If Stein, Clinton recount, Trump can recount MN

Posted by bubah1mau 4 years, 3 months ago to Politics
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Clinton won MN by about 45,000 votes and, of more than 400,000 foreign immigrants known to be living in MN, only 47 percent are citizens (https://www.minnpost.com/new-american....

How many undocumented illegals (who aren't counted among the known immigrant population living in MN) and how many of the 53% of documented immigrants who aren't citizens (many of whom are Somali Muslims and were encouraged by Obama's "no punishment for immigrants who try to vote" comments) actually were inspired to take their chances and found a way to vote for Clinton to increase their chances of obtaining permanent legal residence and increased government aid?

Wouldn't you do the same if you were living in MN illegally and were told by the President that there's no punishment for trying to vote for a candidate who will wave an executive wand to reward illegality or problematic visa status with governmentally subsidized, legal and permanent residence--a federally paved "path to citizenship?" (Wouldn't actively contributing to the prospect of your own governmentally insured security beat sitting around idly while someone threatening to deport your a$$ takes office--especially if you were organized and even paid by local ward heelers to take your chances?)
SOURCE URL: http://electionresults.sos.state.mn.us/Results/President/100?officeInElectionId=10733


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  • Posted by bspielb 4 years, 3 months ago
    I think it would be hilarious if they do the recount in MI and find out Trump won by more votes than originally awarded to him. Then MN Supervisor of Elections should call for a recount and find Clinton and Stein actually got less votes. MN should go through all of the registration roles to determine how many citizens and non-citizens were not eligible to vote but voted anyway. They should prosecute anyone regardless of citizenship status, race etc so there can be no challenge that any bias in prosecution exists. The Republicans currently control the MI legislature so the MI recount is unlikely anyway. Apparently Clintonstein missed many of the electoral region's recount request deadlines in MN so any recount there will be incomplete. Any recount changes in favor of Trump would be hilarious but it really is a pipe dream for either side to think these recounts will change anything significantly. They never have, for the most part, in a presidential election.
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  • Posted by JohnConnor352 4 years, 3 months ago
    Not going to get into the debate on undocumented immigrants and voting. There are too many unknowns there.

    However, I do have an interesting point involving vote counting in general. If you ask a statistician, he will tell you that recounting a very large sample, either by hand, machine, or computer, will not necessarily give you a more accurate number simply because it has been counted again. In fact, no matter how many times you recount, there is no guarantee that you will ever reach the actual correct number. In all of these technologies (or lack thereof) there is some error. I would say that the least error would be computer/electronic voting, then human counting, then machine counting with punch cards (infamous hanging chads, anyone?) would be the highest error. That error does not diminish with additional counting, unless you utilize a new method with less error, such as switching from machine to human,

    Here's a numbers example:

    You have to count 1,000,000 votes and determine how many were for A and how many were for B.
    The actual results are:
    A - 550,000
    B - 450,000

    If you were counting by machine, for instance, you would have a hypothetical error of, say, 3%. That means up to 30,000 votes could be miscounted (I hope real-life machines have a smaller margin of error than this).

    So, I ran a quick simulation with a random error of 3% built in, and here are the results we get:
    B.............A
    464,038....535,962
    436,542....563,458
    465,352....534,648
    437,618....562,382
    447,257....552,743
    453,465....546,535
    471,293....528,707
    467,901....532,099
    474,678....525,322
    449,572....550,428
    430,655....569,345
    427,589....572,411
    461,438....538,562
    433,108....566,892
    452,166....547,834
    431,716....568,284
    450,712....549,288
    458,960....541,040
    422,802....577,198
    452,711....547,289
    464,105....535,895
    421,560....578,440
    467,640....532,360
    438,534....561,466

    As you can see, continuing to recount does not get us closer and closer to the correct answer, it just fluctuates within the margin of error. Now, if we were to average these results, the more times we recounted, the closer we would get to the actual result:

    Recounts: 1
    Difference..Average
    -6.22%......422,020....B
    5.09%.......577,980....A

    Recounts: 5
    Difference..Average
    1.74%........457,833....B
    -1.42%.......542,167....A

    Recounts: 10
    Difference..Average
    -0.59%.......447,335....B
    0.48%........552,665....A

    Recounts: 20
    Difference..Average
    0.32%.........451,434....B
    -0.26%........548,566....A

    Recounts: 16,378
    Difference..Average
    -0.02%........449,910....B
    0.02%.........550,090....A


    So, in reality, all this hullabaloo over recounts is essentially meaningless unless it is done by a different method that has a demonstrably lower margin of error, or it is done several times and the results are averaged together.
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  • Posted by NealS 4 years, 3 months ago
    I almost wish a MN recount would actually happen just to establish an actual record of illegal voting to (try to) wake up those that vote blind.

    Now I'm actually very thankful for Trump's participation and election. Without Trump as a candidate, acting like a bull in a china shop, only a small portion of what we have learned in the last year would have come out. And Hillary would probably now be planning her continued rape of the common folks. Nothing would change. I think this Trump regime will expose a lot more that needs fixing in this government and help get us back to obeying the rules under our Constitution and Bill of Rights. We need a good reset once in a while and this is a perfect time.

    It's obvious the Dems have learned nothing, with the return of Nancy Pelosi as minority leader. She might turn out to be instrumental in bringing her party to it's knees, but only because of a Trump at the top. I pretty much believe in the old adage, "What goes around, comes around". Hopefully it still applies.
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  • Posted by term2 4 years, 3 months ago
    There would be thousand reasons that an election could be contested. Actual counting errors are definitely one of them, but I think those are SMALL in this day and age in the USA. But the people who lose an election "could eventually" propose that some citizens didnt read the ballot right and accidentally voted for the wrong person. Or they changed their mind after they got home and would have voted differently. Or they might have voted differently if they had known who won. Maybe they were sick or under the influence of pain killers (or other drugs). The list goes on and on of potential reasons for disputing an election.

    If we are going to have a country, elections need to be held on a certain day, the results are final except for real counting errors, and the rules about electoral college votes or popular votes or whatever being the basis for a win cant change AFTER the election. Enough is enough. I thought Sanders should have won the primary against Hildebeast, but he didnt and she was the candidate. Now that Trump has won a pretty convincing majority in the electoral college, we all need to just accept it and help him be a good president for everyone. He promised a number of good things, and he deserves a chance to make them happen. Keep our citizens safe domestically by somehow not letting radical islamic terrorists just walk in and kill us, make decent trade deals that are good for USA, cutting taxes and regulations to expand business opportunities, and draining the swamp (to the extent he can) and cutting corruption. Hillary wouldnt have done any of these things, so I am happy we dont have to endure her.
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  • Posted by ScaryBlackRifle 4 years, 3 months ago
    Fine idea, but 1) it looks like the Stein recount is doomed and 2) there are deadlines for filing recount paperwork. Not sure what the rules are in MN, but the clock is ticking.
    What is actually needed is a national AUDIT of the votes / cleaning of the voter lists. But I would estimate that to take, at a minimum, a year.
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    • Posted by term2 4 years, 3 months ago
      Given the near impossibility of a 100% accurate count being done in ANY election, I think that a candidate should have to win by some percentage that takes into account potential irregularities to be declared the winner. Also, the rules cant change AFTER the election. If the rule is for the electoral college to determine the election, then that needs to stand. If its popular vote, then that needs to stand. And the electoral college votes cant just change a month after the election because some elector doesnt want to honor the will of the people.
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    • Posted by bspielb 4 years, 3 months ago
      The audit is badly needed in almost every single voting district in the country. The biggest problem with doing it is the cost to all the counties and parishes around the country that are running deficit budgets as it is. The time is indeed a problem. With the next round of local elections in 2017 and national in 2018 by the time the audit was complete the new round of voter registrations would start and all the illegal voters would register again anyway.
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  • Posted by $ Dobrien 4 years, 3 months ago
    Any dirty trick is fine for , the end justifies the means sect. They are like the Minnesota state bird: Mosquitos-- blood sucking worthless irritants that cause more death and misery around the world than anything.
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  • Posted by $ Temlakos 4 years, 3 months ago
    Why should Trump bother? The only one who would really have to bother, would be anyone running for the Senate in Minnesota. Does Minnesota have a Senator in that class of Senators who stood for re-election this year? If so, let that candidate petition for a recount.
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