Specifically? We need less control over our lives. Let's secure the borders then reduce the amount of firepower those in power have over the rest of us. The harsh reality is that there are cops out there who abuse their power. I've seen them. I've known them. As you said, you've known cops who believed they were "doing good". The bad ones believe that too.

So the suggestion is: Control the borders. Reduce the domestic fire power. Oh, and if cops beat a defenseless person to death as they did with Kelly Thomas in SoCal those cops need to be put in prison with the general population or put to death.

I'm good friends with a guy who worked w her in the Secret Service. He said, "Hell with this!" and retired very early. He's a good guy...couldn't handle it...

Of course.

That is very scary.

There is a difference in a first responder who is there to protect individuals from harm inflicted by another and the police who meddle in the affairs of individuals. I have a nephew who is a deputy sheriff and he responded on a call where he put his life and safety on the line while trying to dissuade a man who was threatening his children with a weapon. In the end he succeeded in getting the children to safety while not harming the unstable individual. He would also respond if the 'authority' told him to take my weapons simply because I had them or disburse my property if so ordered. We live in a police state where we are told we must submit to police authority. I do not intend to. Police have changed from when I was young to men who often desire 'authority' over others and want to exercise that authority. Then there are the cops who want to profit from that fear, those would be the most dangerous. Having a police force for protection is different than having one that enslaves. The distinction is becoming blurry.

There are always victims. If they can't find any, they can make them up.

How many on the island? 350 million?
Of course not. Given a limited sized island and a limited population, the rule of law will likely be far different from that of a great nation, given the nature of man.

The only interactions i have had with police are concerning victimless crimes, usually traffic related. I just feel better as a result of my interactions when cops are NOT around to hassle me. Get rid of the victimless crime laws and I would probably feel differently.

Note, I asked for constructive suggestions. As a race, we are constantly and forever at war with ourselves. Greed, avarice, envy are rampant among many of us. That is immaturity. Science has outstripped philosophy and has put powerful weapons into the hand of mystics and suitors to power. Your comments only serve to illustrate precisely what I was expounding.
Also someone downgraded me to a zero. Boo Hoo.

Well said.

Hmmm. "The human race is not mature enough to be individually self governing" but it's mature enough to give those same individuals power over others, including the power to seize property and the means and authority to kill? It seems a contradictory argument.

I'd have to think about that. I was on a very remote island in the nation of Kirabati many years ago and what they did there was just handcuff the criminal to the flagpole for a day or so. Then, I think they'd ban them from the island if they went too far or refused to behave better. You and I both know that government equals force. Since they also determine the level of force, well...doesn't always work our very well.

I have seen good cops and bad ones. The ones in FL when I was a kid were pretty bad. One wouldn't give us a jump start, saying it was against policy since they can blow up batteries. We had to walk 5 miles to get another car and do it ourselves.
Another example was a kid I was in High School with, who got arrested and kicked the window out of the cruiser. He beat the hell out of two officers, and another cruiser ended up helping subdue him. This kid was no offensive lineman or anything. I got into a fight with him in High School for a blatant inappropriate act his did to my girlfriend, and I wiped the floor with him handily. Just more wimps.
My favorite was the shooting in Palm Bay in 1986 (I think). This was pathetic. A senile old veteran lost his marbles and decided to shoot several people. He shot a kid in the neighborhood. Then he shot a police man in a car responding. His partner emptied his revolver at the guy right across the street. He then fumbled his speed loader. They found him shot with bullets all over his lap. Then this guy went into a Kmart and took hostages. He shot some people in the parking lot. Several towns of cops were called in, and eventually the National Guard. They couldn't get to the people who were shot in the parking lot...for hours. One nutty old man held off these guys for hours. This was one of the most blatant acts of police cowardice and incompetence I have seen. I could go on an on about these clowns.

Police are police-friendly. They often do give traffic tickets to each other, and they get other special treatment. This is inappropriate and annoying.

All that said, being a police officer is a very hard job, particularly real cops in urban areas. I have great respect for the guys that can deal with this with polite attitudes and know where to draw the line. The doughnut-eating tax collectors of small towns are often not the same tough customers.

Any constructive suggestions? The human race is not mature enough to be individually self governing. Therefore how do we function without police?

Sorry Herb. I wasn't clear: "...or is it only by people who have had a bad experience, or just plain dislike having anyone having authority over them." For me, it's both.

LOL

Pessimist.

Yes, they are a minority. But some folks seem to think that the minority is quite large and you are as likely as not to get one of the bad ones. Like lots of Gulch people they are quite convincing.

Things cops hate: being used as revenue generators, spending more time finding and ticketing people for various ridiculous laws than chasing down the really bad dudes; injecting themselves into domestic disputes, a situation that gets cops killed and injured more frequently than when confronting a known violent offender; taking verbal and physical abuse from real jerks with a grudge against law enforcement.

There aren't many jobs outside the military that you are aware that when you walk out the door, there's a distinct chance it could be your last day alive. Police and firemen share that reality.

Not everyone who puts on a police uniform is cut out for the job. Some can't take the stress, and mentally collapse; some have a sadistic streak, and enjoy abusing people; some exercise power to intimidate and coerce; some are ethically weak and can be corrupted. Luckily for the rest of us, those misfits are in a distinct minority.

If there was any chance that it might have changed anything, then it would have been worth it. Since it wouldn't it wasn't.

Ah, but what about asserting to illustrate the righteousness of your position?

Like (probably) most of the list, I have no problem with most police per se. But the system as it is both enables and protects abuses, and that makes reform urgently necessary.

If we're going to have a civilization we have to have a government, and that implies police. But a big drawback immediately arises: you can't sign up to enforce only the laws that are moral. It's all or nothing, and if you refuse an order you're fired. Thus, in my view, it is not quite morally possible to become a cop, unless you can find a way to retain enough choice that you aren't required to violate anybody's rights. (The same problem exists with being a soldier, too.) To put it simply, respecting people's rights has to be given priority over following orders. And I don't want badges or guns in the hands of anyone who doesn't see things that way.

If and when we can strip police (and prosecutors and judges and everyone else) of their immunity, so that everyone they bully or injure when they shouldn't can go to court and get justice, then I'd no longer have a problem with them, because once that happens (and the victimless crime laws go away, of course) they'd have to adopt the right set of priorities. And cop would no longer be an attractive job for people who love to bully.

While we're at it, the system should compensate everyone who has suffered damage as a result of even completely legitimate police action if he turns out to be innocent (or at least innocent of anything big enough that the damage would have been called for). Thus for instance, a person who loses his home and his job after a false accusation of rape should be compensated just as if the accuser had done the damage physically. And similarly someone whose home was torn apart looking for stolen property that wasn't there.

I've been the defendant in multiple (3) instances where the cops lied in court. Not misinterpretations of subtle things—straight up lies.
Then there's blatant incompetence. For example, when the cop perjured himself on the ticket he wrote because he didn't understand the meaning of the sections he signed. The court accepts ignorance as an excuse for a cop, not for a defendant. The box that says "signed in" is where the ticket is signed, not two towns away. And the cop (a different moron) is supposed to write the current year on the ticket, not some other year. I would have been okay with the court cutting the cop some slack if it was early January. But it was NOT January. Oh, I just remembered the fraudulent discovery, with the cop claiming he had sent all materials, but then using non-discovered notes. But judges can be worse than the cops. See the judges pictured, for example, on the top of the page at http://www.stalincare.com/home/those-....

It is hard to place law enforcement into the top 10 dangerous jobs along with truckers, roofers, fishermen, etc. Of course police will kill more persons than they themselves get killed because an officer cannot argue about the law and must disarm a weapon involved situation before the discussion can start.

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-f...

Excellent advice!