Evil in the World Today

Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 4 months ago to Culture
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The virtue of selfishness presupposes the existence of a self. Julian Jaynes posited that the development of writing enable the creation of interior "voice." In the _Iliad_ warriors spoke to each other of being told by gods or spirits to act. But in the Odyssey, our hero is called "clever" because he is a "liar" who keeps his true motives to himself. As late at the 15th century CE, Joan of Arc thought that she "heard voices" never identifying her motivation as internal. Even today, millions of people have no voice in their heads. They routinize actions from imitation, but have no internal motivation. They have no internal experience.

(Reuters) - So you say all you want to do is to take a few minutes to sit down and think without anyone or anything bugging you? Maybe that is true. But you might be in the minority.

A U.S. study published on Thursday showed that most volunteers who were asked to spend no more than 15 minutes alone in a room doing nothing but sitting and thinking found the task onerous.

"Many people find it difficult to use their own minds to entertain themselves, at least when asked to do it on the spot," said University of Virginia psychology professor Timothy Wilson, who led the study appearing in the journal Science.

Researchers then had adult and college student volunteers do the same thing in their homes, and got the same results. In addition, a third of volunteers cheated by doing things like using a cellphone or listening to music.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/0...

UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA report on the study here:
http://news.virginia.edu/content/doing-s...


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  • Posted by Zenphamy 11 years, 4 months ago
    Imagination has to be fostered and encouraged at childhood. If not, you get the results shown in this study.
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    • Posted by $ 11 years, 4 months ago
      I agree, Zen, that imagination can be and should be taught. Obviously, some people get it on their own, but like almost anything people do, more would do it better if (1) the process were understood and (2) means of learning it were also understood and enhanced. The most important thing to imagine is the consequences of your own actions. That seems sadly lacking in human affairs.
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      • Posted by RonC 11 years, 4 months ago
        IMHO the world needs some motivational education from the post war era. I have re-invested in some Earl Nightingale and Napolean Hill audio books on the subject of success and wealth. Nightingale goes into a fair amount of depth in the practical application of thinking; how desire, ambition, discipline and a specified time each day build the thought habit. Nightingale contends 99% of the people don't know how to think. I found it striking that his statistic matches exactly the 99% of the people with their hands out and pockets empty today.
        Napolean Hill contends that a "burning desire" to accomplish something supercharges the mind. This causes the subconscious mind to work a problem 24/7. Then in that quiet time, when you least expect it, a thought comes to mind that you had never considered before. He claims that Edison discover the light bulb this way, Carnegie perfected his steel process this way, W. Clement Stone built a $6B insurance conglomerate using these principals.

        I would guess a cynic would call this hokum. We have to be taught how to think by our schools. As a mature observer of American life, I would argue we have had 100 years of our youth being taught how to think by our public schools. Much of the result is a generation of young people holding degrees without promise, student loans that demand payment, basement accommodations at Mom's place, and no hope of ever eclipsing what the prior generations have done.

        So, for me, I will set down at the kitchen table, early in the morning in a quiet house. At the top of a yellow pad I will write a question. Something like, "how can I solve the problem of collecting accounts receivable?" I will concentrate on that question alone. If my mind drifts, I will redirect it. Some of the answers are worthless, but I write them down. Some of the answers are spot on, I write them down too. If I pursue this for a few days, in a week I'll have a page full of ideas to evaluate and try. With all of this prodding of my mind, once in a while, while doing some menial task like mowing the lawn, an idea will flash into my head. I take care to handle that idea in a special way. It is my experience that is my "muse" or "better self" giving guidance.
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        • Posted by johnpe1 11 years, 4 months ago
          Ron, I watched our dvd of Edison The Man last night,
          after reading through the gulch musings here ... and
          the movie reported that Edison tested 9,000 different
          filaments before finding that carbon-filled, baked
          sewing thread would work. for awhile.

          but pursuing this specific goal with such persistence
          implied that he had a vision which convinced him
          that it was worthwhile. and the idea of enclosing
          the filament in a vacuum came to him separately,
          as he worked on filaments, the movie said.

          for me, my little inventions have come from self-
          guided mental lists like your yellow pad lists -- it's
          a well-proven group problem-solving technique
          which involves listing all of the brainstormed ideas
          and gradually letting them lead to a solution.

          these measures keep me from going negative,
          like Mike implies with the title of this post!!! -- j

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  • Posted by teri-amborn 11 years, 4 months ago
    Interesting that you connected the dots between "evil" a "lack of imagination".
    Technically, evil imagines that it is being wronged and there is some sort of score that needs to be evened.
    That's why political correctness and all of these "wishes" that have taken the guise of "rights" are so detrimental to our society. Literally, we are watching evil take over our country.
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  • Posted by Stormi 11 years, 4 months ago
    Most of us were raised in an era when being quiet was encouraged. We grew up pretending, staring at clouds to find shapes, dreaming what we wanted to become.
    Today, children are encouraged to socialize every hour of the day, never be alone, bond endlessly with peers, and don't think. Being alone is impossible with cell phones, Facebook, TV and video games. Being alone and just thinking is a foreign concept.
    I happen to think that being alone is fine, necessary, and calming. To relate to nature does not take a group to share the experience. Even now, I recharge by walking the property quietly, being in nature. Thoughts and ideas grown from such time.
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  • Posted by j_IR1776wg 11 years, 4 months ago
    Imagination has been a birthright of humans since our inception. It is best nurtured in children by leaving them alone to develop at their own pace. That so few choose to lose themselves in thought is a testament to a culture dominated by those whose greatest fear is the sight of an independent free-thinking individual.
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    • Posted by $ 11 years, 4 months ago
      Leaving them alone to develop _what_ at their own pace?? It is a mistake to glorify a mythical past. When we were kids, we... what? Not only we walk to the neighborhood library on our own in the summer, during the school year, the teachers would tie up four our five stacks of library books and send a troupe of boys to the branch to return them... and come back... alive... all of us... But kids today are not necessarily impoverished for the lack of that peculiar experience.
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      • Posted by j_IR1776wg 11 years, 4 months ago
        "Leaving them alone to develop _what_ at their own pace??" Imagination!!!!

        Read your reply to Rich at the top of these comments! You opined "that imagination can be and should be taught." By whom? How?

        Try reading Maria Montessori's The Secret of Childhood. It is the best explanation of the child's developing mind I've ever read.
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        • Posted by $ 11 years, 4 months ago
          Taught by parents, mentors, peers, ... we discover much on our own, but teaching saves time and ensures that you learn what you might not have discovered on your own. It is really the social requirement of the parent or parent-surrogate to teach the processes of imagining. That is how it has been done traditionally.

          You want me to _try_ reading Montessori? Do you think that she might be too difficult? Should I read a translation or the original Italian? I ask because in Italian, they say, "tradurre e tradire" - to translate is to betray. Which did you read, the original or the betrayal?
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          • Posted by j_IR1776wg 11 years, 4 months ago
            To my mind there are two ways to approach intellectual debate:
            1) Illuminate, learn, and teach
            2) Obfuscate, attack and destroy.

            Instead of discussing the ideas of one of humanity's greatest minds as to the intellectual development of children, you fall back on the time- worn technique of obfuscation by misdirection. By your argument, no one can discuss Jesus unless fluent in Aramaic or Aristotle in ancient Greek.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 11 years, 4 months ago
    My wife claims that all I need in the way of entertainment, is to sit in a comfy chair and think. The advantage for me is that I was brought up in the era of radio - no pictures except those provided by one's mind. With all of the constant bombardment from electronic devices, which provide one with information including other persons thoughts and beliefs it's a wonder that anyone can think at all. Can it be that perfectly good minds are being stunted by technology?
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    • Posted by $ 11 years, 4 months ago
      (Is this Happy Birthday, Herb? Congratulations on the Big Eight-Oh?) Allow me to point out that one could make the same argument against radio. See above in this chat for my complaint against books, as opposed to bardic recitation, just as a straw man position. Radio plays still provided you with voices, sound effects, and narrative. (I remember Amos 'n' Andy being on both the radio and the television, but only dimly. I am a child of the TV era.) i think that the matter is more complicated than that. I grant that people today are greatly distracted and without special training in meditation or something similar, few people would just naturally discover their inner selves, though clearly, some did and do. Thus, Buddha attempted to teach his path. And even today, the best part of fishing is being out there by yourself in a boat and not catching anything.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 11 years, 4 months ago
        Yes, today is my 80th.
        You are right, of course. Every era has had and will have its distractions.
        Buddha wants us to achieve Nirvana, which as far as I can tell, is a state of nothingness where the self as the self ceases to exist. Now that scares the crap out of me. I prefer the reincarnation part and never achieve becoming a Brahman.
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        • Posted by johnpe1 11 years, 4 months ago
          Herb, I knew that there was a reason in there
          somewhere which made me adore your contributions
          here -- the seasoning of a radio listener who knows
          how to think through things gently, letting them flower
          as they will. like Paul Harvey, the prince of pause,
          radio involves phrasing during which there is time
          for the imagination to flourish. tv and the current
          overstimulated world lacks this phrasing, in my
          humble opinion ... -- j

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    • Posted by Robbie53024 11 years, 4 months ago
      To some degree, yes. And in others, no. Technology itself neither stunts nor enhances, it just is. One could make the argument that radio stunted the story-making aspect, since you were listening passively to others telling the stories instead of making them up yourself.

      Technology is merely a tool that the human mind can use, like any other tool, to enhance our understanding of the universe. Those who allow their mind to atrophy by continuing a passive existence instead of interacting proactively with the universe have merely chosen a specific means by which to sequester themselves - but they would have done so nonetheless. Drugs, alcohol, TV, video-games; they all provide a means of escape. It is more that we don't have to provide more for ourselves that allows us to disconnect from the universe. It wasn't merely the lack of TV and video games that caused those in the US western frontier to be engaged - they had to in order to survive. Today, one doesn't need to hunt for one's food, skin an animal or pick one's own cotton to make clothing, etc.

      Hope you had the happiest of days and have many more to come!
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      • Posted by Herb7734 11 years, 4 months ago
        There are some who believe that the whole point of technology is to eventually give humans total leisure, turning them into squishy couch tomatoes. Particularly SciFi authors love to dwell on this scenario. If that is true, than I would agree with the environmental wackos that tech is evil. However, mankind has the option of evolving along with the technology. We have the potential to truly become the masters of the universe -- if we will allow ourselves to become so.
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 11 years, 4 months ago
          What worries/interests/frightens (I'm not sure which, quite frankly) me more is what happens as we continue to become more productive. It is conceivable that in the near future all that will need to be done to produce for the basic needs of humans to survive will be able to be done by very few. That leaves the things beyond subsistence to be done by the rest of us. What will that world look like, and how will it function?
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  • Posted by barwick11 11 years, 4 months ago
    I'd go nuts if I didn't have something to write down my ideas on, because I'd forget them :)
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    • Posted by $ 11 years, 4 months ago
      There's an old story about Einstein crossing the Princeton campus with another IAS fellow and the other guy stops, takes out a notebook and jots something. He does this a couple more times. Einstein asks what he is writing. The other guy says that when he gets a good idea, he writes it down so he does not forget it. Einstein says, "I do not have so many good ideas that I forget them." (And, yes, I write mine down too, but with admitted humility for their actual value.)
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  • Posted by Abaco 11 years, 4 months ago
    Well, after coaching my son's soccer team last year (and, ignoraing a bunch of other less-trivial data I have) I can assure you that kids today are not, neurologically, the same as they were when I was a kid. This was a boys soccer team (which is important). These kids are much more scattered. Zero attention span on most of them. About 1/4 of our team had obvious special needs.
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  • Posted by wiggys 11 years, 4 months ago
    thinking requires words. one can not think without them. how big a vocabulary do you think most of the youth of America have? what words they do use they do not know the meaning of so when it comes to thinking they go blank. college students; that is a joke, in order for them to activate their minds they need a cell phone or music. now that grass is legal just give them a joint and they will be in the place they like the best "never, never land".
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    • Posted by Kova 11 years, 4 months ago
      Actually, you do not require words in order to think. Thinking occurs in concepts, and words merely accompany those concepts. Some people think in pictures (which are also props to illustrate conceptual comprehension) and some people, particularly the really quick-witted people, skip the pictures and the words entirely in favour of resolving things directly via concept.
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      • Posted by Kova 11 years, 4 months ago
        This is not to imply that literacy is not absolutely important, or that articulacy should not be revered! Obviously the language of reason is most concisely expressed through words!
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        • Posted by wiggys 11 years, 4 months ago
          how do you express a concept if not with words to describe the concept?
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          • Posted by Kova 11 years, 4 months ago
            Well, words are pretty important for expression, as I mentioned in my last comment. You could use pictures...but without words, things are far less concise. However, I mentioned that you do not require words in order to THINK.
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            • Posted by wiggys 11 years, 4 months ago
              bears and flowers do not use words but somehow they think? I THINK not.
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              • Posted by Kova 11 years, 4 months ago
                I am not speaking of bears. In fact, I am speaking directly from personal experience. I began thinking cognitively at the age of two (that I can clearly recall) and I did not think in words; I thought in concepts, a habit that has continued until this day. Words are the translation of concept to language expression, and I have always revered the ongoing genius of language development. However, even from the time I was a small child, I thought about many topics for which I did not have words. In fact, I have had to invent new terminology to describe many of these newly developed concepts which have arisen and evolved from various trains of contemplation.

                Translation from concept to word format occurs seemingly without effort, as language is so ingrained and practiced within me...but when I ponder deeply on something, I always revert to the super-efficient and naturally direct venue of concept.
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                • Posted by $ 11 years, 4 months ago
                  Thanks for the insight. As often as I have read Rand's "Introduction to the Objectivist Epistemology" and as much as I value it, I always felt that something was missing. Her supposed introspections from (her very own) childhood seemed artificial - and not applicable to my own inner experience. For me, as an infant and child, concepts were always exceptions: this is not that. Later, about age 8 or 9 (third or fourth grade) when we were given dictionaries, and especially when we had our first science classes, I learned to integrate: an elephant is a mammal; Betelgeuse and Antares are red super giants... But originally, on my own, in my own head, my concepts were not at all what Ayn Rand claimed that hers were.

                  Moreover, I believe that individuality is inherent and not everyone does the same thing in the same way.
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                  • Posted by Kova 11 years, 4 months ago
                    I identify with Ayn Rand`s report of her early childhood, her precocious reasoning, at least. How do you suppose her early introspection seemed artificial? I am merely curious to understand your take on this.
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              • Posted by $ 11 years, 4 months ago
                Flowers do not think. Bears may. They have large brains. They are likely not conceptual, but a bear can pretty much figure out what it needs to. They probably have pretty good memories. I would pick a flower for my wife or for my hat, but I would give Old Mister Bruno a lot of clearance.
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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 4 months ago
    TV, video games, movies, etc., are only media no different from books. One could argue that books with their pre-packaged stories diminished imagination that was learned by listening to bards and memorizing poems. While the story was mainly the same, each new telling was a different presentation. Now, everyone knows only the same story, fixed permanently and lacking new imagination. Of course, that is a straw man argument.

    Not only did I see Kirk Douglas as Ulysses, I watched Armand Asanti as Odysseus before I finally read both books in dual language Greek/English from the Loeb Classics Library. But as a child, in the community swimming pool, on my back, I was a trireme and my arms were oars. Imagination works with whatever material it is given.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 11 years, 4 months ago
    I'm surprised no one connected this to the constant entertainment via TV and video games of our youth.

    And how many of our children actually go outdoors and play in the neighborhood with other children?
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    • Posted by wiggys 11 years, 4 months ago
      I am in the outdoor business and I can tell you for fact that the number of kids that fish today is radically down, the number of golfers is down 24 percent since 2002 I read recently. the number of kids camping is down so much that there are FORMER backpacking stores that no longer sell tents sleeping bags or packs. the number of obese kids has increased markedly. thanks to a lack of education that videos in all manner are the problem. when I grew up I NEVER heard of how much money a movie made on a weekend.
      being entertained by this medium requires no thinking.
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  • Posted by flanap 11 years, 4 months ago
    What is "CE?" As in 15th century CE
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    • Posted by $ 11 years, 4 months ago
      CE stands for Common Era, what we call AD (Anno Domini = "Year of Our Lord"). BC - Before Christ - is now BCE "Before the Common Era." You can object to the political correctness, but is it widely used.
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 4 months ago
        Correction.

        I was not consulted as to this change, just as I was not consulted as to the forced adoption of the retardation system... I mean the metric system.

        It is widely used by those hostile to Christianity. Isn't it an odd coincidence that "BCE" has the same exact end date as "BC", and "CE" has the exact same start date as "AD". Not 1945, the year of the atom, not 1776, the year of individual liberty, not 6,000 BC, the earliest known written records, not Abe Urbe Condita, the founding of Rome, not 476 AD, the year the Western Roman Empire fell.

        Just because something has been pushed onto the public is no reason to accept it.

        It's political correctness, and therefore evil.
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    • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 4 months ago
      "Compact Edition"

      As in "Windows CE".

      It's also used sometimes as a PC euphemism for A.D. It's corollary is BCE... which demonstrates the PC stupidity of it.

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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 11 years, 4 months ago
    Are you saying the self is a recent concept or one that's been around since ancient times?
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    • Posted by $ 11 years, 4 months ago
      Yes, CircuitGuy, I believe that our inner self is a recent invention, since the origin of writing, about 8000 years ago. The development of human language from animal calls suggests that we were _conceptual_ creatures before we became _self-aware_. However, note that existing languages have roots no deeper than about 10,000 years ago. Our own Indo-European languages are younger, maybe half of that, from 3000 BCE. The theoretical construct "Nostratic" which supposedly links all of the languages of Africa and Asia including Europe seems to have strong commonality for "bean" and "stone" but not for "me."
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      • Posted by khalling 11 years, 4 months ago
        I thought the origin of writing was found along the Nile just a little over 5400 years ago.
        IF what you say is right, this completely ruins the Clan of The Cave Bear series for me...
        I would think that even up to 25000 years ago, even neanderthals experienced satisfaction and pride in their skills. How else would you get someone to rise to spiritual leader for the group without some basic understanding and processing of emotions however mystically they were interpreted. I do think with the age of "me too" products, youth need to make a conscious effort to tune in by turning everything else off.
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 11 years, 4 months ago
          And what about the cave "paintings" which are merely painted outlines of the hands of people. Surely they must have had a concept of "self", otherwise, what would they have called what was left on the cave wall?
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        • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 4 months ago
          Well, he's completely wrong, anyway. We had a written (albeit primitive) language already when I was born, so that puts it back 23,000 years at least.
          I can't speak for the homo sapiens, although I assume they had written language along a parallel timeline.

          And what do you mean "EVEN Neanderthals"?
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 11 years, 4 months ago
        Part of our brains makes us feel like we're inside our bodies. Even ancient cultures knew some drugs reduce that and make us feel separate from our bodies. I wonder if this is different from the concept of self you're describing.
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        • Posted by johnpe1 11 years, 4 months ago
          CG, I have always felt like a person inside a body,
          limited by it and enabled by it ... and at 65, I have
          found that I have driven parts of it -- like my lungs
          and my legs -- too hard. they are nearing the end
          of their service lives. makes me love advances in
          bio-mechanical and stem-cell research!!! -- j

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          • Posted by $ stargeezer 11 years, 4 months ago
            I second that! At 61 I'm not too sure what I could have done to have lessened the impacts so much, but if I had I wouldn't have enjoyed the ride so much. I guess I could have passed jump school and that jump onto the south beach of Grenada, but how I'd missed that victory after the taste Vietnam (that I got through without a scratch) left in my mouth. The fall from the missile launcher a few years later, Could have passed on, but it really did shape the past 29 years. I've worn out 11 power wheelchairs in that time when my doctor tells me that most guys keep one for 5-8 years - WOW!!! I've bought 8 new vans and trucks - and wore each out before their time so I guess my one M1a1 Body Male type, general issue, deserves to ache in the morning.
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            • Posted by johnpe1 11 years, 4 months ago
              and, since I retired 5.75 years ago, I've broken 4 bones,
              been hospitalized for eating too much fast food (low
              magnesium), sold my '71 harley fx, bought two more
              bikes, a harley and an old honda ('65 dream), and
              now I'm working on wearing out a subaru baja! -- j

              p.s. Keep Up The Good Work, gee-eye!!! ... and
              remember the fellow who skidded in sideways,
              yelling, "Yee-Haaaa, Whatta Ride!"


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