Most expensive destroyer in U.S. fleet loses propulsion in Panama Canal

Posted by mminnick 7 years, 5 months ago to News
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Some ships's Captain just lost his career. Not necessarily his fault but as Captain, it's his neck on the block.
Also, one would think that the propulsion system of such a ship would be the mot robust item on board. No propulsion you become a smoking hole in the water very quickly.
SOURCE URL: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2016/11/23/most-expensive-destroyer-in-us-fleet-loses-propulsion-in-panama-canal/


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  • Posted by dukem 7 years, 5 months ago
    I submit for your consideration perhaps the most important definition of responsibility I have yet read, this a quote from the father of the nuclear navy, Admiral Rickover:

    RESPONSIBILITY

    “Responsibility is a unique concept... You may share it with others, but your portion is not diminished. You may delegate it, but it is still with you... If responsibility is rightfully yours, no evasion, or ignorance or passing the blame can shift the burden to someone else. Unless you can point your finger at the man who is responsible when something goes wrong, then you have never had anyone really responsible.”
    ― Hyman G. Rickover

    And so that is the key concept that allows our fighting forces to actually be able to do their job effectively, in lieu of being a hotbed of social experimentation.
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    • Posted by minorwork 7 years, 5 months ago
      The infection of the crowd is as dangerous on board ship as elsewhere. The crowd is unsafe. The captain that allows his ship to be run by the crowd, the college that lets the crowd into its affairs, the man who permits the crowd to determine his duties for him, is negotiating with disaster. The crowd has no sense of responsibility; the intelligence of its units is lost in the unintelligence of its mass. The crowd in our day is more and more a menace: the gravest dangers in our national life spring from the crowd; in our moral affairs, the temptations of the crowd are the hardest to resist." ~ H. H. Clark, D.D., Chaplain of the U.S. Naval Academy, Annapolis, Md.
      https://books.google.com/books?id=Vmt...
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    • Posted by minorwork 7 years, 5 months ago
      A good bit of Rickover's philosophy carried into Robert Heinlein's science fiction.

      In his 1966 novel, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress(1), science-fiction Grand Master Robert A. Heinlein relates how the inhabitants of a colony on the moon carry out a revolution with the aid of a self-aware computer.. During a discussion leading up to the start of the revolution, one of the characters, Professor De La Paz, describes his political philosophy to fellow conspirators, Manuel O' Kelly and Wyoming Knott.

      De La Paz states that he is a rational anarchist:


      “A rational anarchist believes that concepts such as ‘state’ and ‘society’ and ‘government’ have no existence save as physically exemplified in the acts of self-responsible individuals. He believes that it is impossible to shift blame, share blame, distribute blame . . . as blame, guilt, responsibility are matters taking place inside human beings singly and nowhere else. But being rational, he knows that not all individuals hold his evaluations, so he tries to live perfectly in an imperfect world . . . aware that his effort will be less than perfect yet undismayed by self-knowledge of self-failure.”
      Mannie: “Hear, hear!” I said. “‘Less than perfect.’ What I’ve been aiming for all my life.”

      “You’ve achieved it,” said Wyoh. “Professor, your words sound good but there is something slippery about them. Too much power in the hands of individuals—surely you would not want ... well, H-missiles for example—to be controlled by one irresponsible person?”
      Prof: “My point is that one person is responsible. Always. If H-bombs exist—and they do—some man controls them. In terms of morals, there is no such thing as a ‘state.’ Just men. Individuals. Each responsible for his own acts.”
      http://dwrighsr.tripod.com/heinlein/R...
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    • Posted by $ Snezzy 7 years, 5 months ago
      Precisely!

      An example from my everyday life providing pony rides for little kids:
      Child's mother: "I know you said you won't allow two on the same pony, but I'll take all the responsibility."
      Me: "It's my responsibility. You can't have it. There is no way I can delegate it. What you are asking is unsafe. We don't do it."
      Her: "I TOLD YOU, I'LL TAKE ALL THE RESPONSIBILITY!!"
      Me: "Sorry. Can't do it."
      Her: [hmmmph!]
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    • Posted by $ Thoritsu 7 years, 5 months ago
      Have this on my wall, and make people put it up around the office. Great saying.

      Let me know if you find any shred of example of it WRT to the decisions for this ship design.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 7 years, 5 months ago
    This echoes the many technical issues with the F-35, resulting from a lack of attention to quality control. This is happening more frequently, and is a direct result of the Pentagon deciding it was too hard to keep diligent oversight of the technical side of development, dropped the requirement for program management to have engineering degrees, and instead handed over the responsibility to accountants, focusing on using the budget as a control.

    I was a program manager as an Air Force officer, with an aerospace engineering degree. I had contractor support for technical specialty oversight, but it was my engineering judgement that was the final say. I never missed a deadline, nor ran over budget, and the products we delivered to the operational community met their needs reliably.

    Later in life, as a contractor, I was horrified to see development contractors failing to meet technical goals getting awards for keeping up their spending profiles. Any contractor who tried to reduce spending was reprimanded for not following their spending profile. Technical performance was secondary.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 5 months ago
    That's what you get from design by committee and it's becoming more and more frequent in the US Armed Services. Everyone from the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines and even the Coast Guard has to be in on the development of everything. And as a result, the generification makes the whole thing cost 10x what it should while destroying its effectiveness. We need to tell the Generals/Admirals to play quarterback, but not to design the ball!
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    • Posted by TheRealBill 7 years, 5 months ago
      The same thing happened to the Space Shuttle. The USAF wanted to be able to use if for circumpolar orbits which meant a different profile. Of course after the die was cast guess who changed their minds and went back to rockets for those launches.

      Sadly this is part and parcel of why so much software is crap and riddled with bugs and defects.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 5 months ago
    Wait. You mean the person in charge, at the top, has to take responsibility for bad things that occur under his command? Even when it happens outside his direct control? Even when he had no intent to cause the problem?
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    • Posted by $ Snezzy 7 years, 5 months ago
      Yes. Here is a story about that.

      At the port of New York, decades ago, a naval ship was under construction. Even at that point of existence it has a designated captain, who is supposed to be on site.

      There was a gasoline fire aboard ship, due to careless operation of a forklift. The Navy's fire crew began to battle the fire with approved Navy fogging techniques that prevent driving the fire below decks. The fire department of the City of New York showed up, and (get this!) ordered the Naval fire crew away. They then turned their hoses on the fire. The fire went below decks and the ship was lost.

      Who was responsible? The captain!

      Why? He should have ordered his crew to repel the NYC fire laddies AT POINT OF ARMS, shooting them if necessary. As captain, he had that responsibility and that authority.

      [Sorry, this is a story I heard from an Old Salt. I do not have a reference or a date.]
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    • Posted by BeenThere 7 years, 5 months ago
      In the military, the commander (in this case, the Captain) is responsible for everything his unit (ship) does or fails to do. The purpose is to insure extreme vigilance and zero tolerance for error, especially f*** ups.
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  • Posted by ISank 7 years, 5 months ago
    I had Zumwalts kid as an officer on my ship, he was a young officer so I didn't pay much attention.
    So we build a new ship, it under goes sea trials, passes(?), then looses propulsion on its first time outside the home pond. The old Navy has truly turned into a canoe club. Sad.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 7 years, 5 months ago
    This ship is the example of a bureaucratic disaster. The propulsion system is absolute garbage, and does not meet the basic requirements of the ship. The whole ship is a disaster. This is what happens when you have a bunch or academic GS-pukes dictate the design to the shipbuilders, and not one of these guys is going to have to live with their decisions, from PEO Ships, Charlie Hamilton to the SES for the ship, Mike Collins (whose secretary was the wife of the sales guy for the propulsion system company), to the GS15 for the propulsion and electrical systems whose name eludes me at the moment. I know every one of these guys and they are terrible. They had no idea what they were doing, and no interest in doing the right thing for the warfighter.
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  • Posted by walkabout 7 years, 5 months ago
    Actually, when I was trying to be admitted to the U.S. Naval Academy at Annapolis, I learned (or at least was told) the Navy likes to have small bad things happen to young officers to see how they handle such things (e.g. running aground -- which happened to Chester Nimitz in his first command). As a board of inquiry I'd be more concerned that they couldn't move the ship out of the lock w/o scratching it up -- it likely was not under her own power at the time anyway.
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  • Posted by minorwork 7 years, 5 months ago
    Taking on seawater? WTF?? Did the engineers forget the thing has to float? For gosh sakes, it's STOPPING the unintentional taking on of water that defines a ship in the first place. I must of missed something about the NEW NAVY.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 5 months ago
    Reminds me of the most expensive care I ever bought (at the time) broke down as I was on my way home after work.I knew the owner of the dealership and I was so furious that I called him up and !@#$%$#@! 'd him up one end and down the other. I must have been really impressive because the dealership owner and his chief mechanic came out with a loaner which I drove home and my car was ready the next day. My son told me to never buy the first year of a particular model, which this was. I should've listened to him, but it sure looked good before I bought it. It turned out to be the 2nd worse car I ever bought. What is it with new models?
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