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Cashless societies

Posted by $ jbrenner 7 years, 4 months ago to Economics
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Both Australia and India have taken strides toward a cashless society recently. What do you think of this?
SOURCE URL: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/11/indias-prime-minister-plans-for-cashless-society/


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    Posted by mminnick 7 years, 4 months ago
    When you have no cash and all is done electronically, you are at the mercy of those that control the electrons. If they make a mistake or do some deliberate harm to you "Money" it will be almost impossible to prove you have been wronged and to recover you money. If they say you have none in your account, you have none. If you have cash, you can prove you have money simpley by showing it.
    I realize this may seem farfetched, but just thnk about how the money in the banks disappeared at the time of the "Great Depression". People were gie pennies on the dollar for their money in the bank. Try getting nothing on the dollar in a true cashless society.
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    • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 4 months ago
      Great take mm, add to that an infrastructure crash!
      Then your down to barter for survival...that's why I say BOTH, what's wrong with BOTH?

      They can't Take when you have both...that's why.
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    • Posted by ycandrea 7 years, 4 months ago
      Yeh, but cash means nothing either. It is just script backed up by nothing. And it can be taken from you or made to have no value by the powers that be any time they wish. We will probably have to go back to real concrete values like gold or bartering goods.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 4 months ago
    One of the biggest problems with a cashless society is that it places all the power over the economy in the hands of the government via the big banks. They can inflate and manipulate the currency to their hearts content and there is no check on the system. They can create "money" out of thin air to use for their spending, yet criticize you when you want to transfer more than $10K.

    The other thing it allows is for vast data mining - and the control that comes with it. They now can sell all your buying habits to marketing companies. They can sell your political donations to political activist groups so you can be shamed, persecuted, and run out of your job.

    The last thing it does is vastly enrich the credit card companies. It's proven that there is a psychological pain that accompanies paying with cash that is not present when using virtual currency. This pain in parting with hard-earned fruits of one's labors leads one to more carefully evaluate the costs of wanted items and seek for better deals - or even not spend at all. Using virtual currency encourages the spendthrift and debt and discourages savings which then fuel investment in the future.

    No, I for one am 100% against virtual currencies.
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  • Posted by $ Susanne 7 years, 4 months ago
    I was listening to Beck last night talking about this... they brought in "negative interest", and for some reason they could not explain it, but that concept is simple - it's a tax, charged by a company, to hold your cashless credit quantity (I won't call it "money" as that's the one thing it's not)... For some reason people are up in arms thinking this is somehow new, but the concept of "service charges" by the banks for having an account there have been around for decades...

    What's new is the way that service charge is calculated - instead of being a flat monthly fee (say $34.95 a month), it's a percentage of what they're holding - say 1% So if your account has your businesses monthly payroll of $250,000, it costs you $2500 a month instead of $35 a month.

    And without the ability to pay and trade in cash, EVERYTHING you transact will be subject, not only to the taxes of the State, but the "fees" of the looter.

    Still wonder why they want a cashless society? It's a profitmaker for those banks that were bailed out as "too big to fail", except now they're making sure they have their hands in everyone's wallet, so they, by right of existence, be fed by you, whether you wish to feed them or not.

    In other words, it's a hell of a looters racket. Get rid of cash, and we get a cu of everything.

    Man, I betcha the old mobs wish THEY could have thought up a racket as sweet as what the new nobs (eg the bank/fed monopoly) thought up... all nice and tidy and legal.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 7 years, 4 months ago
    I really hate this. A paperless society strips away any degree of anonymity and allows the faceless unknown to freeze or steal what's rightfully yours and/or redirect your income from an employer.
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  • Posted by Technocracy 7 years, 4 months ago
    I hate it.

    It is the classic trading of freedom for convenience.

    There are so many many ways this could be abused, and not just by the government. Although the government will have the greediest hands in your account. Identity theft will be a growth industry for sure.
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  • Posted by RobertFl 7 years, 4 months ago
    Then the gov't will make it illegal to hold gold/silver.
    Then the gov't will be able to track everything you buy, or sell, and even allow or disallow it.

    Another reason for Bitcoin, and pursuing a reliable, Peer-2-peer mesh network.
    Of course, if the gov't blocks us from buying bitcoin then the only way you'll get them is by mining them, or trading them for goods or services.
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  • Posted by dbhalling 7 years, 4 months ago
    First of all the government should not be in the business of telling people what counts as money (legal tender laws). Because of these laws and the government attacking people's bank accounts without warrants, what would have been a good and useful technology is now feared (to be feared). The problem is not a cashless society, it is a government out of control.
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 4 months ago
    I think its an idea pushed by reckless governments who want complete control over our finances. First they got rid of the gold standard, with the result being massive money printing to fund their coffers. With cashless society, they can control our spending too with the result they can control the effects of their money printing better- and therefore do more of it.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 4 months ago
    Sweden is next...most likely by law.
    Last week, BOA stopped excepting cash in Australia.
    India is in turmoil.

    Can someone get a message to trumpet...Now this, is where we could use his strong man routine.

    Just think of working hard and having Nothing physical to represent that hard work...not a good thing for humans...just an infinitesimal, insignificant part of the collective...talk about breaking your spirit. Can you see where this would lead psychologically?

    Back to small denominations of gold and silver I say.
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  • Posted by JuliBMe 7 years, 4 months ago
    There would be no way to avoid onerous taxation with a cashless society as I assume is the point for government insisting on going that way.
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  • Posted by ChuckyBob 7 years, 4 months ago
    Some years ago the feds put a system in place to track credit card purchases. This was said to be set up so that they could track terrorist activity. We all know that the feds would NEVER abuse such a system (sarcasm). So, if a prudent prepper were to want to buy supplies they would do it with cash. However, if you buy guns, ammo, or large non-perishable food stocks with cash, that could also get you on the list.
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    • Posted by AMeador1 7 years, 4 months ago
      I have always though this to be conspiracy theory. I had a business for years that helped setup business to use computer based point of sale/inventory management systems that allowed the computers to perform credit card processing. None of the software that I ever worked with ever submitted anything to the credit card processing companies other than the amount of the transaction and the credit card information (name, card number, exp date, CVV number and so on). I have even worked on writing my own software to interface with these credit card processing systems and I can say on the backside - writing the software and working with the credit card processing software packages, that no data was ever being transmitted to them giving details of what was being purchased - and the businesses data (their account number, and such).

      Now, they could track the company the purchase was made from - which might give an indication as to what type of stuff might be being bought. But, look a stores like Amazon, Walmart, etc... they would have no clue what your are buying in those cases. Nope, I don't believe this angle - at least not at the level of detail that many people think they are getting.

      However, if they force digital currency - I suppose they could change regulations to begin forcing this level of detail so they could track every little thing. What would be your choice at that point with no non-digital currency to work with? None. Well, barter I suppose but that would be a big hindrance to people.
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      • Posted by $ 7 years, 4 months ago
        It's not a conspiracy theory if it is a fact. Cashless society coming soon.
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        • Posted by AMeador1 7 years, 4 months ago
          Did you ready my post and the post I replied to? I never said this cashless society issue is a conspiracy theory. I do believe the government is working on this. I've heard comments by people in congress suggesting that it is on their minds. I said I think that the government having already put a system in place to track details of credit card purchases is a conspiracy theory based on the details I explained in my post.
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  • Posted by AMeador1 7 years, 4 months ago
    I think the main concern is the redistribution aspect of a paperless system and negative interest rates. The government is effectively forcing people and companies with money to spend it - or loose it. It will do exactly as the Progressives/Socialists have wanted for a long time - take the assets of those with assets and force them to redistribute them to people with less.

    If you have a choice of loosing money to the bank/government for keeping your "money" there, you will spend it. Whether it's on higher payrolls, buying more physical goods, etc... you will not want to hold on to "money".

    I would assume the government would regulate this in a way where they get a certain portion of the negative interest collected by the banks as well. It would be income to them and thus taxable for sure.

    Just a big redistribution plan! Government trying to convince people it will not hurt them and that they are only after the criminals using large paper currency for illegal exchanges. The next thing you know, you are a criminal because of some obscure regulation in this plan and have your money confiscated or you're put in jail. If you play their game - then your wealth is redistributed. By the time people figure this out, they are in so far they won't know how to get out - especially if the government takes their guns first.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 7 years, 4 months ago
    Me dino is turned off by anyone who tries to look intellectual by pressing a finger to his head or mouth while posing for a photograph.
    The joke for the author of a crappy novel I once read posed like that for the inside of the back paperback cover.
    That out of the way, me dino would strongly recommend against there ever being a cashless society who is solely dependent on electronics.
    Back in the good old days before the telephone, the sun that libs won't blame for a climate created a solar flare actually melted telegraph lines. The effect of that event on a horse and buggy cash in every pocket civilized society was minimal.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=solar...
    Right now today? Such an event would be a complete catastrophic disaster.
    But that added to having no cash at all?
    Mad Max here we come!
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 7 years, 4 months ago
    Canada uses polymer bills, which are harder to counterfeit and last much longer than paper, with no denomination lower than five dollars (one and two dollar coins, though). Maybe this could be a good solution for the U.S.? The Canucks also dropped the penny for the same reason we should: it cost more than a penny to produce.
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  • Posted by chad 7 years, 4 months ago
    The problem with fiat currency is it can be taken from you by printing more and devaluing what you have in your possession (in Myanmar they would often announce which bills would be worthless on the morrow by giving out the serial number and much of the money disappeared by the next morning if you were caught with the wrong paper) where a coin of value cannot be devalued by government declaration. India recently announced at 8 pm one evening (when banks are closed) that all 500 & 1000 rupee notes would be worthless on the next morning at 8 am. Any currency in your possession was good for fire starter and not much more.
    If a bank did not engage in fractional banking (issuing more notes that it had coin to back) there would not have been receipt of pennies on the dollar, the bank would be able to account for every dollar it had or had loaned.
    Cashless means a new level of control, if the government does not like an individual it does not have to take him to court and prove its case, simply make his 'money' unavailable to him and he will become compliant if he wants food, energy, medical care.
    Storing coin of value in a vault is not necessarily a bad idea unless those who store it can find a way to steal it from you (fractional banking) or deny you access to anything of value to use in trade.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 4 months ago
    The free market should be providing MORE tools for exchange, not less. If government got out of the way, it would. There would be dozens of currencies to choose from and the federal currency would be as valuable as its media: paper or electrons.
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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 7 years, 4 months ago
    Hello jbrenner,
    A cashless society is a Big Brother government's dream. At it's most intrusive worst it can, without detection, invade your privacy and monitor spending patterns and know all too much about individuals, violating their 4th amendment rights. On it's most basic level it is a power-grab which always comes at the cost of Liberty.
    Regards,
    O.A.
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  • Posted by $ Commander 7 years, 4 months ago
    Hi Jim, It's been a while. The only thing I've not seen is "Invasion of privacy" stated boldly. This leads to the exchanges between you and AMeador1. I think the mechanism may be "FEDCOIN" in the US. There have been whispers but nothing substantive that I can bring forth. Being substantively in manufacturing, I'm buying silver and claiming non-disclosure under "Trade Secrets". "Their" rules not mine....LOL
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  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 4 months ago
    Here we go again. By controlling cash, the government controls you. In 60 years: Freedom? Oh yes, that was some obsolete philosophical concept.
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