

      It is when you regulate and tax the producers to the point where there is no good reason to produce that the evil as highlighted in the book becomes evident! Overbearing government helps no one.

      The premise is simple yet eloquent and readily apparent to those who understand the nature of overbearing, top down, command and control government and how the masses are manipulated by the thought that one can get something for nothing. Or that wealth is a "zero sum" game.

      It is in this context that the contrast between producers and moochers is best demonstrated exacerbated by an overbearing, corrupt and out of touch government.

      Therefore, if Tillerson has been so influenced, by this book, then there is hope that the forces of the market can again come into play such as was started in the 1980's where all benefited.
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    • Posted by $ jbrenner 7 years, 4 months ago
      One of the few things that is accurate in the article.
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      • Posted by roneida 7 years, 4 months ago
        I notice that the "High Minded" snob who wrote the typical socialist garbage against "Atlas", doesn't mind plugging a sale for the filthy money. Typical 20 page reader who is SO special they have it all figured out without thinking about any of it. God Bless" President Trump and Ayn Rand../
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        • Posted by $ jbrenner 7 years, 4 months ago
          I doubt Rand would accept such a blessing for at least two reasons.
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          • Posted by roneida 7 years, 4 months ago
            Undoubtedly you are correct...you seem so sure. I was never acquainted with Ms. Rand myself and I am not a follower of any superstition or religion... I never heard that a blesse had a choice of accepting a "God Bless" always something new to learn...
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            • Posted by $ jbrenner 7 years, 4 months ago
              1) Rand rejected the concept of a deity.
              2) Rand did not accept the unearned.
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              • Posted by roneida 7 years, 4 months ago
                Rand was perfectly within her rights to reject any concepts she deemed unworthy of her approval. Let's hope God returned the courtesy of her views.
                I never met Ms. Rand nor had the opportunity to discuss these "concepts" with her,;. you are indeed fortunate...
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      • Posted by lrshultis 7 years, 4 months ago
        Rand would not have considered them as 'selfless heroes' but as 'selfish heroes' who have active thinking selves who do not say 'give me' or 'do this form me'. They are self directed, not me directed.
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  • Posted by philosophercat 7 years, 4 months ago
    The description tells the story of the media and academic world in the time of "Post-truth." Even out of date "Analytic" philosophers would at least try and give a "true" description of its fundamental ideas. But its nice to know that he read it and admired it and now lets hope he understands it.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 4 months ago
    Anyone who loves Atlas can't be all bad. I've looked up the new Mr. T. and I think he's going to create a new definition for the Secretary of State. This guy is a whiz at foreign dealing. He will easily put the Wicked Witch and the Frankenstein monster wannabe to shame.
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    • Posted by Dobrien 7 years, 4 months ago
      Plus he is not part of the CFR. I have heard that he knows Putin thru negotiating deals for XOM. I think that is a good thing. You don't get to be the top dog at ExxonMobil without being brilliant.
      I am so happy as I have always wondered why the greatest country in the history of the world never had world class leaders. Now I can witness what this country can really be.
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  • Posted by $ Susanne 7 years, 4 months ago
    If you look at most of Trump's current appointments, and at the man himself, I would make a guess that he could well be a fan of AS... If YOU were in his shoes, would you rather have a gaggle of politicos that have worked hard to maintain the status quo in YOUR cabinet, or a group of successful, well heeled businesspeople?

    Some are scared to death of these appointments - most recently his nomination of a modern day Ellis Wyatt as his SOS - but to me, it's almost as if for some positions, he is going by Ayn's post-collapse post-Gulch playbook for his leadership.

    My question is this - does he see himself as Hank Rearden, John Galt, or Francisco D'Ancona? --grins-- And who will be his first Supreme oOurt nominee? I would say... find the current analogue to Judge Narrangansett...
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    • Posted by philosophercat 7 years, 4 months ago
      None of the above. He is an amoral pragmatist who cannot tell by principles what is right and wrong. If it works for him its good and visa versa. He is confident of his ability to get what he wants from another person but has never ventured into the world of ideas and cannot conceive of acting on principles. Putin is his equal but is comfortable in using his military ruthlessly and with Trump unable to deal with Putin you can kiss Eastern Europe and the Baltics good-bye.
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      • Posted by $ Susanne 7 years, 4 months ago
        Following that, he would then see himself not as Roark, but Thompson (or at least Cuffy Meigs)... looking for James Taggarts and Wesley Mouches as his cabinet appointees and hoping to find a Jim Taggart as SoS... I just don't see that. He may be a tough, no nonsense business man that may not be the worlds most likeable guy, but as to mooching from another to get what he wants? Doesn't seem like his style.

        Just my opinions, BTW...
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        • Posted by philosophercat 7 years, 4 months ago
          Think of him as a Gail Wynand; able to recognize talent and strong personalities but unable to be their moral or intellectual equal. This is when Trump tries to do good and finds out he doesn't know what it is or how to do it.
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          • Posted by $ jbrenner 7 years, 4 months ago
            We'll see. He could be a Gail Wynand, but he might turn out to be the best US president in 200 years and likely will be at least the second best president in my lifetime.
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            • Posted by $ Susanne 7 years, 4 months ago
              Or the worst. He IS an absolute unknown at this point, so I won't ascribe him to sainthood until he proves he's up to the job, doesn't become another Carter or W, or worse, a Roosevelt.
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              • Posted by $ jbrenner 7 years, 4 months ago
                Unlike some people here, I have followed Trump since even before his days owning the New Jersey Generals. He is not an unknown quantity, and is extremely predictable once you understand his thinking.

                What most people don't realize is his propensity for doing things to throw people off track. He is wily like a fox. He does this as a means of disarming his enemies. He has taken the most memorable line from The Godfather, and made it his own. "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer."

                Sainthood would be looked down upon in the Gulch anyway, so I won't ascribe either sainthood or its opposite to him.
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    • Posted by term2 7 years, 4 months ago
      I think Trump is considering his job now as just running a bigger enterprise than his Trump Intl one. I, for one, am willing to give him a chance. The last president was a joke
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  • Posted by $ Radio_Randy 7 years, 4 months ago
    My favorite movie(s) is the Lord of The Rings trilogy...that doesn't make me any less a realist.

    Gotta pin some kind of label on the anti-Left crowd.
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  • Posted by wiggys 7 years, 4 months ago
    big deal. let us see what things in OUR country are like in one year. I have no interest in the ret of the world like I have no particular interest in the welfare of my neighbors, their life is theirs to do with as the please. If this guy is able to make things better for us he has my support but until then he has a job to do and how well he does it remains to be seen.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 4 months ago
    Looks like the Indians have more respect for Rand than most .Americans, although it baffles me why anyone would quote Salon on anything of unbiased substance.
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