The Trump Effect? After Carrier pledge to keep jobs in US, more companies may follow

Posted by mminnick 7 years, 4 months ago to News
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Not even sworn in yet and having positive effect in the country and perhaps even abroad.
It seems as if he is channeling a little bit of Howard Roark perhaps?
Not saying he is an Objectivist or even knows what Objectivism is. It just seems like he has a natural (perhaps cultivated) feel for it.
SOURCE URL: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/30/trump-effect-after-carrier-pledge-to-keep-jobs-in-us-more-companies-may-follow.html


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  • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 4 months ago
    Once in office, Trump will need to follow through with his declared policies to lower corporate taxes and roll back regulations. If he can accomplish this, many jobs will stay in or return to the U.S. for the right economic reasons, without Trump having to personally negotiate deals with companies such as Carrier.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 7 years, 4 months ago
    I don't think Trump should be threatening business-
    men for leaving the country; but if he recognizes
    their legitimate grievances (in time), we may be
    able to pull back from collapse. (Remember "We
    have no demands to make and no terms to bargain about"? Atlas Shrugged).
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  • Posted by brs02 7 years, 4 months ago
    The morale of the story is to threaten to leave and hold out for a special deal.... It's still crony capitalism. Lower the tax rate for all and reduce regulation.
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    • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 7 years, 4 months ago
      Hello brs02,
      I quite concur. The POTUS (or " ...Elect") should confer with these companies if necessary, only to discover their reasons for leaving. If relief is needed in order to stay it should be made universal; otherwise it is still crony capitalism. "Special deals" should be verboten!
      Respectfully,
      O.A.
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    • Posted by ScaryBlackRifle 7 years, 4 months ago
      There are some converging currents. Forbes forecasts the US to be the best place on the planet to do business in 2020. The proposed reduction in corporate taxes across the board. The loss of gov't. contracts if Carrier cannot demonstrate sufficient US made content and the good-will (read: sales) from changing their minds.

      None of that is crony capitalism.
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 4 months ago
    Hey, I'll stay if the government here buys me off and pays the difference between labor here and labor in mexico.

    Its not sustainable unless we automate more in the USA, OR cut wages here to match the productivity of the rest of the world.
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    • Posted by $ Abaco 7 years, 4 months ago
      We certainly must start cutting red tape, slashing regulations and destroying taxes. ASAP
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      • Posted by term2 7 years, 4 months ago
        Definitely. Draining the swamp should result in substantial savings, and it could be carried out from top to bottom. Customs is a great area to work on for Trump. It takes longer for shipments from china to clear customs than it takes for the boat to arrive in LA from China !! And I think what they really spend the time on is looking for drugs. Pretty dumb I think.
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    • Posted by ewv 7 years, 4 months ago
      You would be "bought off" by government? There are always strings attached and that kind of system leaves everyone, including you, subject to punishment by this or a future president wielding the cronyism for other pressure groups. It's wrong in principle.
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      • Posted by term2 7 years, 4 months ago
        Actually I was indicating the real reasons carrier saw the "light" and reversed their decision it was bribes and threats they could lose government contracts or face the wrath of government

        I didn't mean I would actually fall for a government trap like that. I should have been clearer in what I wrote
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        • Posted by ewv 7 years, 4 months ago
          Yes, you wrote "I'll stay if ..." The "light" they saw is the train coming towards them in the tunnel. But threats aside, we can wonder how many of their executives harbor the views of the passengers in the Taggart tunnel disaster.
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  • Posted by $ alexmironov 7 years, 4 months ago
    Mr. Trump benefits in the form of the positive public opinion. To the public it appears that he is very quickly delivering on his promise to keep jobs in the US. The value to Mr. Trump is the quantifiable approval rating. What is the value offered as the payment? Well, there is only one thing a government can offer: force. Mr. Trump and his government will force the US taxpayers to pay for more expensive goods and services. Mr. Trump is no Howard Roark here. He is James Taggart, the aristocrat of pull.
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    • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 4 months ago
      Not entirely true. Trump is advocating a meaningful reduction in the corporate income tax and a massive rollback of regulations. This will make the U.S. more competitive in the global economy. As for tariffs, I will wait to see what he actually does before passing judgment.
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      • Posted by ewv 7 years, 4 months ago
        He's also threatened to raise taxes on companies that leave. He just said that companies "will not leave" because he is going to make it "very difficult". The president is not supposed to make unilateral pronouncements dictating to private businesses and threatening to exploit tax policy to manipulate economic decisions. He is intimidating, not negotiating. He has nothing to offer but the use of force.
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        • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 4 months ago
          His policies are a mixed bag, but a deep corporate tax cut and meaningful deregulation are not "nothing".
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          • Posted by ewv 7 years, 4 months ago
            His policies and his methods are mixed. He is an open bully who intimidates and threatens in the name of "negotiating". No government official has the right to dictate to private citizens they way he threatens and aspires to wield power. If Congress votes to lower taxes and controls under his influence as the party leader that is good, but it doesn't make Trump or the mindless Trump idolatry that unquestioningly accepts his dictatorial loutishness any less frightening.
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            • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 4 months ago
              Trump doesn't frighten me, although I suppose it's possible he might in the future. What was very frightening until last month was contemplating our future under Hillary. Glass half full.
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              • Posted by ewv 7 years, 4 months ago
                Legitimate fear of Clinton is not a justification for Trump for what he is. The political-financial-ideological corruption in Clinton and her radical collectivist-statist agenda had to go, but that is not a reason to embrace a bully and a loutish demagog to run the government.

                You should be afraid of Trump, but more frightening for the future is the large number of followers who mindlessly supported the 'man on the white horse' without regard for principles, not to oppose Clinton when in the primaries there were other candidates, but for what Trump is.

                "'Mr. Thompson will put an end to those sinister forces whose purpose is to keep us in terror and despair. He will bring light into the darkness of the world and will show us the way out of our tragic problems—a stern way, as befits the gravity of this hour, but a way of glory, as granted by the rebirth of light'... 'Have faith! Listen to Mr. Thompson!' said voices in churches. 'Mr. Thompson will give you the answer!'"
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                • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 4 months ago
                  There’s quite a bit of daylight between Trump and “Mr. Thompson”. Most of the “voices in churches” were for Hillary. Both candidates promised us a brighter tomorrow, as candidates have been doing since the dawn of politics.

                  The “mindless support of the 'man on the white horse' without regard for principles” was easily exceeded by the “mindless support of the 'woman in the pantsuit' without regard for principles.” Her more fervent supporters racked up far more incidents of actual bullying than Trump’s, and this included her campaign sending people to disrupt his rallies, with her supporters forcing cancellation of at least one and possibly more. Trump’s “bullying” was verbal and most of it was directed at the mainstream media and the establishment candidates, who were engaged in bullying and underhanded tactics of their own. Theirs’ was simply more subtle.

                  I agree that “Clinton and her radical collectivist-statist agenda had to go,” but she likely would have prevailed over a more polite and politically correct Republican opponent.
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          • Posted by term2 7 years, 4 months ago
            Agreed. Bullying and paying off carrier isn't what we need in government. By selling to government on the other hand, united technologies asked for it
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            • Posted by ewv 7 years, 4 months ago
              Legitimate defense work is not asking to be bullied. What other motives UT executives might have had in dealing with the government are another matter.
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      • Posted by $ alexmironov 7 years, 4 months ago
        My understanding was that an agreement was already achieved whereby Carrier pledged to stay in the US. I seriously doubt that Carrier committed in exchange for Trump "advocating". It remains to be seen whether any tax reductions or regulation rollbacks will take place. What we do know, however, is that Mr. Trump is very well versed in trading favors and special privileges, which were the basis of his relative business success.
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  • Posted by coaldigger 7 years, 4 months ago
    I am curious about what "deal" is with Carrier. I saw this article from ARI and thought I would get a summary:

    https://www.aei.org/publication/the-c...
    All I got was a diatribe based on allegations of what might be in the deal. This is why it is so difficult to judge Trump. It seems that he has pissed off every one with a pencil and they have scribbled every distortion of his every move they can imagine. If I were he I would be asking companies why they were leaving and asking that they wait a while to see if I could create a better climate for business. The list of stupid anti-business regulations, taxes and laws is a long one and there are bound to be some that are causes for leaving. There is no need to threaten or payoff anyone until we have eliminated these self destructive acts.
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    • Posted by ewv 7 years, 4 months ago
      It's up to Trump to articulate what he's doing. You know what he has been threatening for months and that he is actively using government power to manipulate private companies -- while his followers rationalize by projecting all kinds of excusing motives that Trump does not say and does not understand. The article you cited, which was not from ARI but the American Enterprise Institute, cited provisions reported by others

      If we don't know first hand the details of what is in Trump's 'deal', Carrier doesn't know either. Government threats and 'offers' always leave insinuations for the future implicit but clear in principle -- it's like calling a "protection racket" protection, when everyone knows what it is without the 'offer' having to spell out the details. What is clear about the Trump/Pence 'deal' is that it is intentionally anti-free market government 'good cop - bad cop' bribes and intimidation. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/...
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      • Posted by coaldigger 7 years, 4 months ago
        I understand what you are saying and consider Trump to be less than honest in how he generalizes and is intentionally non-specific. I am not sure if he has no ideology or is hiding one.

        I made a Freudian slip on the reference but at least I never cite the New York Times. Ha. Ha.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 4 months ago
    I'm still a doubter - kinda.
    But if I put up two columns, one titled Wins and another titled Losses, the Trump's Win column would be ahead, so far. All I can do is stand on the sidelines and cheer him on.
    "Hey, hey, wadda ya say?
    You go get 'em Donald J."
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  • Posted by Temlakos 7 years, 4 months ago
    Word is Trump made a subtly courteous threat to terminate, or not to renew, multiple millions of dollars worth of government contracts with Carrier's parent company, United Technologies. And I must say I approve. The country is more secure if it relies on products made in-country.
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    • Posted by ewv 7 years, 4 months ago
      What is the connection between Carrier's specific operation moved out of the country and the specific UT product used for defense? If there is a connection it hasn't been mentioned as the reason for Trump's threat.
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      • Posted by term2 7 years, 4 months ago
        Carrier is owned by united technologies, a big govt contractor. Trump has been pounding on carrier for moving to Mexico for months where wages are $3 an hour instead of $26 an hour in Indiana
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        • Posted by ewv 7 years, 4 months ago
          And where they don't have to contend with the EPA and the IRS. Trump's months of threats didn't mention anything about defense contractor security, and no one has yet demonstrated that there would be such a problem. What else UT does with the government is not relevant.
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      • Posted by Temlakos 7 years, 4 months ago
        Only one connection: United Technologies has a lot of lucrative federal contracts. Carrier is a wholly-owned subsidiary of United Technologies. So anything that Carrier does, reflects on United Technologies.
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        • Posted by ewv 7 years, 4 months ago
          "Reflecting" does not mean that Carrier would be doing defense work out of the country, and being active outside the US to escape punishment does not "reflect" badly on anyone except the source of the punishment, other than in the mind of Donald Trump. Whether or not they actually would be engaging in defense work out of the country was not Trump's consideration. He's pursuing a shake down to use government power to dictate to private companies, "curing" problems caused by government controls with more government controls in the usual pattern of progressively increasing statism, in this case with authority he does not have.
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          • Posted by Temlakos 7 years, 4 months ago
            Except the part of the deal I don't think you can see, is his pledge to address those other government controls.

            The other part is that routes of import and export present a military security problem.
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            • Posted by ewv 7 years, 4 months ago
              The Trump idolatry does not recognize that he has said nothing about limiting government powers and protecting the rights and freedom of individuals. All of his "reform" is cast in terms of better "deals".

              He said nothing about Carrier being a security problem, only "jobs". Nor has anyone else explained how Carrier's operation under attack by Trump is a security problem. The subsidiary of UT that makes jet engines is Pratt & Whitney.
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  • Posted by JuliBMe 7 years, 4 months ago
    While, yes, this will help, it is still only a band-aid. We still have the underlying problem of treating some people differently from others. This is why I love the FairTax (it's just a name guys! No, it is NOT perfect). However, one thing it does is treat ALL in this country the same. The mess of tax code that is up for manipulation as evidenced by the Carrier deal needs to go!
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