In fact, was asked to run for State Representative in 1999 for our district, went to a Republicrat confab, was asked if I would support "no abortion", said no, it is an individual choice the individual owns responsibility for, and was promptly asked to leave. My wife and I switched to Independent right after...idiots rule.

Yes, I have had the displeasure of living in the Socialist State of Oregon for 20 years. Had 15 before that in semi Socialist (now fully converted) Washington, serving on nuclear engines of destruction in Bangor, Wa.

Indeed, you can find them in the south in a lot of backyards still today. Collectors items if in good shape...old saying was "Biggest rowe since ma caught her tits in the mangle" in England....I think I read it in the Cruel Sea by Nicholas Monserrate, 1950.

You looked it up? I always wondered how it got such an strange name but never bothered to see where it came from.

A right for those invested in the American idea would be my hope but you are correct, ever since we allowed governments small and large to exist it became a privilege. Ideally, if one was invested, behaved themselves, then they could take advantage of that right. The advent of demonocracy made it a right for the unprivileged.

It is clearly the intent of the liberal-progressive movement to create the illusion that democracy is real. It is just a sham necessary for their ultimate goal of the establishment of a new aristocracy ruled buy a self appointed "intellectual elite". The MSM is the official propaganda arm of this movement.

What if one comes to the conclusion that it's all a fraud? I know a guy who thinks that...

wow! . I didn't know about that. . looked it up -- came
from Dutch mangel and late latin manganum. . wow! -- j
.

Yeah, yeah.
Just try to get by without paying it. A man with a calculator in one hand and a gun in the other will be knocking on your door.

Didja ever notice that a large ironing device is called a "mangle?" In their attempt to get the wrinkles out, the Progs usually mangle what they are trying to fix.

I think you know that the Constitution is not a document that allows, but a document that restricts. That's why it is so hated by the Progressives. They cannot abide the restrictions put upon them by the Constitution. The brilliance of the Founders is brightly displayed in that document which if obeyed would keep the state on track. Unfortunately, that's a very big "if."

Voters are defined by government, else all persons within a geographical area under the government, despite the functionality of the their minds or citizenship, would be able to vote.

Voting is doubtless a privilege, and given the way of the world, real voting for genuine candidates and causes is a rare privilege. Like all privileges it must be earned through citizenship and honesty. In other words, no illegal immigrants or felons. Of course, I would take it further and require a test to determine if the voter knows anything about our country.

Are you in Oregon? If so, would love to pick your brain.

It is a responsibility, a small payment on a debt that can`t be paid.

TurboTax owes their existance to income tax law, as do most accountants. I would not expect them to reveal anything that eliminates customers from their market. I do understand your point of view, nick, but we have been put through a lifetime of propaganda so "everybody knows" that FICA is mandatory under law. But it isn't so. It should be one of the list of great lies, like the check's in the mail, etc.

And the State is presumed to somehow have the right of decree, which ought to be rejected as false. No State owns any right to "grant".

I think it has to be "the governed", i.e. if the government is given power over you, you have a right to consent. It doesn't matter whether you are propertied.

Of course, the issue becomes do the 'governed' have the power to grant the government unlimited power over others or are there limitations to mob rule? One would hope it is limited and that they can't simply vote to take others assets.

Jetgraphics has done extensive research on the topic, so don't disregard what he says without doing your own due diligence. Legally Jet is correct. FICA is voluntary and that is very important to the fedgov keeping up the facade. Practically, employers are forced by the thugs at the IRS to be their tax collection agents to avoid being audited and prosecuted for things that are left to the IRS "judgement" by the legislation. Legally, they can refuse but Loretta and Company would legally put them through hell and claim the two things were not in any way connected. Not having an SS number is very inconvenient and the banksters have ensured that is true, but it is not against the law. The peons who administer the law at the low levels will tell you that you must have a SS number, but they do not know any better because they are trained that is the case. Do you own research and you will discover that the scam is very well planned, but like the federal reserve, it is not what it appears to be.

Are "the governed" anyone with a pulse, or only those with skin in the game, like people with property, businesses, skills, etc.? The definition is important.

Here is the text from the 1935 act:
http://constitution.org/tax/us-ss/ss/...

Voting is a privilege granted to citizens and it should be regarded as an obligation. The greatest threats to a free society are ignorance and apathy.

and "we" want to let people vote without identifying
themselves.. . yessir, mangled is an understatement! -- j
.

What you may have been led to believe and what is actually in the law seems to be at odds.

Of course, even Congress enacts laws it has not read, so it is reasonable that most 'informed' Americans have never read American law.

But before you hurl heifer dung, I urge you to visit your county courthouse law library and READ THE LAW for yourself.

It's that "consent" bit that way long ago gave old dino the perhaps quaint notion that it is his DUTY to vote.
No one will do anything if I don't vote. I just plain don't feel right about it