Existence exists, always has existed and always will exist?

Posted by Solver 10 years, 10 months ago to Philosophy
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One way this could be is by infinite time theory. But this also would mean that everything has already happened in every way possible beforehand. Yet we all would be totally obvious that it did.

Another opposing theory is one or more God(s), Infinite immortal all powerful all knowing supernatural being(s), created everything.

SO FOR THIS TOPIC, WHICH IS MORE LIKELY AND WHAT IS YOUR REASONING?
Existence exists, always has existed and always will exist?
Or
One or more infinite immortal all powerful all knowing supernatural being(s) created everything?

(Is it also possible that neither is correct.)


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  • Posted by RobertFl 10 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No, time is a measure of the passing of events (like the expansion of space)
    Do objects move because time exists, or does time exist because objects move?

    [Far out! errrr, take a hit and pass it around. I wanna hear side 2 of Dark Side of the Moon, man!]
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  • Posted by Rozar 10 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Right an infinite amount in an infinite space. That means there could be infinity between the two parallels. With how limited we are in our space observation skills I think you might be jumping to conclusions.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "By definition, the universe is all that exists."
    Then that would mean any God(s) that actually exist would be limited to working inside the confines of the universe.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 10 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I thought the same thing but didn't post it. :)

    It is the same thing, noise, like time, is an irrelevant concept if no one is there to register it.

    The existence of Man gives relevance to a great many concepts that, while they would exist, would have no meaning otherwise.
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  • Posted by Jaysun 10 years, 10 months ago
    we all currently live in a grain of sand on some Titan's beach where he is chilling with his girlfriend
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If the universe were infinite, then we exist in parallel somewhere, in fact we must exist in multiple parallels, and all possible permutations. That's the essence of infinity.

    If time is infinite, then there can be no beginning and no end, thus those infinite parallels could have come into being at any time. Thus, all that ever was and ever could be must exist at the same time.

    If that were the case, then somehow we would have observed such, since there would be an infinite amount of them. Since we haven't, I conclude that there cannot be an infinite amount, thus the universe is finite and time bound.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It may take many googles of years but existence could wait nearly forever (in human terms) while many attempts at creating viable life was occurring.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 10 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I disagree. Time is just a perception and condition. If there were no humans then time would not exist. Time can only be recognized by sentient beings. Without humans, or some other species, time wouldn't be.

    Time has to be measured or recorded by someone for it to have any meaning at all.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 10 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm on my laptop writing my next novel. I can't look at this right now but will when I have a chance later.
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  • Posted by Rozar 10 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Gotcha, I wasn't sure if we were assuming the universe was finite or not. So you're correct if the universe is infinite and that there is an infinite amount of matter in the universe then every permutation currently exists. But you also said that this can be shown to not be true, which is saying you can prove a negative without parameters. I've always thought that to be impossible so I'm curious how you can show that this isn't true.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 10 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'll exaggerate this :

    A man lives 200 years - a finite span.
    Aside from recording his observations for other finite beings to learn from he cannot conceive existence without limit - at least I can't. The entire open ended concept of God is something I have trouble with. Using I AM as the foundation, there had to be, from my human finite perspective, a time when I WAS NOT. TO BE suggests there was a time where NOT TO BE was the condition.

    Again, this is a finite argument placed against something infinite that human minds may not be able to mentally fathom. I'm honest enough to admit that I don't know everything and that not everything can be rational.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Why do you think this universe would have to be infinite? Let's say there were multiple universes but this one collapsed on itself, would existence still exist?
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Because if the universe is infinite and time is infinite, then every permutation already exists. Since it doesn't, there must be a beginning, and hence an end.

    It's the nature of infinity. Infinite time means that there was no start and no end exists, thus all time must exist simultaneously. You cannot have a progression of time unless there is a beginning. An infinite universe means that every conceivable permutation exists somewhere - it's infinite - and exists at the same time.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Because if time and the universe were infinite, then somewhere every permutation exists, it's the infinity paradox.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    True.
    My opinion: If all life was obliterated, existence would still exist and changes would still occur. "Time" would still progress although no life would exist to recognize it. Eventually, new "life" would be created.
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  • Posted by Rozar 10 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm confused on two counts, if time were infinite every permutation would have already existed and exist again, which makes sense, but why would every permutation have to currently exist? Also if that's a premise, how can you prove it isn't true?
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  • Posted by 10 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "If that were the case for the universe, then one must conclude that every possible permutation of existence has already existed, and currently exists."

    In our experience of time, the past is the past, the future the future. Why would every possible permutation currently exist?
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