What do you all think about the FairTax?

Posted by JuliBMe 7 years, 5 months ago to Economics
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I saw a new discussion on business tax proposals and thought about the FairTax. I'm not sure I've ever seen a discussion about it here. What do think?
SOURCE URL: https://fairtax.org/index


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  • Posted by brkssb 7 years, 4 months ago
    FairTax, FlatTax, XYZTax -- all wrong.
    Now, what would you as an individual be willing to contribute for defense of your individual rights? Would you pay for a volunteer fire department that saved your house? Would you pay for a volunteer fire department that might save your house someday? How about defense of your life or property? Those are the questions that need to be answered.
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  • Posted by Temlakos 7 years, 4 months ago
    It's better, but not perfect. It lets you know, up-front, what portion of the production of "new stuff" has to go to pay for the government. Its implementation might improve the economy by removing tax-loss and compliance computations from people's thinking about consumption or investment.

    And that thirty-percent figure might make people think about how much government they really want.

    But real reform will need a Great Awakening to the cost of government and the (im)propriety of most of its current functions.

    Rand said the proper functions of government all have to do with managing force. That means police, military, and judiciary.

    The Constitution lists a set of "enumerated powers," one of which I would strike at once: "the power to establish post offices and post roads." That reflects obsolete thinking about communications and transportation, and the government's role in each.

    George Washington had a very small cabinet: Secretaries of State, Treasury, and War, and an Attorney General. (The Navy Department had to wait until the United States built enough fighting ships.) To get back to that system, we would need only Secretaries (and Departments) of State, Treasury, and Defense, plus the Attorney General and the Department of Justice. That's all the executive would need.

    Only then could we discuss how to fund that, and how to make it work as Rand proposed: that people pay voluntarily as they now pay for insurance, whether to use a lottery, etc.
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    • Posted by 7 years, 4 months ago
      Great ideas! I think the FairTax is a great step in that it takes the power of taxation from the IRS and puts it in our hands. Certainly would eliminate any reason for lobbying. And, the education people would get by seeing the cost of government on every receipt might help us make the steps to your ideas of returning to the Constitution.
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  • Posted by EdGoldstein 7 years, 4 months ago
    All tax schemes that are adopted are designed to allow maximum manipulation by the tax collectors. Unless someone comes up wit h a more unfair and corruptible tax scheme there will be no change to the current income tax.
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 5 months ago
    The actual federal sales tax rate they are proposing is 30% not 23%. The 23% is actually 23% of the final price after the tax is included. Rather misleading in my view.

    In addition, they seem to be assuming that consumption patterns will not change if the “fair tax” is implemented. In fact, they will change big time. How many people will pay a 30% surcharge for a new house when an equivalent used one can be bought tax free. Same with cars, jewelry, and other big-ticket items. The “fair tax” would likely cause massive economic disruption just implementing its distinction between “new” and “used”.
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    • Posted by bassboat 7 years, 4 months ago
      It is 23% and not misleading. The 30% that use is what is used by the left and the congressmen and women to scare the people without giving them the whole story. The retail price overall comes down 22% due to no corporate tax. Then that figure 23% is added to it resulting the same retail price. Let's not forget that no money would be withheld from one's paycheck and FICA taxes would be a thing of the past. Add that to the Fair Tax rebate and Joe Six Pack will have a nice bump in pay plus he won't have to figure out his taxes each year saving him time or the money that he would have to pay to get it done. Kick in the probable boost in income due to a more vibrant economy and Joe Six Pack will be much better off. He will mad as all get out if he ever learns the truth.
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      • Posted by scojohnson 7 years, 4 months ago
        We already have around 35% plugged in at the gas pump, about 50% on cigarettes, and at least as much on alcohol and no one notices. Gas would be $1 without the excise taxes.
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      • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 4 months ago
        The price will not come down 22% due to no corporate tax. Corporations are taxed on net profits after expenses, not on gross income or the retail prices of the goods and services they provide. Such profits are typically less than 10% of the final retail price, so the price might come down 2%, not 22%. And the 23% Fair Tax rate is misleading, your "Joe Six Pack" currently sees state sales taxes added to the retail price of every taxable item he purchases, and certainly will be "mad as all get out" if he finds out that the 23% rate he was promised turns out to be 30% on his sales receipt.
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        • Posted by 7 years, 4 months ago
          It doesn't matter HOW the corporation is taxed. It matters that THEY have to PAY it and, thus pass it along to their customers. Then the customers PAY it along with all the other taxes they pay that are deduction from their pays checks. So, you think prices will come down ONLY 2% if the corporation doesn't have to raise their prices to cover those taxes AND THEIR COMPLIANCE COSTS and the consumer keeps their WHOLE paycheck each week. I guess you can continue to think that if you like. I'm thinking you would be wrong.

          Let's try it and FIND OUT, shall we??? LOL.
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          • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 4 months ago
            It does matter, big time, HOW the corporation is taxed. It matters because a 2% tax on the corporation's gross income is way different than a 23% tax on the corporation's gross income. And "try it and find out" is a recipe for economic chaos, especially considering the flaws in the "fair tax" that have already been pointed out on this thread.
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            • Posted by 7 years, 4 months ago
              WHEN WILL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THE REDUCTION IN COSTS TO EVERYONE INCLUDING THE CORPORATION FOR COMPLIANCE?????

              You COMPLETELY IGNORE that all up and down this thread. You are so adamant about trashing this idea..while ignoring key elements...why?

              The flaws of the current system, no, not flaws....the CRIMINALITY of the current system FAR outweigh the flaws you keep flogging. The freedom we would all experience to pay a federal tax ONLY when we purchase a service or new product would be immeasurable. If the federal government ends up with less money, I guess, knowing Trump's reputation, they will look for places to cut spending. Or, as is the current policy, they will just print more and continue to add that ole hidden tax we have been hit with monthly for eight years under something called, "quantitative easing". It's all going to collapse anyway. Why not try to stem the tide with something quite positive and hopeful for everyone? Unless of course you're a lawyer or an accountant.
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              • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 4 months ago
                Obamacare was sold to the voters as a "positive and hopeful" fix to our badly flawed health care system. The Dems cited all the supposed advantages of the new, untried system while glossing over the glaringly obvious disadvantages. It appears to me that arguments for the "fair tax" are somewhat similar, except that they are applied to tax policy rather than health care.

                And no, I'm not a lawyer or an accountant.
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                • Posted by 7 years, 4 months ago
                  Our medical system was NOT that flawed when over 80% of the population was quite happy with their medical insurance as it was. Obamacare was shoved down our throats for the reason that the Marxist Left want complete control of our bodies and our lives. No other reason.

                  There's also a difference between the sales pitches of democrats and the sales pitches of any other person in the world. It's a given that if an elected democrat is speaking, they are telling you lies....so the Obamacare boondoggle was KNOWN by the alternative media and EVERY person who consumed it. Prior to it's implementation, the THINKING people of this country REVOLTED. Remember the Tea Party? It began with Obama's "shovel ready jobs" 1 trillion dollar theft of the treasury and intensified when Obamacare was being shoved down our throats.

                  So, where's all the angst over HR25/S 155, the FairTax? If the main stream media, or even the more informative alternative media would discuss it, which they DO NOT, it would be really interesting to see how the discussion would go, wouldn't it?

                  Again, you have nothing to say about the lack of compliance costs incurred by EVERYONE if the FairTax was implemented?
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                  • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 4 months ago
                    I addressed compliance costs in a previous post, but am delighted to repeat it again. The “fair tax” website calculates compliance costs at about $265 billion per year. I expect most of this amount will remain in place, as individuals and businesses will still have to perform the exact same calculations for their state and local income taxes. They will just have a few less forms to send in. And small businesses will have to spend time, money and emotional distress to cope with the more frequent audits that the “fair tax” website promises will be imposed on them. Add in all the other disadvantages of the fair tax, and the total package is not a worthwhile trade-off, in my opinion.
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    • Posted by 7 years, 4 months ago
      I've answered this above. Think about how much more money people will have when they don't have to comply with April 15 anymore and there are no deductions from their paychecks except for 401k and medical/life insurance? Also, think about the employers who will then also will not have all the costs for imposing those deductions for the government, no costs for lawyers and accountants to help them navigate all the laws that continually change with regards to compliance.

      Yes, people's habits will change. There will probably be some disruptions at first. Creative disruption! They may stop spending for a little while. But, once the burden of the current tax system is lifted, I would be so hopeful that we would see economic activity like we haven't seen since the early part of last century......and WE never actually saw that!
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      • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 4 months ago
        Being “hopeful” does not justify jumping into a new tax system, especially one with so many obvious negatives, and one that reallocates but does not lower today’s crushing tax burden. Any fundamental reform must dramatically lower both taxes and government spending. “Creative disruption” is a free-market phenomenon caused by advances in technology, not the destructive disruption caused by a sudden change in government tax policy. Employers will merely be trading IRS oversight for increased state-level oversight, and in addition they will have more frequent audits to look forward to (according to the fair tax’s own website.)
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        • Posted by 7 years, 4 months ago
          I see the FairTax as part of what is needed to insert us all back into the free market. In that way it certainly is a component of "creative disruption" (the actual term is "creative destruction" where one business innovates or is born and eliminates the need for an archaic business like computers eliminating the typewriter). We currently cannot conduct our business without the help of lawyers and accountants to tell us how to conduct that business without incurring taxes we cannot afford. The FairTax will certainly be part of that "creative destruction" in eliminating the need for all those lawyers and accountants. Many of those can then turn their businesses into helping people INVEST the money and TIME they are saving. Many businesses are NOT started because of the current burdens of tax regulations and the unknowable possibility of more regulations coming down the pike every single day.

          Since the federal government already does too much, yes, it is much better to bring the taxing responsibility down to the state level. Audits are no problem if you do your best to comply with a MUCH EASIER to understand law.
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