What are American Values?

Posted by LarryHeart 5 years, 1 month ago to Ask the Gulch
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What are American Values? Can you name them? See Article.link below
Are you convinced that there are no values; only opinions and differing narratives? Is your reality determined by objective facts or by the subjective view of your group?

Do you think we should teach these values?
SOURCE URL: http://02f8c87.netsolhost.com/WordPress/archives/28


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  • Posted by khalling 5 years, 1 month ago
    the concept of "american values" is a collectivist concept. You are on an objectivist site, so your questions are rhetorical here? Also, the link you provided is religious in nature. Man owns himself-derived from the nature of man. No higher authority is needed to legitimize this foundational principle of freedom. I think the founding fathers of the US Constitution understood this implicitly.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 1 month ago
      Ditto that and besides values American Culture what is that? Either way if the first thing we do to fight a war is give up all our rights which just happened whose going to listen?
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      Posted by 5 years, 1 month ago
      @Khaling - Interesting that you think values is a collectivist concept when associated with the word American. What is your logic there? Objectivist values is what? Another collectivist concept? Are there no Objectivist values? I guess you are playing with semantics here and you make no sense.

      Where the hell do you get that a link is religious in nature? The article does not talk about the principle of freedom needing a higher authority. That is a straw man argument. An argument that can be proved to be true but is not the argument proposed.

      Nor is a higher authority necessarily religious or in any way associated with religion. For instance the supreme court is a higher authority than the lower courts. What religion is that associated with? Nature and reality is a higher authority than subjective fantasies.

      How about you go back to school and learn about logical thinking and try not to blow up on trigger words.
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      • Posted by khalling 5 years, 1 month ago
        metaphysics. American "values" are all over the map. 50% or more of americans do not even really want capitalism. Self ownership and independence? ha! They want a govt to tell them what their values are.
        for anyone clicking through to the link, one of the first things you see is that "american values" are rooted in the Judeo/Christion religion. Objectivists reject religion, so they would never say virtues are derived from a "higher authority" or a religious doctrine. I am not taking "transcendent" out of context from the article you linked to. and I will take your advice to "go back to school" under advisement
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          Posted by 5 years, 1 month ago
          One of the first thing you see is a trigger word for you I guess. What it says is this "This foundation is applicable whether you are Jewish or Christian or Atheist, have an alternative lifestyle, sexual orientation or spiritual practice or are unallied. Our common foundation depends on the Bedrock… not the Bedroom… Judeo-Christian American Values."

          It does not say RELIGION. Is anyone here awake? Does anyone here not have a closed mind? Objectivism is your religion if you can only muster a rejection of anything associated with a Religion. Transcendent does not mean a religion related GOD. Unless you make it so in your mind.

          I guess there is no point discussion in the Gulch. You are Objectivist collectivists that can't think outside of your own group think. Ayn is rolling over in her grave. Do you think that she would say that she is all knowing and you need to follow her thoughts or that there is no other way of thinking that is also legitimate?

          Of course we still are not having a discusiion about the article just about your own values and how they reject other values. You too are of the crowd that sees reality through subjective images formed in your mind. The main principle of Objectivism is to face reality and not hide in your own world, even if that world is Objectivist. .
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          • Posted by khalling 5 years, 1 month ago
            Larry,
            We are just having a discussion. I read through the link. I disagree on many points. That is NOT collectivist, that is my own personal opinion. I shared it with you. You get angry kinda quick. You can take your own temperature of the site and see that we have many religionist producers. Lively discussion is what this is all about!
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            • Posted by 5 years, 1 month ago
              Then let us discuss the many points you do not agree with and not ignore those in favor of running scared from the mention of Religion.

              In that respect....because, as you say, 50% of Americans have been schooled in a system contrary to free enterprise and independence, is all the more reason to codify a value system that promotes individual rights and responsibilities.

              Firstly there needs to be in agreement that values are necessary. The reason is that we are not born with internal programming of what is good or bad and the only way we get those is through outside standards. If the standards are in conflict with individual rights and responsibilities or if standards themselves are demeaned we get chaos, crime, hatred and corruption.

              Do we agree that some sort of standard is necessary, and then we can proceed to what standards are best to achieve the results we are looking for in people and society?
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              • Posted by khalling 5 years, 1 month ago
                "in favor of running scared from the mention of Religion."
                This is false. I enjoy many of the Gulch members who are religious. Pointing out a tenet of Objectivism is hardly "running scared." There are many posts on point in this forum explicitly laying out the virtues and values (though not all inclusive) of Objectivism. I agree with some of your points, but my whole point in commenting was to show where I disagreed. I urge you to read The Virtue of Selfishness. By all means, if you reject some or all of Objectivism, enjoy your time here, but you will encounter push back. Also, you are snarky to the person who has the most points on the board. I'd think about that a little. I am all benevolent here.
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                  Posted by 5 years, 1 month ago
                  Wow. Still beating the same drum. And yet another false assumption of rejecting Objectivism. I opened the discussion up and all you can still do is rehash. Can you get off of this one point. And I did read her books, You just seem to be hard headed and rigid in your refusal to get off one point, no matter that you score big points.

                  So if you want to discuss, then please stop and get religion, or whatever impression exists in your mind as to what constitutes religion out of your mind, because it is not about that. Otherwise we are stuck on the wall inside your mind.
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 1 month ago
        You missed it Larry. he said the concept of 'american values' is a collective concept. Didn't say there were no individual values nor that American Values were worth anything. Most Americans aren't objectivist anyway.How is the subject religious in nature. Go back to your history book the nation was founded by religous collectives and their beliefs always included a God at the top of the heap. The difference was an attempt to separate religion from secular activities or secular religion and provide a degree of religious freedoms. And for those who argue religion cannot be government you not only fail to understand Islam but you forget the Catholic Church. The fouonders put natural law in all of their writings and then on Sunday went to church.
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        • Posted by 5 years, 1 month ago
          If only people would READ the article and not pontificate merely on comments there might actually be a discussion about what the ARTICLE says and an answer related to it and the question asked.
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 5 years, 1 month ago
    Any phrase as nebulous as “American values” is bound to have different meanings to different people, and in different times. Independence and personal liberty have been considered defining American values since the American Revolution. Racial segregation was an “American value” well into the 20th Century. Ayn Rand promoted individualism as an “American value” in the 1940s with her article “Textbook of Americanism”. http://laissez-fairerepublic.com/text...
    (For the background on how she came to write this little-known article, see https://fee.org/articles/textbook-of-... ). Today “diversity” and “inclusiveness” would probably be promoted by many as “American values.” There are simply too many viewpoints (some contradictory to each other) to make it worthwhile to tie a specific set of values to a national entity.
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