There are definitely some viewpoints on this forum that are more anarchical than others, there is no question. There is also great concern about the overreach of authority into many matters on which there is substantial question as to their authority or standing in said matter. I think that there should be vigorous policy discussion about whether or not a matter is subject to the authority of a duly-elected government.

Unfortunately we have let the politicians and the administrative class have too much control over everything, so the ruling political / administrative class think the police are their own private army to enforce what they say and will on the populace.
There are many good police who try hard to make the world a better place, but in the end it is the entire system above them that has gotten corrupt.
What the political class get away with enforcing today, is worse than what the Founders of America went to war over.

Also way too much of the time, the police are used simply as tax collectors by local governments and then the totally unconstitutional asset forfeiture laws make policing for profit a huge business, usually on the backs of the lower classes.

In both instances it would have cost me more in missed wages than the cost of the fine, and that was the most frustrating part since I realized that as it was happening.

whether we, they have parents, wives, children should NOT even come into the picture. I was taught that we are to be robotic in all that is done to prevent any compromise of application of law. I was taught that I out ranked EVERYONE when they broke the law. I have seen many things about cops and the law and it is not good.Where are the prosecutions??https://www.google.com.ua/#q=police+s...

If by that you mean the need to apply the law to persons in power, I get it. Look at That scoundrel Hillary Clinton.Something that people often forget is that police are not always alone. Many have wives and children. Parents of their own. It's one of the few professions that can impact their families more than many others.

At least you can have a day in court.

You're being rational. Something that's alien to most politicos.
Also when advising kids, I added to what you said "put your hands where they can see them."

Hi Herb,
I think that being a policeman or women is a tough profession. Their job must be frustrating to say the least when perpetrators they apprehend get slapped on the wrist and then repeat many times with fatal results.
The complications with policing are many, the law makers pile on new laws and regulations.
Then those same officials pressure to ignore laws. (illegal aliens).
The vetting of candidates for policework is also
Challenging. When I read a sheriff is fined $10000 for requiring citizenship as a job requirement.
I think about how controlling and irrational national govt... meddling is over local .
My recommendation to my kids when they were teens. Be respectful, be good use your manners and don't run from the cops.
The most difficult situations in anyone's life and death, the police are first responders.
Another issue that would improve the police situation in our country would be to take the money out of drugs. Legalize and Millions would no longer be criminals for using or trafficking.they would have to work to make the big money they make on selling narcotics .l think murders would decline all across the country. Just my two bits.

I was MP AF. I knew the law and applied EQUALLY to EVERYONE. Do you know how much trouble that will cause?

The only negative experience I have ever had with a police officer has been from traffic stops. Generally I have been in the wrong but on at least 2 occasions the officer was wrong. In the cases were the officer was wrong it is EXTREMELY frustrating to be basically powerless to do anything.

I believe that police officers just like any other job have good and bad people. Sadly today the media makes big news off the few bad ones.

The good, the bad and the stupid for people being people are in any profession. Cops are no different.
Me now the old dino been around. Me done seen it time after time.

Holy shit! And you WERE a cop?

I was a cop. I read Constitutional law. Cops HATE "civilian" that know more than them. They keep putting me in jail. I get to relax and it is NOT a punishment for me. They, the cops. are literally saying "take your shit and go". If you suck up all is good. If you stand up THEY will break the law. Intimidation IS a crime. Your good guy cops will murder you if you do not have a seatbelt on and refuse to take the ticket or go to jail, FOR NOT WEARING A SEAT. No one needs a drivers license!!!http://www.apfn.org/apfn/travel.htm and cops will do all kinds of harm if you exercise your right. I had a police chief say "no you are not free".

It is the anti-authoritarian ideology that underlies the anti-police attitude. Policing appeals to people who believe in force. But that is only one side of the equation. Crimes against people and property are equally denounced here; and so the police are supported in "crime fighting." Put "Ferguson" in the search box and read the comments. So, we have an ambivalence here in the Gulch.

My degrees are in criminology. Most of my work in that has been in private security. I am now in the state military department, which despite posse comitatus does have a law enforcement role. All that I can say here is: "It's complicated."

We know from statistics that college-educated police write more tickets.
We know from statistics that college-educated police have fewer complaints from the public.
We know from statistics that women write more tickets than men.
We know from statistics that women have fewer complaints from the public.
The best police force would be comprised entirely of college-educated women. (For a glimpse into that, there is a novella, "The Good Walk Alone" by Wolf Devoon.)

Criminologists know the unsolved problem of "Rotten Apples or Rotten Barrels." Some departments have bad cultures. We know that. When the college semester 2005 opened, our class assignment was to fix the New Orleans police department. Then Katrina struck and the assignment was canceled. On the other hand, Minneapolis does have its problems, but statistically far fewer of them.

O. W. Wilson was a student of August Vollmer. Wilson re-organized several police departments. His last success was Chicago. No sooner was he congratulated than the department committed the "police riot" at the 1968 Democratic Party Convention. To me, all that proves is that people are not billiard balls so therefore criminology cannot be physics. There are no reductionist answers to the problems.

OK -- and so?

I know several cops too. Two are complete ***holes.

Both

You'll get no argument from me on that.
The retired cop (my cousin's kid) never pulled his gun in 30 years except on a target. However, his shoulders are almost as broad as his height. His nickname is "Bear." So, most bad guys don't usually give him much trouble Many first responders are there simply because they are closest to the scene when the call goes out. They are not given a choice when they get a call, also, and remember, they are on call whether they are on duty or not.

Maybe we've got too many laws, many of which are anti-human and anti-liberty. We've definitely got way too many people that want to control others and some of those individuals go into police and regulatory professions. We've all met 'Barney Fife' somewhere and sometime, but our state gives him more than one bullet in his pocket then train him to use them with no hesitation targets and programs based on the Marines 'Left of Bang' hunter program. (Most of the 'experts' utilized to develop that program were cops.)

In a nation of 330 million of the supposedly most free individuals on earth, that imprisons more people per capita as well as more in total than any other, and sees near 100 per month dying in interactions with police, more than any other--we've got problems. The hero cop in my thinking is the one that has never had to pull his weapon while on duty, and the one that his neighbors talk to about their difficulties without fear of being reported--not the first responder type that wants hero recognition.

That's the trouble with enforcing the law. No one can be free as long as there is a society that requires policing. However, you give the impression that the bad stuff is commonplace and can be found wherever there are police. I don't think you mean it that way, or do you?

Herb; I think you and I have had this conversation before, but I'll still respond.

I've known, throughout my life, good and bad cops, as individuals--as well as good and bad CPAs, good and bad Doctors, good and bad car salesmen, etc., etc.. But all those other good and bads don't kill nearly 100 Americans per month of all races and ages, nor are they protected from the consequences of their misdeeds by the state and their good compatriots. And saying that, I fully recognize that there is a number of those shootings that are unavoidable, though I'll continue to question each and every one. We've all seen the Carolina shooting of a fleeing man shot in the back and the cop trying to plant his taser.

But until the good cops weed out the bad cops and the bad practices and the bad enforcement actions, such as early morning SWAT raids to serve misdemeanor warrants by militarized members of their organizations, I'll continue to question all cops, particularly the ones I know personally and individually. Those men take an oath when they enter their profession, and 'I'm just doing my job and following orders', just flat out doesn't cut it any more for me.

I don't have an anti-cop attitude as much as I have a pro-individual-liberty attitude. If they desire my respect, they're going to have to earn it, and I don't recognize or grant anyone's authority over me.

You are correct. It's been a rough year for "blue lives matter."

I had not noticed an anti-cop leaning here in the Gulch. Maybe I've missed it. I like you have relatives in law enforcement at all levels and ranks. I have also know several on the personal social level. all are ready to put their life on the line regardless of the sex, race or ethnic background of the victim of individuals they are interacting with.
I know there are some bad apples out there as in any profession. Experience with those officers should not color the entire view of law enforcement officers actions.
Consider this single stat. There have been 60 officers killed in the line of duty so far this year. If there are no more killed, that equates to 5 per month or 1 and a 1/4 every week. That is a record we should not try to emulate ever again.