Executive Order of 3/16/2012 gives Obama the same power as Stalin had.

Posted by strugatsky 5 years, 4 months ago to Politics
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This long-worded executive order is a real shocker, while being unnoticed by the media (of course). It gives the president total control of all aspects of the economy, both business and labor sides, "in peacetime and in times of national emergency." FDR used a similar executive order during WWII, but this is "in peacetime"! These are the same powers that Stalin and Hitler had; how did that ever get by without notice? Are we really done for as a Republic and just waiting for the final crash? This is not fiction, this is really happening!
SOURCE URL: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/16/executive-order-national-defense-resources-preparedness


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  • Posted by  $  jbrenner 5 years, 4 months ago
    We're done for as a republic and just waiting for the final crash. And I ask a question that I asked a few months ago. Should we start hastening the end as the strikers did, or just wait for the end?
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    • Posted by  $  brd76 5 years, 4 months ago
      Haste towards collapse is exactly what both sides' ultimate goal is. On the side of the statist; their end game is to create chaos to get the masses to beg for further government solutions to fix the problems manufactured by the very people who will fix it. On the liberty side; those who think for themselves simply want to be let alone to do so. The conundrum occurs when the statist commits their power over all subjects and any dissent from this power is subject to punishment by thugs with orders to silence all who oppose them. This is how every single country before us has fallen to the statist ideology. The practice of politics is not uninterested in any individual who claims to not be interested in politics. Furthermore politics is the study of the control of mankind, one will submit to this control either willingly or by force. The fact that there exists fewer places for dissent to hide from this in the world is the overarching problem that I am personally having trouble wrapping my mind around. There are just too many useful idiots in this world standing in the way of my right to think, create, and produce without being punished for my virtues.
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      • Posted by  $  jbrenner 5 years, 4 months ago
        Then we need to build a new Atlantis on an island 100 miles west of the Cayman Islands supported by a 20 meter deep reef in the Caribbean plus necessary concrete and steel.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
      Since there's no doubt that more people (and agencies) are reading this than should be, carefully I will say that if the collapse happens 10 or more years from now (inevitably it will happen), there will not be anyone left capable of rebuilding. The people with skills and education will be gone, and the new generation, except for computer skills, is useless. I haven't yet seen a programmer that can make food or clothing, or produce energy. So, if the collapse and a re-birth doesn't happen soon, I think that we will join the third world for good.
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      • Posted by  $  jbrenner 5 years, 4 months ago
        By then, strugatsky, if it happens that precipitously, I and others here in the Gulch will be well on our way to starting a real Atlantis.
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        • Posted by katrinam41 5 years, 4 months ago
          Is there room for an older lady who knows how to grow non-hybrid vegetables, raise chickens, milk a cow, hunt and ride, to name a few of my talents? jbrenner, I may be getting a bit creaky, but I refuse to leave my mind to this encroaching horror. If I can't get to Atlantis, I will become one of the many who retreat into the safely of the mind--and will just hope it stays a safe place until the day I can once more see a country of reason.
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        • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
          There are people experimenting with "Seasteading" and maybe something good will come out of it, although I have my doubts about their approach. They seem to have a limited view by trying to get away from state taxes and regulations, while being fully under the thumb of the federal government. They really should start by buying an island somewhere, completely free and clear of any other country's control. I would think that for the right price some poor country may want to divest itself of a few square miles of useless (to them) territory. Make it a complete capitalist system and see it become a trade center for the world and one of the richest square miles on earth!
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        • Posted by Hiraghm 5 years, 4 months ago
          You know, you really do make me think of the "Falkenberg's Legion" series of books when you say that.

          They take place in the not-too-distant future, where we have interstellar colonies. The U.S. and reformed Soviet Union have created the CoDominium to keep the peace on Earth. In the U.S. you have citizens and taxpayers; the citizens are kept pacified in their welfare islands by generous distribution of a drug called "borloi" grown by slave labor on one or more colony worlds. You have excess population (read: troublemakers) who are shipped out as transportees to the colony worlds. And you have colony worlds who, for the most part, barely have the capability of sustaining themselves with technological help from Earth.

          And Earth is about to destroy itself as the precarious system collapses.

          Falkenberg, first as a CoDominium marine under Admiral Lermontov, then as a mercenary *hired* by Lermontov, travels the various colony worlds to do what little can be done to stabilize them and make them able to survive the inevitable collapse of Earth.

          Everything in the series of stories is driven by the certain knowledge that Earth's destruction isn't a question of "how", or "if", but of "when". And the need to create havens for civilization for that eventuality.

          And when you guys talk about "starting a real Atlantis"... that's what you make me think of.
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  • Posted by UncommonSense 5 years, 4 months ago
    See also EO 11051. Directive 10-289 lives. jbrenner says it all in his first sentence. When the next attack happens, IMHO, it will be the end of the dollar and much of what you and I call "American way of life." will also end. Yep, change you can believe in.
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    • Posted by  $  jbrenner 5 years, 4 months ago
      Thanks for the reminder of "change you can believe in". I had actually forgotten that tripe. On the day after Obama got elected, I demonstrated that it wasn't change I could believe in by investing my "change" in Au. For a while, that WAS change I could believe in. It still hasn't been a bad investment overall.
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      • Posted by UncommonSense 5 years, 4 months ago
        Yes, I too have some Au, Ag and some Cu. The problem is, you can only carry so much of it. Anyone who believes (italics here) nothing (end italics) can move people out of their home & property better take another look at what happened to the well-to-do folks and their property during the Russian revolution, the French revolution, the Cuban revolution & the Chinese revolution. Spoiler alert: they lost it all.

        It is a good idea to be somewhat mobile & be able to pack & carry the most important things in a quick enough time (under 12 hours) & have an alternate place to go, in case America's standing army: the DHS, starts encroaching due to an elistist-manufactured "crisis" e.g., the border with Mexico and your home is in certain danger. Just my .02.
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  • Posted by NealS 5 years, 4 months ago
    Now the MRAP (Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected vehicle) in our cities is starting to make a lot more sense to me. The National Police (disguised as and know to you as Homeland Security) will be here in our cities to protect this administrations right to rule over you. And Eric Holder will uphold it sighting this Executive Order as justification under the law.
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  • Posted by Danno 5 years, 4 months ago
    The reference to "in peacetime and in times of national emergency" is for controlling the Military Industrial complex. So it is not a blanket "dictator" powers list of total control. However, the government's control of production has a big mal-investment effect. To read a great example of this and the bad effects read "Iron Fist" http://www.amazon.com/Iron-Fist-Lives-Ca... as Mercury Marine almost went under during WW2 and Korean War due to the government favoring OMC Motors with less requirements.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
      Any industry and activity can be viewed as part of the military industrial complex, including food production (farms). Do you think that the gong ho SWAT [legal] criminals will stop and debate whether to raid and trash any place of business or residence based on the finer definitions of the law when given an order [let off the leash]?
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      • Posted by Danno 5 years, 4 months ago
        The government at any time can create a false flag event to justify an emergency and then the President can declare dictator powers. Isn't the USA since 2001/09/11 still under Emergency Powers?
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  • Posted by wiggys 5 years, 4 months ago
    this piece of paper references domestic product an awful lot. it is gone from the usa and more is leaving. it matters not, nobody in the highest levels of government from the opposing party will do anything about it, even as we see talk about it because they like it. the downward spiral is moving even faster than I thought.
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  • Posted by MikeRael101 5 years, 4 months ago
    I think Obama is, in the name of "doing something," deliberately ignoring the Supreme Court. I don't believe that his fellow Progressives really yearn for anarchism here. So I suggest we educate ourselves as to precisely what Obama has done wrong, and what he has done right (if anything). Then we should write and talk as often as we possibly can, in as many venues as are appropriate to us as individuals, about impeaching this wayward President.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
      Obama is a student of Alinsky, and Alinsky is Karl Marx of American Progressive movement. Of course, Alinsky himself is no philosopher, but a translator of Marx and Engels for the American market. In any case, his "teachings" in fact do boil down to destroying the capitalist system through anarchy, which will eventually lead to the dictatorship of the proletariat. Obama is not disconnected from the Progressives. And, yes, anarchy is a required step towards their goal. Within that viewpoint, the continual lawlessness of the administration makes perfect sense. It is not a result of incompetence (although in some cases there's plenty of that), but a planned approach towards their goal.
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  • Posted by  $  MAK 5 years, 4 months ago
    As a pilot since 1967 I have always subscribed to the old pilot adage that "if one is going to crash, at least make it look good".

    The corollary to that has always been, "if one is going to crash, do your best and keep flying it through the crash no matter what" - with the idea that it might not be as bad of a crash that way (hope against hope when all you have in some cases is some hope - irrationally or otherwise).

    Other observation/caution/question in this regard may be just as operable - "why die all tensed up in a inevitable crash?"

    Seems to me there is a crash to be - wonder is of what severity? All dire predictions to-date are not necessarily a given - but certainly not desirable in any aspect and to be avoided (IMHO) at ALL COSTS.

    Could be equally true that the crash doesn't kill the whole thing, and we will be able seize the opportunity to take the experiment off-line for some down-time to repair the broken bits, remove the idiots from the cockpit and re-tune the whole thing for the future before we can crank it up up again.

    In any event - crashes are a matter of both routine happenstance and simple stupidity over time given that those that crash tend to become careless and complacent unless there is a very direct and imminent threat to their own pink matter, or that of their loved ones.

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    • Posted by  $  jlc 5 years, 4 months ago
      Hmmm. I actually agree more with MAK than with Strugatsky: Crash early, crash lighter, get it over with and beat the rush!
      I think that saying that there will not be 'any' of a younger generation who are competent an who have a clue is an expression of frustration rather than reality. I think that there are many capable, productive and realistic young people - it is just not a high percentage of that population. I think that many of them would adapt to crisis by adopting useful productive philosophies. One of the things that I have observed with folks who are much younger than I is that they have been raised in a very buffered environment. There is little cause-and-effect in their lives. One has to have an innate philosophical version of 'street smarts' to see through the BS without having had any actual contact with reality. (I occasionally muse that there is nothing wrong with many folk that spending a couple of years working on a cattle ranch or on a farm would not fix: They are actually drifting in a nihilistic universe where nothing they do makes more than a vague theoretical difference.)

      The Depression did not destroy the US, but it did set the philosophical tone for two generations. Perhaps one of the reasons that the Administration fights so hard to mitigate a new depression is that they fear a turnover of philosophy should we run out of bread-and-circuses and have to face reality.

      Jan

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      • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
        So, here's the problem - we are now just as socialist as the Soviet Union was before its demise. In three generations of socialist training, the typical Russian is now, even after 20 years, absolutely convinced that the government must tell them what to do, how to do it and to take care of all. The slave mentality has been bred into the gene pool. Aren't we doing the same?
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    • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
      I would agree with you that normally it is better to postpone the crash, even if it is inevitable, and to minimize the impact. There are, however, other factors. If the crash happens some years from now, there will not be any pilots or mechanics left alive (or young enough to be of use) to get the country flying again. Second, if the crash is mild, many, especially the majority with limited intellects, will not get the point and continue on the same path. Since we are today a fairly close repeat of the Soviet Union (in my opinion), we can use it as an example - they crashed, mildly, and the filth that destroyed the country bid its time and now is back in power, as filthy as ever before.
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  • Posted by teri-amborn 5 years, 4 months ago
    Obedience to force is the only way this will work.
    In the book THE HIDING PLACE, Corrie works for a NAZI-controlled watchmaker who
    Insists on delivering faulty products.
    Considering the youth of today, that's exactly what our government will get.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 5 years, 4 months ago
    You mean he can now command the Red Army?
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    • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
      Essentially, yes. He has been purging the DoD for years, kind of like Stalin did in the '30's, but in a milder way, of the undesirables. Most of the top brass right now are total "yes" men. Our only hope is in the middle ranks - the captains and the majors are still dedicated to the Constitution.
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 5 years, 4 months ago
        There's another hope, you just said it...

        "Most of the top brass right now are total "yes" men."

        Which means they won't be the best and brightest military commanders. We might can hope to get *those* on our side, if necessary.

        Of course, I have little respect for the officer class of our military today. They take their oath, they take their oath... but they don't risk their careers by fulfilling their oath and opposing Obama's unConstitutional occupation of the White House...
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  • Posted by scojohnson 5 years, 4 months ago
    Actually, something similar to this has been done by pretty much every President. This indicates that in times of war, civil unrest, or national response to a catastrophe, he has delegated much of his authority as President to the cabinet he has appointed for certain areas. Sec Def for water resources might be the only one that I turned up at an ear on.

    I'm not an Obama fan by any means, but this is rather typical continuity of operations planning for the federal government, every agency has to have an enacted and viable COOP... certainly he would. I'm sure there was a preceding one, this probably just changes some of the delegation or something.

    The subsidies & payments sections probably empowers him to authorize resource for military black budgets... you can't debate the amount of money we're spending on the next generation completely optically-camoflouged stealth fighter and which contractors are involved and in what cities... but you can authorize a black budget and allow the executive branch to carry out the details outside of public print or scrutiny.

    From a national defense perspective, global warming and the extremely unpredictable weather patterns emerging are the greatest threat at present. Let's say we lost 55% of the food crop with the current floods in the Midwest (very unusual as they are for July). People get a little weird by 48 hours without food, and are basically dying by day 3. In the west, with extreme drought, we're looking at one more year of fresh water reserves remaining before... I don't know, we're drinking pee-water. By about the 4th day without food, people get relatively crazy.

    What happens if a carrot costs $4.00?

    These are real things happening right now.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
      You can use any justification that comes to mind, but the last time that I read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, as I recall, these were explicitly the things that those two documents forbid the federal government to do.
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      • Posted by scojohnson 5 years, 4 months ago
        You have to look at it in the context of something like Katrina. If you live in a rural area, the breakdown of societal norms doesn't really impact your daily life much. Worst case, you can drink the water from the well and grow food in the garden and hunt deer or whatever.

        In a large urban area, such as LA or New York, you can be looking at mass insurrection very quickly. What you say is true, but it ignores police powers and other responsibilities of the government woven into state constitutions, city charters, etc.

        This comes down to the fact that a "well regulated militia"... aka the national guard... doesn't have the resources, the training, or the expertise to resolve a major disaster. The feds also limit themselves via Posse Comitatus Act, and cannot quarter or deploy military forces for police purposes.

        We don't have a "states rights" type of confederation, we have a system where federal powers usurp state law, but respect state law in the absence of specifically-enumerated powers. In a case like this, it is basically "federalizing" local resources and manpower and empowering them with the resources of the 50 states, rather than their own tiny local budgets and manpower.

        The Founding Fathers never envisioned global thermonuclear war, a population of 350 million, or cities of 20 million people living on an earthquake fault, or threats of things like ebola arriving on a 10 hour airplane flight from Africa.

        I'm sorry, but your rather shallow personal liberty argument doesn't respect the needs of protecting human life and property.

        If you had an ebola outbreak in your little town... what exactly is the local sheriff going to do about that? How about the unionized nursing staff? Are you going to hope for the best or would you rather see 300 epidemiology, virology, and bacterial infection specialists trained in containing epidemics fan out and quarantine the town?
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        • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
          So this is your definition of "in peacetime"? And by the way, how well did the federal involvement help during Katrina? - they forcefully and anti-Constitutionally disarmed the law-abiding people so that they were not able to defend themselves against criminals. How well did that work out?
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          • Posted by scojohnson 5 years, 4 months ago
            Desperate people tend to do very stupid things. This is always some vast conspiracy theory, when really, it comes down to the right of the police officer or the national guardsmen to go home and see their own families. The last thing you want is the idiots that didn't bother to adhere to the evacuation order running around with rifles looking for food & water and thinking that canteen the solider has looks pretty good. What now? If you are that soldier, do you fire on an American citizen that is pointing a gun at you?

            Unlike anyone else here, I've been in that situation. I was deployed to Rwanda, and some skinnies were playing with a Russian BMP 20 mm turret and turned and pointed it at the great big C-5 I was sitting in the shade under. In half a second, myself and the three guys I was with had our rifles on those two skinnies, scopes dialed in and ready to fire. I had no problem taking their head off, because I was there, not wanting to be there, but trying to "help" under orders. I wasn't giving my life for that crap.

            Luckily, they turned that turret. If they hadn't, neither of those two idiots would have survived the next 5 seconds.

            You assume that police, fire, and military, sworn to uphold the constitution blindly do whatever some "leader" tells them to do. There has been no evidence of that in American history. The fact that you state and insinuate that is rather obvious that you lack the understanding of the high degree of professionalism that are armed forces and police forces have.

            In the Katrina example you cite, did they permanently imprison people? Did they tear up the Constitution? No. In simple cases of police detainment, it is always stated "I am restraining you temporarily for your own protection and mine". The police officer handcuffs the drunk wife-beater and sits him down on the curb to get the story of what happened. The last thing you want is the upset/irate guy taking a swing at the police officer, and now he's dead because he was drunk, upset, and took a swing at a police officer. In the case of Katrina, how do you tell who stayed around to loot their neighbors, versus the ones that were just too dumb to leave?

            We can have a debate about cell phone privacy, and extreme levels of data collecting, I'll be 100% on your side there. But when it comes to the rights of someone like my son, a police officer, to not be threatened by some a-hole sovereign citizen type, for only doing his job and go home to see his family every night, its something I will not support or ever agree to.

            You "assume" that all people are law abiding citizens. In my experience, that couldn't be farther from the truth. Sometimes its hard to find the good guys in a certain situation.
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            • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
              Well, scojohnson, I see that you have an adult son, so you obviously cannot be very young, but allow me to make a comment that you seem to view the public through the government-designed prism that citizens that can only survive with government help and guidance. Clearly, these “teachings” are not new. Specifically, law enforcement is not the most dangerous profession, by far. Being a cab driver, gas station attendant or liquor store employee is more dangerous than being a cop. Those are facts. I can look up the references if you would like to see them. However, cab drivers don’t wear body armor, nor do they shoot customers that get argumentative. Nor do the courts protect just about any abuse that a gas station attendant decides to dish out upon a citizen, justifiable or not. So, now that we are on the way to establishing the fact that the police are “special” people and deserve more protection (from the law, very often), please tell me just how many law enforcement officers have actually been killed or injured by citizens with guns in their homes, let’s say in the last 100 years? Or are you just making up scary scenarios because being a policeman must be dangerous? And even in cases of emergencies, is there a single case (Katrina or other natural disasters) where a citizen used his rifle to steal food or anything else from another citizen? Or are we making up scenarios again? (I am talking about the US, not about the “skinnies” in Africa; let’s not take the warzone home.)
              So, you think that the police are concerned about the Constitution. Please tell that to SWAT teams that practice on citizens, including toddlers, with flash grenades in their faces, full auto rifle fire against someone that might look like the suspect (but is not) and arresting people for anti-Obama remarks on Facebook. Yes, I would like to hear their view of the Constitution (that is the US Constitution; at this point, I think it would be necessary to point them at the document in question, lest they mix it up with some other departmental instructions).
              During Katrina, they did not permanently imprison people. But they did imprison people. Why is any imprisonment for offenses not committed acceptable? And the weapons that were [illegally] confiscated were not returned. Law enforcement today has morphed into something different than it was ever intended to be. Its purpose is no longer to serve the citizen or attain justice; its purpose is to serve the State and increasingly, as your comment makes it obvious, the police see themselves in a warzone against the citizens. That is very troubling. Perhaps you may want to consider the purpose of law enforcement and whether today’s version fulfills that or not?
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            • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
              And I almost missed an interesting point, scojohnson, - are you writing your own constitution or are you interpreting the US Constitution in the same way as Obama? -- " it comes down to the right of the police officer or the national guardsmen to go home and see their own families." Is this "right" an article in the Constitution that we have all missed? I am aware of rights of freedom and personal property, as codified in the Constitution, but I am not aware of a "right" of police officer or guardsmen to go home to their families, for which you have seemingly traded our other, unalienable rights.
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            • Posted by Hiraghm 5 years, 4 months ago
              "You assume that police, fire, and military, sworn to uphold the constitution blindly do whatever some "leader" tells them to do. There has been no evidence of that in American history."

              Modern Americans are not historical Americans. They're more like the people of Europe... And we know what their history is like.

              "But when it comes to the rights of someone like my son, a police officer,"

              As a person, your son has rights. Police officers have no rights. Your son has the same God-given rights as any person, but "police officer", as the name implies, is an office. Congressmen, Senators, civil servants, etc do not have rights related to their jobs. The have limited powers granted them in order to do their jobs.
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        • Posted by Hiraghm 5 years, 4 months ago
          "I'm sorry, but your rather shallow personal liberty argument doesn't respect the needs of protecting human life and property. "

          "Give me liberty, or give someone else life and property...." doesn't ring as well...
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    • Posted by teri-amborn 5 years, 4 months ago
      Try to stand back as a detached observer of President O.
      This is an administration which creates chaos in order to seize power.
      Then abstract into the future with the chaos scenario which would allow him to implement this plan as a type of "blitzkrieg".
      You'll get it...
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